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Post by alf on Nov 3, 2023 17:13:33 GMT
I had a bit of good news with this. I had no history with the car, despite the selling dealer claiming it was "FSH" and they had seen the paperwork - somewhere. They have now found and posted through the service book and MOT receipts from the previous owner, and its good news. It had had two previous owners, but feels mint/enthusiast owned to me. The previous owner had it for 3 of the 4 services it has had, and they used HWM in Walton on Thames for the servicing - they were an official Alfa dealer for a few years from 2017, and remain an official service partner. But they are also an Aston Martin and Caterham dealer, among other enthusiast brands, and a race team. And one of the only official Alfa servicing places you ever hear good things about within the QF community (indeed they sometimes put off non-QF Giulia owners by saying they stick to high end stuff - about the only poor reviews I've seen of them - so I'm guessing they know how to charge. So this is good news. I aso checked out the dates on the tyres (still nonplussed that it has GY Assymetric fronts and Supersports rears) and they are from a set put on together, less than a year ago. Still odd unless they wanted the better wet performance of the Asym fronts and traction of the rears?
What I'm really hoping is that the 4th service was done to plan, as its a biggie with the spark plugs (presumably made of unobtanium and unicorns from the prices), coolant, drive belts and other bits done, its circa £1400 even from a specialist, if nothing else needs doing. I suspected that the car (wanting a service soon at about 40k miles on the OBC) may have only had 3 services, stretched out. If its had the 4th already, and it was done by a proper dealer, I should be in mere £500 territory for the next 3. It was done in Jan this year as well, so hopefully wasn't part done by someone about to sell the car, or the usual "we serviced it sir" so-called service often done by car dealers when selling one.
Good that it had the same owner for most of its life, as the owner prior to me as well, and they they seem not to habe skimped on anything. The Porsche was the same (and also came from Surry, weirdly!). Maybe I'm buying the same guy's old cars??
Oh and I basically beached it on someone's front lawn near here last night, turning round in a tiny road as some plonker had blocked it. It was dark and the "drive" I though I reversed onto turned out to be a flooded front lawn, ever so slighty sloping, and I had a hell of a job getting away again, and ruined their lawn (its not a loved-looking house but I may still go there this weekend and offer to pay to re-turf the grooves in their lawn!). Using experience of the BMW in snow, I went gently back a few times to get traction to go forwards again, and crabbed it sideways so I was not pointing straight up the (very very slight) slope. I was expecting some chav to come out of the house (that I had nearly reversed into) and knife me or something. If I do go and fess up I will not be telling them where I live! It was a salutory reminder of just how easily it would get stuck in snow, I may have to reconsider my no-winter tyres decision.
Otherwise it remains highly refined and not the fire-breather I expected, though a drive in the (3.0 V6TDi) A5 recently showed me how you just get used to stuff. I thought the light Alfa steering reminded me of the A5, and the throttle response in town driving was similar. Actually the A5 is laughably slow by comparison on the same light throttle, it felt like I had engaged some sort of "triple ECO" mode. And the steering is insanely slow compared to the Alfa, and lacking feel - like an old Landie, you can move the wheel loads at low speed with no directional reaction. So the QF is maybe somewhat more focused than I had credited it with, I had only driven it and the Boxster recently before taking the A5 to Gatwick...
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Post by alf on Dec 12, 2023 17:27:09 GMT
Having had a bit of a one-off windfall at work (i.e. some quarterly comission for once) I went for winter wheels/tyres, my favorite wheels with 6mm+ Michelin Alpin Sport PA4's all round from the owners group. I fitted them at the weekend, crippling myself as usual but I do like to do it myself and know I can, and also poke around the wheel arches and brakes and clean it up. Pic below shows the new one on the front and the old rear, they are the same sizes but actually the optional wheels I had as summers are a LOT lighter, even if I prefer the look of these grey teledials they usually come with. These ones are in immaculate condition, the tyres are dated 2018 - I can't imagine how someone used them for that many winters (even of low mileage) and never got a single mark on them!! I went out for a nice 50 min drive at lunch yesterday (repeated in the Boxster today) as neither had been used much, both had low batteries and rusty discs from all the sideways rain. This is by far the least compromised winter tyre/car combination I have used, the PA4's are known to be quite a stiff, relatively summer-feeling tyre, just not quite as good in deep snow as things like Bridgestone Blizzaks. Its also about the only winter tyre in the OE sizes. The car is so "on the nose" compared with the heavier jag, that feeling of having to nurse it into a corner on winters is gone. Indeed the QF is so pointy I keep expecting the rear to slip, but it hasn't yet (I'm still being careful!). It was a nice drive - I was getting annoyed that only in "Race" mode (with the dampers only available in hard or medium, and all TC and ESC off) does it make any noise. It's a bit much for winter conditions, it does things like shift down to keep the revs really high under braking. In the next mode down - "Dynamic" - if you select manual shifting (a pleasure with the massive alloy Ferrari-alike paddles) and hold the revs a bit higher than the auto setting, it sounds great, and the damping defaults to medium but slacks off to soft with the (again Ferrari-esque) damping button inside the mode selector. That's then a great way to tackle a wet B-road with tyres you are unfamilar with, and I had a great time. It just lopes past traffic that probably thinks its going fast, and is always a lot quicker when you look down, than you think. When repeating the drive in the Porsche today, it was a lot busier and I did not overtake cars doing the same speed as the ones I followed yesterday (similar SUV's being driven normally until I caught them up then in a weirdly showy manner of using all the road when they saw a quick car behind). It seemed too risky with all the water about, and while its great fun I'm always a lot slower whenever I look down - one time in the Porsche I was doing 56 when I looked down worried I might be doing the 80+ I kept creeping up to, unknown, in the QF. Older cars can be a lot of fun without risking your license so much, I do need to get the QF to Germany! The weather can do what it likes now. I'm still a bit twitchy about how much I paid for the car, and its potential to ruin me/be a slow PITA to fix if anything goes wrong, but getting stranded in snow is less of a likelihood now and I can take it to Germany in the winter if need be... I'm hoping the Jag winter set sells on Ebay now, the wheels alone (recently refurbished in black and mint) are worth the £1200 I'm asking...
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Post by Martin on Dec 12, 2023 17:40:39 GMT
The winter wheels do look good! It’s strange that it doesn’t have an exhaust button alongside bumpy road/comfort, but are you saying the valves open at higher revs anyway and you get full noise? All had exhaust buttons, but that was the case with the M Sport Exhaust on the 750 and the sports exhaust on both Porsches, but the Panamera isn’t quite the same as when the button is pressed. I have it on all the time, it’s too quiet without it and increases the contrast when it switches from electric to petrol power.
Our Boxster always felt like you were going faster than you were, especially with the roof down (as it was more time than not), great for enjoying driving at non licence losing speeds,
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 12, 2023 18:47:35 GMT
It’s weird, the grey ones look bigger.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 13, 2023 15:58:30 GMT
For me, it's no contest. Those gorgeous teledials walk it all day every day. Just heaps better looking (IMNVHO) - being a shallow sort of soul that would matter more to me than the weight difference...plus I am partial to a dark silver/grey finish.
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Post by alf on Dec 14, 2023 11:51:04 GMT
They are much nicer, and do look bigger... Martin there is no exhaust button no, its attempting to be minimalist compared with the 199 different settings German cars seem to offer you. In eco and normal (which may as well be the same thing) they never open, in dynamic they seem to open just before 4k revs - the issue in auto being that it likes to use the (prodigious) torque even when pressing on, so unless being a hooligain in the way you rarely can on typical winter roads they'll never open. To open them fully all the time you need to be in Race mode and give up all electronic assistance, hence why a few aftermarket offerings offer a remote switch for it! I'm not interested, its loud enough in dynamic if you hold the revs, for sure.
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Post by Tim on Dec 14, 2023 12:08:53 GMT
I actually like the other ones more but that's probably because they're silver. Maybe I'd prefer the teledials of they weren't grey.
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Post by PG on Dec 14, 2023 15:01:35 GMT
I actually like the other ones more but that's probably because they're silver. Maybe I'd prefer the teledials of they weren't grey. For me too, Teledials in silver would win. Bit in grey they sort of "disappear" too much, if that makes sense as a fashion statement on alloy wheels?
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Post by Martin on Dec 14, 2023 15:16:51 GMT
They are much nicer, and do look bigger... Martin there is no exhaust button no, its attempting to be minimalist compared with the 199 different settings German cars seem to offer you. In eco and normal (which may as well be the same thing) they never open, in dynamic they seem to open just before 4k revs - the issue in auto being that it likes to use the (prodigious) torque even when pressing on, so unless being a hooligain in the way you rarely can on typical winter roads they'll never open. To open them fully all the time you need to be in Race mode and give up all electronic assistance, hence why a few aftermarket offerings offer a remote switch for it! I'm not interested, it’s loud enough in dynamic if you hold the revs, for sure. Interesting. Still strange you can only have full noise when in Race. There’s nothing wrong with having choice. Too much choice could be an issue, but not if you can save it to a preset like the BMW M buttons. However, a well thought through Comfort / Sport / Sport Plus (or whatever a manufacturer wants to call the settings) plus an individual mode should be a minimum. Being able to soften off the suspension and open the exhaust flaps easily is what I’d want and using a button, not buried in a screen. Mine doesn’t have a separate sports exhaust button unlike other Porsches (just in the car menu on the screen), but it is on all the time in Sport/Sport Plus and I’ve set the programmable steering wheel button to manually switch it on when in Hybrid (which is comfort). You can also use voice control, but I use it all the time so it’s better on a button on the wheel. Does it really have an Eco mode or do they call it something Italian to lessen the impact?
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Post by Andy C on Dec 14, 2023 23:10:33 GMT
I’m pretty sure you can have the exhausts open in comfort or normal on the facelift QF
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Post by Roadrunner on Dec 16, 2023 11:17:33 GMT
Was going to comment on the comedy ride height, then I spotted the jack...
Always liked teledials and always will.
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Post by alf on Dec 20, 2023 9:57:45 GMT
I've done quite a lot of driving over the last couple of weeks and - apart from learning the niceties of its on the limit behavior - I'm fully bedded in with it now. The winter Michelins are by far the least compromised winter tyre for normal driving that I have used - they retain some steering feel and have good grip in all conditions, letting me push the car more confidently in typical winter conditions. I'm very much enjoying it, especially having ventured into the manual paddles (which I rarely used on the Jags). Dynamic and paddles, keeping the revs higher to open the secondary exhausts up, is the way to go, with the option of soft or mid damping being perfect... Martin - being an Alfa from Mito onwards it has the "DNA" system so indeed "Eco" is in fact "advanced economy".... It might as well not be there for all the differences with "Normal". The wording of "Dynamic" annoys be as well, although it colours part of the info screen between the dials differently in the different modes it displays "D" for drive (gearbox) in the top left of the screen when driving. So I often think I'm in Dynamic when I'm not. Small things eh! One of the little touches I like the most is being able to pull back on the right hand gear paddle to select "drive", you only need to touch the gear stick for park or reverse (I would prefer left hand paddle for reverse when stationary but they have not gone that far). Its very cool to start a trip by pulling back on the nice metal paddle to select drive
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Post by alf on Jan 9, 2024 11:21:14 GMT
I booked its first service at specialist AHM for the end of the month. I'm having the battery changed for a bigger one - it starts fine but the demister and start stop never work. I'm going to get the brakes done all round as well - they're clearly shagged from looking at the disc wear, the battery and brakes are original - 6 years old. I don't see the point of doing what I did on the second XFR - eking out the life of the brakes, and battery, then changing them all round half way through my ownership and having them mint whenever I pass it on - I'd rather have them all mint and nice for my whole ownership. I'm very light on brakes so even if I keep it 5 years, I'd expect the discs and possibly pads to make it. I'm anticipating somewhere in the region of £3k for the service/brakes/battery, and that's not the "big" one that's done every 4th service (every 9k miles or year). Ouchy. And that's if AHM don't find any horror shows of stuff not done by the Alfa dealers, I had a chat with them and they had plenty to say about main dealers not doing things they were supposed to - often they see QF's around the age of mine that have never had the brake fluid done for example, with all the bleed nipples seized up. On top of the car purchase, and the winter wheels/tyres, this is going to have to go on a credit card for now. The main dealers charge about 400/600/400/1400 as a start point for each repeating sequence of 4 services and the start point from AHM is actually slightly more, as they do more work each time - work they deem necessary, with far more QF experience than any of the main dealers. On the positive side the engine in the QF is def 3/4 of the 488/California one, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F154_engine - this is an epic engine that has won loads of awards, and has a good rep even at high mileages. Nice to confirm the lump is genuinely that exotic! And I'm enjoying driving it so much I'm finding reasons to, all the time, its a long long time since I've felt that way about a car...
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Post by Tim on Jan 9, 2024 12:46:07 GMT
Have you had any of the typical Giulia electrical issues?
A mate has a 2020 200BHP petrol version and after going through a pothole on the way to visit us had a Christmas tree of lights on the dash. This repeated when he started up to go home and at various times thereafter. Initially he thought it was either the sub-standard original battery or rain related and spent some time looking into that and was then advised it was a wheel speed sensor (offside front). He eventually discovered there's a big multiplug somewhere in front of the driver and one of the wires leading into it was a bit short and barely making any contact - a simple bit of minor rewiring seemed to fix all the issues.
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Post by Martin on Jan 9, 2024 12:52:22 GMT
Completely agree with you on your point about not stretching things out not getting all the benefit yourself. I had the same conversation with my eldest about buying new front tyres and getting an alignment done on his car, they will need replacing in the next six months anyway, so buy them now and have the best tyres through the winter (the rears are pretty new).
Just the thought of having to put something on the credit card makes me feel uncomfortable, I hope you have an excellent sales month!
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Post by alf on Jan 9, 2024 16:50:12 GMT
Have you had any of the typical Giulia electrical issues? A mate has a 2020 200BHP petrol version and after going through a pothole on the way to visit us had a Christmas tree of lights on the dash. This repeated when he started up to go home and at various times thereafter. Initially he thought it was either the sub-standard original battery or rain related and spent some time looking into that and was then advised it was a wheel speed sensor (offside front). He eventually discovered there's a big multiplug somewhere in front of the driver and one of the wires leading into it was a bit short and barely making any contact - a simple bit of minor rewiring seemed to fix all the issues. I mean I sort of want to whisper this, but (even though I know my battery is sub par) I have had...... nothing! The only things that were not my ignorance, were the headlights being too high, which I sorted, and occasional clonking from the rear at vey low speeds on very bumpy roads - probably the ARB droplinks but I wonder if it had sat at the dealer a few weeks, as even with limited mileage, that's gone. I don't know if I'm lucky, or someone de-snagged the car already, or the issues are overplayed. Generally the Giulia QF bunch seem content with few recurring issues other than high standard running costs from what I can see, it sounds like there were some early on, but sorted (fuel pumps, short wiring looms, that sort of thing). The rest is... very un-Alfa. The windows shoot up and down Audi-style rather than the anaemic Jag style, there is no wind noise, all the reactions to buttons are instant (nothing has ever needed the three presses to work the Jag cruise control or volume sometimes wanted). Weird eh? Giuliettas have a very poor rep, maybe they got their arses in gear for the Giulia. I await AHM's report with interest, but like Martin said I'd rather spend now, I'd like to keep it 5 years like I did the XFR. Then get a newer one if I can afford it With the XFR I regretted not doing the batteries and brakes earlier, and was pleased I did a full set of tyres almost as soon as I got it. Martin its also my 50th in early Feb and I'm going to Spain for a few days, that'll be on the credit card as well. Good job work is going well - all that fleet electrification planning will hopefully pay off over the next few years
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Post by Tim on Jan 10, 2024 8:49:37 GMT
It sounds good from that. Actually 2 of my mates have Giulias - both red, one a 2 litre petrol and the other a 2.2 diesel. It's been mentioned that really somebody in the 'group' should get a red QF to complete the set The diesel one is a 2017 car with 85k miles and it looks and feels as good as the much newer petrol one. They were both a bit of a surprise to drive after stepping out of the 430 with much more compliant suspension setups but managing not to feel wallowy. I'd be a bit wary of running a QF and it feels a bit disappointing that there's not a multi-cylinder engine between the higher powered 2 litre petrol and the QF. Having said that I was ogling M4s so maybe I should go and polish my Alfisti badge and grow a pair!
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Post by alf on Jan 10, 2024 11:19:13 GMT
Indeed you should! I mean the parts prices are crazy but in line with Audi RS ones, and "M" ones are not going to be much less. This was my look-back just now, parking it after getting some food bits. Does that help
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Post by Tim on Jan 10, 2024 15:52:17 GMT
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Post by alf on Jan 29, 2024 11:07:27 GMT
It's in AHM, for new brakes all round, a battery, a service, and doubtless some other things they find (the rear ARB droplinks at least I suspect). They sounds like they are to the QF worls what an OPC is to the Porsche world in that they fully go over the car, blast air through all the multitude of radiators, clear leaves and crap out, check/update the software in all the subsystems, etc - their verdict on it will be interesting, I feel like I did when I first took the Boxster to the local well regarded specialist I use for that. Like then, I have no concerns, but I'm not poking around under it with a spanner. This is the loaner, a 2019 1.4 (I'm guessing NA) petrol manual Tipo. I didn't realise there even was a modern Tipo, it clearly sells little! I have very little to say about it really, its not a horrible thing but not pleasant to drive in the way cooking Fords are. The brakes in particular are crazily light, the gearchange loose and floppy and inside is a weird mishmash of modern buttons/screen and horrific cheap looking plastic, I'd rather the old buttons, no touchscreen, and nicer materials personally, and that's certainly how posterity will view it:
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 29, 2024 12:49:19 GMT
I had no idea what that was. Can’t remember ever seeing one.
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Post by Martin on Jan 29, 2024 13:48:53 GMT
I guessed what it was (helped by assuming it was Italian) but can’t remember the last time I saw one. Just had a look on Autotrader and there are nearly 300 of that shape for sale, can’t be any in private ownership! It’s cheap to buy, they start from under £5k and 3 year old cars are c£10k.
Fingers crossed for a reasonable bill on the Alfa.
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Post by alf on Jan 29, 2024 14:01:44 GMT
Fingers crossed for a reasonable bill on the Alfa. Thanks. I mean the brakes and batteries on the Jag were £2500 and that was from a small local garage, AHM have higher sights than that, and Alfa parts prices are a lot higher............... So "reasonable" will be a relative thing, I think! Assuming its at least £3k odd, I just hope they find nothing else majorly wrong with it...
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Post by PetrolEd on Jan 29, 2024 14:13:14 GMT
Fingers crossed for a reasonable bill on the Alfa. Thanks. I mean the brakes and batteries on the Jag were £2500 and that was from a small local garage, AHM have higher sights than that, and Alfa parts prices are a lot higher............... So "reasonable" will be a relative thing, I think! Assuming its at least £3k odd, I just hope they find nothing else majorly wrong with it... Whats the mileage on the Alfa? Is it normal for pads and disks at this stage or was there other issues with the disks?
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Post by alf on Jan 29, 2024 15:51:39 GMT
It's 40k/6 years exactly, the discs are original and it looks like the pads were done one time. That seems pretty reasonable to me for a car this quick! I think on all similar cars it mostly comes down to driving style how long they last. They seem good actually (difficulty judging a stop in slow traffic from fly-by-wire aside). Much more feel and a firmer pedal than the Jag brakes, and while the Jag's when this worn were doing that weird "ping ping" thing on turning (that the garage could never diagonse) and starting to vibrate and feel a bit ropey on big stops, the Alfa's at a similar level of wear feel like new brakes - there is no juddering or noise, loads of power and feel, no squealing - considering what the discs looked like its quite amazing! See the lip on this, from when I put the winter wheels on (as with the Jag I will now revel in having shiny metal under there for a bit). They have called now, no issues overall - brakes do need it and battery was borderline (I want it changed for the bigger one), just a handful of small things and plenty of software updates. The scuttle was changed (there were some leaks on the early cars where the water runoff at the bottom of the windscreen could flow into a pipe that ended up in a footwell) so it looks like time was taken on it... They seemed quite suprised this was done. This is a good sign.
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Post by PG on Jan 31, 2024 17:16:51 GMT
So, after that is all done, will "the Alf" (or at least a decent fraction thereof) be making a pecuniary measurement comeback?
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Post by alf on Jan 31, 2024 20:05:21 GMT
So, after that is all done, will "the Alf" (or at least a decent fraction thereof) be making a pecuniary measurement comeback? Errr, yes. Basically, it will. They had the car three days in all. The good news was they like it, it drives well and is in good nick, it didn't even need the rear ARB drop links doing. The bad news was that it did need the brake pads and discs all round and the parts prices are obscene (well over £2k ex VAT). And apparently they don't fit themselves! I was also given the option of quite a lot of small bits, and - intending to keep the car - chose it all. The battery. All the various subsystems were on original software and updated (takes ages). Brake bleed nipples (which corrode) changed to stainless ones, various little rubber boots and drain tubes and so on that are peanuts to buy, a pain to fit, but avoid issues later. For example the scuttle was the newer one, but needed to be taken off to fit the even newer drain tube underneath. So yes, a lie down was needed. The actual service part, was £565, if I didn't need the rest - hopefully next time that's it. They feel it should be. And it drives wonderfully, the low speed brake difficulties are way better, some of the dash and menus are different as per the later software, the start stop works (and is as unobtrusive as in the Jag). At the moment, work is good, both my flats have tenants, I can afford it. But the sheer amount I have spent on the car, the winter wheels, the ceramic coat, now this, means I'm a little paranoid driving it. I'll get none of this back if T-boned at warp speed by some f***er in a BMW as nearly happened on Saturday (see "villains") and they are nicked so often I wish I'd taken the gap insurance. Part of my financial reasoning in buying it was maybe not needing the Porsche, but I really really like it and want to keep both, they are so different! The Alfa is a lot more refined than I expected, the Boxster better at being fun without risking your license. I'd better pull my finger out at work This was the view at collection - mine being in the middle:
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 31, 2024 20:44:14 GMT
It's only money and if it's getting kept, it's money well spent IMO.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jan 31, 2024 22:09:50 GMT
Ffs you’re making me very nervous. It’s still my plan to be getting into one at some point this year but the bills might mean I have to go for an M3!!!
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Post by Alex on Feb 1, 2024 6:08:47 GMT
Ffs you’re making me very nervous. It’s still my plan to be getting into one at some point this year but the bills might mean I have to go for an M3!!! That's OK, no one ever had to spend a penny maintaining an M3. Its part and parcel of owning a performance car. Now you know about these things from Alfs car you can always try to haggle on the price if they've not been done.
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