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Post by alf on Sept 25, 2023 17:24:00 GMT
Nice write up ALF, it sounds right up your street. On the subject of sound....being an 18 reg means no GPF which will really help, isn't it supposed to be even louder in Race Mode and do you think you will miss having a speaker upgrade on longer journeys? What ceramic coating are they applying? I'm a big convert having lived with a gtechniq coated car for nearly 4 months. In the summer at least (with plenty of rain), it massively reduces the effort of keeping it looking good thanks to 'self cleaning'. I've only washed it twice plus a separate wheel clean, normal for me is every other weekend as a minimum. Normally after leaving a car at the airport for a week it is filthy, but it looked cleaner when I left that it did when I parked up! I'm not sure when the GPF went in. It was around the plate change in 2018 for BMW's I looked at, so I may well not have it. The standard specs are hard to find too! Standard spec is high but heated seats and hifi upgrade are the two I think I may not have that I'd miss the most. US reviews said 2018 cars got a pack as standard with the HK hifi and collision avoidance combined, it had the latter as I triggered it on the test drive (ahem). I won't know till I try it (hopefully Thursday or Friday) but it was too good a location/colour/mileage to miss for tiny stuff. Alcantara won't feel as cold as leather anyway even if not heated, and while I was annoyed not to get heated seats on the Boxster I've not missed them really. Big petrol engines produce lots of heating which does the trick The telematics reseller I'll be using to remove the trackers and camera from the Jag this Thursday, also does hifi upgrades, if the stock ones turns out to be crap I'll go aftermarket whenever they fit the new trackers. The HK in the Giulia is not well rated anyway compared to the BMW ones, or the XF Meridian. The Bowers and Wilkins in the original XFR remains the best car hifi I have ever heard. It was actually theirs as well (many car hifi upgrades are not made by the name on the badge, an ex colleague used to work in that field and HK make then for loads of brands!). The ceramic coating is whatever the dealer uses, I had this on my first XFR and it didn't need waxing for years and while internet lore says dealer applied ceramic is "just a kit you can buy for £20 on ebay and do yourself", the longevity of it was vastly better than any of the nano stuff I've used. If a car doesn't look well prepped, I'll haggle for this option as I know they'll clean and prep the crap out of it before applying. The red XFR looked so mint anyway, I didn't get it done... Race mode totally disables stabliity/traction control so while I'm glad I didn't use it on the test drive, it will see some experimentation and yes its supposed to be louder still... Another tricky specs area is winter tyres. 1 make makes one winter tyre in the rear size, and its not my ultimate employer Bridgestone (which I get well reduced). The OE size wheels are hens teeth too. There is an alternative narrower approved (still 19") wheel and tyre setup available in grey teledials with 225/255 instead of 245/285 and Bridgestone do do all seasons in that size, similar to Cross Climates. It might be a waste of time, it might be a better bet for UK winters than true winter tyres. In the long run it only costs me the difference between my purchase and sale price on the second set of alloys so I'll probably do it, but its a faff - even wheels the smaller size come from Italy (and are not OE) for about a grand.
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Post by Martin on Sept 25, 2023 17:53:23 GMT
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Post by johnc on Sept 26, 2023 10:38:18 GMT
Great choice James and somewhere to sit that will feel like home. I wish you many fast and safe miles.
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Post by clunes on Sept 26, 2023 17:42:57 GMT
Just a thought - given this is a Jag main dealer and given you’ve probably part exchanged one of the better examples out there - with speed pack etc (albeit with potential borkage) there may be a good value XFR with a 12 month main dealer warranty appearing soon! (Unless they ship it out to auction which may also be likely!).
Hmmmm 😂
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Post by alf on Sept 26, 2023 20:42:49 GMT
Just a thought - given this is a Jag main dealer and given you’ve probably part exchanged one of the better examples out there - with speed pack etc (albeit with potential borkage) there may be a good value XFR with a 12 month main dealer warranty appearing soon! (Unless they ship it out to auction which may also be likely!). Hmmmm 😂 They’re auctioning it. Which is interesting as not that long ago they did sell ones at that mileage through main dealers - they also could have sold it “as is” but don’t seem to want to… it is a good car for sure, very tight suspension and new brakes/batteries. Just needs a timing chain to be safe (though I think the existing one may well make it for many 10's of thousands more miles)...
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Post by Stuntman on Sept 27, 2023 9:44:10 GMT
Excellent news. Well done, enjoy...
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Post by rodge on Sept 27, 2023 16:42:52 GMT
Sounds like a great buy. Enjoy every mile!
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Post by PG on Sept 27, 2023 21:34:56 GMT
Well look what happens. I don't check in for a day and miss all the exceitement.
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Post by clunes on Oct 1, 2023 7:22:45 GMT
Right, It must be 24 hours now….where are the gratuitous pics Hope you’re loving it.
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Post by alf on Oct 2, 2023 9:45:38 GMT
Collection day was put back to today! They mechanically polished it and got the wheels off for a proper refurb, and wanted more time. Their main concern was getting the money in in September I think, I did that for them. I'm in sales, I know how it is. The proces of the chemical clean/mechanical polish/ceramic coat sounded very decent and I almost wish I'd asked them not to do the wheels as they were very good anyway (hopefully signs of a careful owner) - immaculate wheels never last, I need to avoid multi-storeys for a bit. And Tina parking anywhere...
I'm actually sat there right now as I'm early...
On the way here I got the trackers and camera taken out of the XFR, on the way home I'm going via that dealer again to put it in the Alfa. This little reseller in Bordon handles supercars regularly, I really like and trust them - and indeed will but a stero upgrade from them if mine is crap!
I'm very excited about the new one, but also very very sad to see thre Jaguar go. I got that car only a month or two before my marriage imploded, and its been a total jouney - driving to dates, all the (10 I think) trips to Europe, driving to my first marathon/triathlon in it, etc. I'll put some pics in a post, but we had great times together, and it still drivers superbly - tight as anything, the stereo is awesome, etc.
I parked near the new one and my first impression of it on this meet was how subtle it is. No gangster glass, silver non-teledial wheels, black so the (also black) holes in the bonnet are not obvious. Very me.
Insurance was £20 extra a year for the new one...
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Post by Martin on Oct 2, 2023 11:42:11 GMT
Happy collection day!
I’m sure you will miss the Jag, lots of memories, but at least you have a worthy replacement.
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Post by alf on Oct 6, 2023 9:20:54 GMT
OK so an update/first report. And its a mixed bag as you'll see! I picked up the car on Monday, and apart from a low battery warning, and a patch of faded leather on a rear seat (that's obviously had a child seat in there a lot, no bad thing from a driving perspective) it looked great. The mechanically polished paint looks amazing with none of the swirls the red jag had. Driving home in busy traffic on A and B roads (via one of our Telematics resellers to fit the trackers and camera for our demo fleet) all was good. Tuesday I went to the NEC and back for a show we were exhibiting at, and its a fantastic motorway car. The perceived quality of the interior, the way the doors shut, windows open, infotainment works/looks, are all a cut above anything we've had, incuding the A5. Even the (non-HK) stereo sounds far better than I feared. Its slightly more economical than the Jag as I thought it ought to, and comes up to 30mpg much sooner from a cold start, and MPG is less affected by traffic/urban driving. Even the eco mode (which does cylinder deactivation and so on) is a perfectly decent drive in traffic. Wednesday I drove the Boxster to the NEC and back as it's been neglected recently, then took it to the local specialist for its biennial service, which involved running home 10 miles after as Tina is in Germany......... I then took the Alfa out for a short B-road drive to see how it fared on local lanes and in the dark. I was finding it a curiously quiet and insulated drive on these roads, with much less noise than the Jag and worse throttle respose. And the headlights were both set far too high on dip beam, with the offside no lower than the nearside. Traffic coming the other way flashed me, something I hate. The next morning I took it to the local ETB (like my employer, also part of Bridgestone) and the adjusters were broken - though (showing how crap MOT's are) it was - just - "in spec" for MOT. Cue panic it may have been crashed, and Googling revealed the headlight mounts often break on all Giulia LED/Xenon lights, leaving them unadjustable unless you spend £600 each on new ones. At this time I also realised - with time to go through the glovebox - I had no history for the car at all, it seemed the Hendy Group (with whom the warranty is with) only have Ford and Jaguar dealers (unlikely to help). I also noticed that there are only 4 seatbelts (a weird anomaly on 2017 and 18 ones only, pics I had used to assure myself they had 5 belts were all from mid 18 or later) and - to cap it all - the infotainment screen went blank and did nothing. I'd also been googling about how few people can work on these cars, how useless the Alfa dealers are, and that the service it needs in 2500 miles seems a biggie (the 36k one, a bit late). At that point I was not feeling good about having spent £26k so far this week (Porsche service bill imminent when I run 10 miles back there this lunch to pick it up) on cars to have this grief. Google told me that while the mounts may be broken, there are additional adjusters on the backwhich will work if the mounts are not broken, accessible through the bulb-replacement hatches inside the wheel arch. These proved a bugger to remove, but with the wheels angled fully to one side, I found the ball joint mounts..... unbroken! Via a compact 13mm bike spanner, triple jointed wrists, depositing some skin, and teaching my neighbour's kids some new words, I adjusted the offside down 2 inches on the wall @2m distance, and the nearside one inch, which on another drive last night proved ideal. Much better than the Porsche Xenons which are set far too low (being sorted and brighter bulbs being fitted today). The Alfa headlights- another area I was worried about on the car as the XFR's were superb - are very good. The main dip-beam bulb area (Xenon, the main beam is LED) look exactly like the Jag units and may be the same Magnetti Marelli item. Oh and the infotainment screen being blank on startup is a "feature" unless you have the radio set to auto-on. Weird, but nothing broken. I spoke to the dealer and they are chasing the history, which it was sold to them as having. Its not been crashed - I've been all over it now and everything looks original but in great condition, really little evidence of the underside scuffs and so on I've seen in long term reviews. The interior is like new except for those small rear seat marks. Hendy have a Maserati dealer in the group, not local (Poole) but that gives me faith any big warranty issues at least have a route. I checked the battery and its fully charged now, and while the rear pads are low, the fronts have loads and the tyres are almost new all round. In tread depth anyway, the fronts are wearing on the inner edge exactly as they were on both XFR's. These sorts of cars have a lot of negative camber, and while my driving wears them dead evenly, a more cautious steer will not. There is no heat damage on the outside of the front tyres, very soon there will be (a good sign a car has been cornered hard!). Tonight I have a long A303/A road drive to my parents with Lu, back tomorrow, its time to explore Dynamic mode more and really rev out the engine a bit with the paddles, in auto it surges on torque a lot and is too quiet even in dynamic mode unless you floor it and keep it floored - which on roads I've driven it on so far is not possible. So far its exceeding expectations as a sensible long-drive cruiser, but - while its lighter feeling and much keener to change direction than the jag - it's nothing like as much of a hooligan on throttle response/traction loss.... I may need to keep the Porsche On the neutral side I'm not missing keyless, electric memory seats, or seat heating - the latter of which I used to care about, then realised I had a million glilets. The seating position is incredibly comfortable and - for me - perfect, as are the seats. Benefit of being an Italian shape/weight... Oh and no proper pics yet, these from pickup. 'Martin the dash and door tops are stitched leather
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Post by woofwoof on Oct 6, 2023 9:30:56 GMT
That does look lovely. I don't think I'd have another black car myself as I can't be bothered to put the extra effort in to make sure no swirls are visible. For people who can and do put the effort in, I'm sure the results will look very nice indeed I hope you enjoy your new buy
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Post by theotherct on Oct 6, 2023 9:40:13 GMT
Looks fantastic, enjoy!
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Post by clunes on Oct 6, 2023 10:39:25 GMT
Looking great and glad the issue with the lights was (relatively) easy to sort! Sounds like an almost perfect fit for you.
Given what I had read about the interior being the only thing that let these down it's good that you pretty much feel the opposite w.r.t. perceived quality. Interesting comment re: the overall character compared to the 'hooligan' Jag. I expect many people would see the Jag's relative lack of traction/manners as a negative but, as you've said in the past, it was, for you, an endearing part of the cars ownership proposition!
Enjoy every mile getting to know it better
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Post by Martin on Oct 6, 2023 10:42:14 GMT
Ignore the couple of wobbles, it sounds like it’s as ideal for you as you / we thought. If it makes you want to keep the Boxster as well, then all the better.
Looks like they’ve done a really good job with the prep, I’m surprised they managed to get the exhaust trims back to silver.
Are you sure it’s leather on the door tops rather than pleather? You could spend £100k on the last model Range Rover / Sport and it would be covered in pleather. As long as it looks nice it doesn’t matter, it’s better than plastic!
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Post by Tim on Oct 6, 2023 10:43:08 GMT
Black with silver wheels, my perfect combination Keep an eye on the battery - apparently Giulias are known for having issues here as the factory fit one isn't up to the job. Both mates that have a Giulia - a 2017 2.2 diesel and a 2021 2 litre petrol - have had to change/charge them. The latter car threw a wobbly with EVERY warning light coming on when said mate came to visit a while back (I can't remember if he replaced the battery or just charged it). The mate with the diesel bought it from Vardy earlier this year with 80k miles and took it back for a replacement battery under warranty and they managed to fit the wrong one! Otherwise the cars are a nice place to be and the interior of the 80k mile one looks barely worn.
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Post by Boxer6 on Oct 6, 2023 10:43:42 GMT
That does look to be a lovely thing! Enjoy.
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Post by alf on Oct 12, 2023 10:04:59 GMT
OK, so after about 14 hours driving the thing, some more concrete conclusions. Apologies this will mostly be a comparison with the Jag, but I spent almost 9 years with XFR's as a daily driver.
Its not what I expected, which was a massive dose of craziness and just about good enough refinemement for the mostly long runs I use my main car for. It is however perfectly suited to what I need in a daily driver, but I won't be selling the Boxster any time soon (I'll post about that soon as it just had its second service in my ownership, but they could not be more different).
What it is, is a very mature thing, oozing quality and in-the-know appeal, with the craziness very well hidden. It's very sensible and much quieter than I expected in "normal" mode, and I've mostly been in that mode as "Dynamic" holds it about 2 gears lower even on the motorway (unlike in the Jag where you could go anywhere in the peppier mode), so even though you can soften off the dampers in this mode, its not for highways. The engine is more obviously turbocharged-feeling that I expected, and the gearbox is more set to ride the wave of torque (the Jag kicked down a lot faster). Lag is transient but the growing swell of torque is a different feel to the supercharged V8, which in turn was not quite NA-like in response,but bloody close. So its less frenetic when you hit the "go" pedal, and feels much better tied down at the rear.
The engine makes a lot less noise than the Jag V8 in normal use (was was bloody loud all the time). With a prolonged shove of the pedal, it makes more noise than the Jag did - but you need to keep your foot in a while, and generally a corner/speed camera/slower car comes up before you hold it there long. This car is very, very fast - it has the biggest mismatch between actual and perceived acceleration and cruising speed, I have ever had in a car. I've already had a bollocking from work for my telematics data regularly spiking above 100mph, often over 110 transiently before I notice and back off. Every time, I've been thinking "this feels slower than the Jag" then I look down and think Feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeck! Its nominally a tad less torquey, but I think its the weight that means it just picks up and goes.
Part of this is the refinement. It's quieter than the Jag, with a lot less wind noise, and possibly (even) better ride. Sound insulation is strong, and the feel of the whole interior, from the buttons on the wheel to the way the windows go up and down (always slowly and creakily in the Jags), to the leather, to not having to reposition the door seals from time to time, is stronger than on either of my Jags, or Tina's A5 or Q3. I sit lower, straighter legged, and better held in positon laterally, and my back prefers the seats to any car I have driven. Only the epic stereos of my XFR's are missing (this one being about the same as the A5's - which has "Bang & olufsen" written on the speakers but I'm guessing not a full system as the Jag B&W and Meridian ones blew it away). It's acceptable, the sound stage is very strong (voice on Radio 4 is immersive and high quality) but its lacking deep bass or real hifi quality definition. I've been spoiled. But overall, again not what I expected, and while I joked that some of the fit and finish on the Jag - and the way the buttons sometimes defied being pressed - were "alfa like", nothing has missed a beat on this actual Alfa. It's even quieter over bumps as well, if you ignore occasional very low speed/bad road thumping at the back (ARB links most likely, an easy fix). Only the 1990's style loud beeps on lock/unlock are a bit weird.
Most of my driving has been motorways or accompanied, I have yet to spend much time pasting it in Dynamic mode. I did some "only >500bhp need apply" overtakes on twisty A roads, dropping it into dynamic for them then back out, this is easy enough and the rotary dial similarly placed to the gearshift in the Jags (which I moved into "sport" for similar purposes). It bloody shifts then, the perception being its the same as the Jag, the reality being a bigger number when I look down. I'm yet to explore the supposedly rabid high-revs performance much, you'd need some very open roads and you'd be well over 120mph before you really got going, I need to take it to Germany! It has an incredible front end, there is no feeling of having to hustle it into a corner like with the XFR's, or the Panamera I drove. It honestly feels like I imagine a modern hot hatch does on brake/corner entry, with very little perception of weight. I'm yet to Queef it on corner exit, where you can feel the power being shuffled about by the "plate type" LSD, a similiar feeling to some Caterhams I tracked with the ZF plate diff. I don't think it will be as playful as the Jag on road (on track it would be mighty) but there again the frequency with which I deliberately lost traction with the Jags was probably going to get me in trouble one day. It's nice to be able to hoof it at motorway speeds without butt-clenching about the rear kicking out. The steering is a little more aloof than the Jags, though much faster, I need some more time with it to really feel it.
Mine seems to have F1 Assymetrics on the front and F1 Supersports out back, not dissimilar to the P Zero front/Potenza Sport rear setup I had on the XFR for the last few years. I'm not sure if this was planned, or the Supersports were not available in the front sizes, but its the right way around (with the Supersport being a hgher performance tyre). When the rears wear out I'll get the even more aggressive (but still review-topping in the wet, unlike the Supersports) Potenza Sports all round, that may bring some steering feel back. The car was developed for semi-track tyres after all. All tyres have >6mm tread, so it will be some time. I'm currently totally skint and will probably not do the winter wheel thing, this winter at least, genuine wheels are hard to find and pricey (a pair of my current lightweight rears only on Ebay for £1200, some non-matching fronts £550 each), with most advertised aftermarket ones being 8x19F and 9x19R, when the originals are 8.5 and 10" wide. Bridgestone don't make winters in the right sizes (245/285, with an alternative rear of 265 which we also don't do) so I can't get them cheap. I could do 225/255 all-seaons on the narrower non-original wheels, allegedly its an acceptable fitment, I need to investigate more as to whether Alfa expelcitly allow it (and thus I don't need to invole insurers) or not, or somehow get a set of "real" wheels and Michelin (spit, curse) winters. For now, stress I don't need, and I do need the £1200 or so I'll get from selling the XFR winters!
Costs wise I have a near £500 refund road tax refund to cash, now paying by DD, from March next year (6th taxation from registration for a vehicle >£40k new) it drops to £180 a year. Which will be nice! It does seem to use about 10% less fuel than the Jag (hard to say as neither trip counter resets automatically) and I'm saving another £100 a month for the first year on warranty. I do have a big service coming up in 2k miles and will probably use a specialist from day 1, there are few Alfa garages about, even fewer with the part Ferrari-trained techs able to work on this car. From stories about waits for parts, there may be pain ahead, and I may need the second car!
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Post by Martin on Oct 12, 2023 10:22:23 GMT
Stop it, you’ve already had me looking at them on AT! Sounds brilliant and exactly what you wanted from the XFR replacement, I hope the quality/reliability continues to shine. It will be interesting to see how the balance changes when you have the same tyres front/rear, I wouldn’t be happy with mix & match tyres, but get the cost of change when there’s decent life left in the current ones. On the subject of tyres, I see that you can now get the Conti 7s and PS S5 in ND0 (specific spec for the Panamera, so you don’t end up putting GT3 tyres on it, the rears are the same size), so more options when the time comes to change. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if they last much more than 15-16k miles, despite the wear rate since I bought slowing down and running a winter set will help of course. A set of PS4s is c£1,650
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Post by alf on Oct 13, 2023 8:24:40 GMT
BTW, I also took this half decent (for a phone camera) picture on the way to the Dorset coast with my mum and Lucy last weekend (my mum seemed keen to drive us when she heard about the new car, I drove like a saint and it was fine ): @ Martin, of that lot, the Conti SC7 is by far the best from what I've seen. The PS5 is from a different range to the PS4S (less sporty), and the PS4S itself - the darling of internet forums everywhere - is said by all the tyre testers I trust to have a very vague and soft feel, effective but not that enjoyable to use.
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Post by Martin on Oct 13, 2023 9:11:33 GMT
It’s the new PS S5, rather than the PS5. The SC7 does get excellent reviews
I changed early into PS4S on the golf and is a very good tyre, a bit improvement over the std Conti 5Ps
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Post by PetrolEd on Oct 13, 2023 9:26:46 GMT
For servicing you want AHM in Hartley Wintney. They also do a plug and play sound box for the exhaust for a few hundred quid which means you don’t have to be in race to get the open exhausts.
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Post by alf on Oct 13, 2023 10:00:41 GMT
For servicing you want AHM in Hartley Wintney. They also do a plug and play sound box for the exhaust for a few hundred quid which means you don’t have to be in race to get the open exhausts. That's who I'll be using! I'm going straight to specialists this time... It's only 40 mins from me...
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Post by franki68 on Oct 16, 2023 14:03:10 GMT
The engine is the 2.9 Ferrari unit ? Best turbo engine I drove when I was testing cars earlier this year .
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Post by alf on Oct 16, 2023 14:25:24 GMT
The engine is a 2.9 derived from the Californias 4.0 V8 I think - it has the same bore, stroke, V angle, turbochargers, turbo position etc. Obviously Ferrari say this is all a conincidence I assume thats what the newer Ferrari 2.9 V6's are based on as well, but I'm not sure. Engines are rather expensive to develop, so it makes sense...
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Post by Tim on Oct 19, 2023 10:23:09 GMT
I was in a small coastal fishing village in Fife yesterday and spotted a black QF parked. It had the black wheels though.
Is the Maserati V6 a development of this/these engines as well?
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Post by alf on Oct 23, 2023 13:14:10 GMT
I was in a small coastal fishing village in Fife yesterday and spotted a black QF parked. It had the black wheels though. Is the Maserati V6 a development of this/these engines as well? Nope - I was looking into this and weirdly the existing Maserati 2.9l V6 was declared unable to reliable push >500bhp by the (Ferrari) team developing the Giulia GF. So they lopped 2 cylinders off the California/488 engine instead... Which I'm assuming is also the foundation of the 2.9 unit Ferrari now use...
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Post by Alex on Oct 24, 2023 19:55:07 GMT
I was in a small coastal fishing village in Fife yesterday and spotted a black QF parked. It had the black wheels though. Is the Maserati V6 a development of this/these engines as well? Nope - I was looking into this and weirdly the existing Maserati 2.9l V6 was declared unable to reliable push >500bhp by the (Ferrari) team developing the Giulia GF. So they lopped 2 cylinders off the California/488 engine instead... Which I'm assuming is also the foundation of the 2.9 unit Ferrari now use... Knowing Ferrari it's probably not. In fact looking at the specs on AT the Guilia QF is 2891cc and the Ferrari 296 is 2992cc which suggests its a different engine but it could just have a slightly longer stroke which could add the extra 17cc per cylinder.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2023 17:34:04 GMT
Congrats! Just seen this. Well, it kind of hand to be, didn't it?
Lots of very interesting reading.
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