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Post by clunes on Oct 6, 2023 8:11:52 GMT
And therein lies the problem - trying to find ‘value’ in the current market is (I’m finding) tricky. M4s are a chunk cheaper than the Lexus but far more common.
BMW 8-series are probably the best value in the market. Under 40k for a lightly specced 2019/20 840i/d seems decent. I’ve no idea on the space these offer relative to something like the Lexus but I expect high quality and plenty of performance.
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Post by Martin on Oct 6, 2023 8:16:44 GMT
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Post by theotherct on Oct 6, 2023 9:00:25 GMT
I test drove a Lexus RC in my search too. It felt a little heavy and a little lazy to me, from reading around you have to learn how to get the most out of the autobox. It works if you want to sit back and relax or if you are really pushing on but has some limitations if you want to make spirited progress. I'm sure once you are used to it, it makes sense but in my drive there were a couple of occasions where there were noticeable pauses and an uncalled for kick down. Of course, it could have been user error but I'd already gone in worried that the gearbox would spoil the drive for me.
If you have the time this is a good round up of the RC (nearly 40 minutes long)
Everything else I liked but prefer the ISF in terms of exterior looks. In fact, driving the RC I wished I was in the position to buy the facelifted ISF I saw advertised during covid for £18k, the facelifts are rare - advertised today it would be ten grand more.
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Post by clunes on Oct 6, 2023 10:47:43 GMT
Great feedback - appreciated.
I'd estimate that 90% of my driving is sit back and relax - mainly due to the roads (condition as well as traffic) and having something relaxing/quiet & (relatively) comfortable is important as a daily driver. I do not want to sacrifice every day usability and comfort for that last 5-10% when really going for it though what you call spirited driving is probably my default when I do get the chance (I'm not one for smoking oversteer around every roundabout).
That said, a lazy/confused gearbox - whether mooching around or not - isn't a good thing so I will keep an eye on that. I've seen/read various reports that contradict each other when it comes to the gearbox so what you say about learning to get the most out of it is interesting.
I'm pretty sure Chris Harris mentioned the gearbox as being pretty good/responsive for on road driving (though he found the whole car poorly suited to the track due to weight/gearing but good on road and speculated it would be a 'grower') but others have mentioned how slow the manual changes can be and, with 8 ratios, it can get frustrating!
I hope to take a quick look later this afternoon - kid duties depending.
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Post by clunes on Oct 6, 2023 10:49:51 GMT
They are great value when compared to list price and some of their competition - but it's a price bracket I am not comfortable operating in  |
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Post by Tim on Oct 6, 2023 10:50:19 GMT
Does it have the ubiquitous ZF 8 speeder?
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Post by clunes on Oct 6, 2023 11:04:59 GMT
Does it have the ubiquitous ZF 8 speeder? Apparently not. according to Google its: Toyota AA80E 8-speed transmission built by Aisin AW |
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Post by Martin on Oct 6, 2023 11:22:06 GMT
They are great value when compared to list price and some of their competition - but it's a price bracket I am not comfortable operating in It wasn’t a serious option, just reinforcing the point that the 8 series gets closer to passing the value test. |
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Post by theotherct on Oct 6, 2023 11:31:01 GMT
Does it have the ubiquitous ZF 8 speeder? Apparently not. according to Google its: Toyota AA80E 8-speed transmission built by Aisin AW I've read it's programming was influenced by trying to avoid an additional US tax relating to emissions or consumption. So that might be the issue. It is an exaggeration/disservice to say it has an 'economy mode' and 'sport mode' which it can unexpectedly move between but can't think of a better way of articulating it. It doesn't have the same feel as the ZF 8 which is just unnoticeable - in a good way. |
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Post by clunes on Oct 6, 2023 16:01:20 GMT
Well, A had a short poke around and unaccompanied drive earlier and came away pretty impressed to be honest. Looks - so subjective and every time I see the car in pictures it looks awkward but it's very different (to my eyes) in the metal. The proportions look a lot better in person and the details show - even in the fairly plain (but nice) grey paint. Interior - again - pictures don't do it justice (seems to be the case with all cars) but there's no doubting the build quality - almost everything feels superbly solid and some nice touches of Alcantara etc around the cabin. The seats are lovely - lovely to see, beautifully soft to touch and very comfortable with a lot of adjustment - getting a decent driving position is easy. The design is going to be marmite - and perhaps it's my age growing up with Japanese sports cars being a big thing but I liked it and it felt great. The dials especially are a nice touch. Infotainment - only had a short play and it was whilst driving - I can see why it gets bad press but some of the comments you hear are totally OTT. Yes, iDrive is (much) better but there are still some physical buttons and navigating the screen via touchpad isn't all that bad (unless you are on a bumpy road then all bets are off). I don't know if this had speech recognition/control but I've heard Lexus do a decent job of that also! Kit - plenty of stuff - not a lot more I could really want/need Driving - Far more grown up than I imagined - firm but very well controlled, didn't feel that heavy at all, good turn in, plenty of grip, rotated well and handled bumps very well - rounded off the worst of the road with little tyre/wind noise. In Normal the gearbox is reluctant to change down - but in Sport + I had no issues - using the paddles (proper metal I think) was nice and whilst not whip-crack fast for day to day I didn't hit any awkwardness in that regard. Handling (didn't go nuts) but as above - turned in well and rapid changes of direction were handled well - though this is not chuckable like the Clubman JCW of course and probably where options like the M4 really set themselves apart. Noise - quiet, relaxed, gentle in normal driving - until you open the taps and it produces a gorgeous V8 bark - no questioning the engine is the strongest part of the package for is character. Ok - it's not super fast - certainly not in normal mode but once the revs rise it's more than quick enough for most roads - and it pulls properly hard at the top end. Overall I really liked it. It also fits my weird personality of being a bit different / rare and you don't see many. It might convey an 'old man' image but I'm mid 40's for gods sake  Seriously though - that doesn't bother me and I think it's the type of car that won't draw too much attention. Overall - a lot to like and think about |
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Post by PetrolEd on Oct 6, 2023 16:26:17 GMT
Get it bought!
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Post by Martin on Oct 6, 2023 16:31:59 GMT
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Post by theotherct on Oct 6, 2023 22:53:15 GMT
+2 The opportunity to run a n/a V8 as a daily isn't going to get any easier! |
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Post by Alex on Oct 6, 2023 23:05:56 GMT
That does give you a lot to think about. It sounds like an awful lot of car for the money and I do get the impression that Lexus put a lot of thought into the development of the car so it's rather a shame it wasn't the sales success it perhaps deserved to be. Certainly M4s are almost ubiquitous in comparison but they don't get an aspirated V8 which is a good reason why decent examples of the E9x M3 are becoming increasingly sought after.
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Seriously though - that doesn't bother me and I think it's the type of car that won't draw too much attention.
