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Post by Big Blue on Jul 17, 2023 7:55:12 GMT
So I have run Eva on electric only for a fortnight just to see the financial effect. I chose the 1st July as a starting point as the price of electricity went down and it ended on 15th July as I drove to the IoW as a birthday treat weekend away with W2.1, which required the ICE.
The numbers are a cost outlay equivalent to 41.91mpg. This is all local running and never higher than 40mph (in an average speed section!). A lot of stop start and very short journeys.
So to give a gauge, if I use the mpg figure I get on local running from the ICE only it's 21.89mpg.
Average ICE mpg since day 1 is 29.9mpg.
Best ever ICE mpg is 43.51mpg.
So given that, it is very economical to run local journeys on electric only. What I will add is that I ran no air con and if I managed to maintain a regular speed the usage of electric power was far better (as one would expect). Sitting in traffic the mpg equivalent plummets as you need to overcome the inertia which is a very high energy consuming activity.
I would say my take on it (mine, remember - feel free to disagree) is that electric car and short journeys are a great combination. I would remain unconvinced about longer journeys until there is huge infrastructure and speed to charge improvement (which as per the Toyota thread is probably coming as I give up driving long distances). It was an interesting thing to try and electric running is very nice in built up areas.
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Post by Martin on Jul 17, 2023 8:22:37 GMT
I’m a convert to electric running around town, it is nice. But I’d miss the other side of the cars personality, so still no desire to go full electric even if the infrastructure was massively improved.
I’ve only done one electric only experiment, to Head office and back which is a trip of 32.3 miles. It’s a journey with c2 miles each end at 30mph then the rest pretty busy dual carriageway, the average speed for the total journey was only 40mph. It did 2.7mi/kWh, which is better than I normally see (2.3-2.5) at the start of a longer journey, so cost £3.53 or 11p a mile. Based on the price I’ve paid for the last couple of tanks of full fat petrol, I’d have to do 61.5mpg to get that low.
The other trial was coming back from Bournemouth (155 miles), starting with zero charge. It was interesting to see how it worked in hybrid auto, trickle charging most of the time but increasing that when I was a couple of miles away from heavy traffic (it went from 2% to 12%) so it would run in electric and it did the same again when I was a few miles from home. I averaged 52mph and it achieved 36.2mpg, less than the Golf would have done, but pretty impressive for a big petrol engined car with a decent level of performance.
I’m not that bothered about the cost, as any saving is small compared to all the other running costs/depreciation, but I do find the engineering interesting.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 17, 2023 12:14:29 GMT
So I have run Eva on electric only for a fortnight just to see the financial effect. I chose the 1st July as a starting point as the price of electricity went down and it ended on 15th July as I drove to the IoW as a birthday treat weekend away with W2.1, which required the ICE. The numbers are a cost outlay equivalent to 41.91mpg. This is all local running and never higher than 40mph (in an average speed section!). A lot of stop start and very short journeys. So to give a gauge, if I use the mpg figure I get on local running from the ICE only it's 21.89mpg. Average ICE mpg since day 1 is 29.9mpg. Best ever ICE mpg is 43.51mpg. So given that, it is very economical to run local journeys on electric only. What I will add is that I ran no air con and if I managed to maintain a regular speed the usage of electric power was far better (as one would expect). Sitting in traffic the mpg equivalent plummets as you need to overcome the inertia which is a very high energy consuming activity. I would say my take on it (mine, remember - feel free to disagree) is that electric car and short journeys are a great combination. I would remain unconvinced about longer journeys until there is huge infrastructure and speed to charge improvement (which as per the Toyota thread is probably coming as I give up driving long distances). It was an interesting thing to try and electric running is very nice in built up areas. 42 mpg? Is it just me or does that not seem disappointing? I had a figure in my head of closer to 100 mpg for electric only running. It seems a lot of extra engineering and cost for little gain. |
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 17, 2023 12:35:51 GMT
If I lived at the top of a hill and used electric-only running for the downhill section it would look like ♾️ mpg equivalent because the charge would never deplete. Where I never charge from a socket and go on a drive it looks like infinity mpg for the electric portion because it’s impossible to separate the petrol used to propel the car from that used to charge the batteries so I just lump all petrol use on propulsion.
Hence the experiment. The issue is: electricity is not free (or pollution-less) so I had to equate it back to a unit we all comprehend (mpg).
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 17, 2023 13:16:27 GMT
I'm a dinosaur and still have no idea how this stuff works but a bit like Bob I would find the 40mpg disappointing. Without be a complete Jostler but wouldn't a D5 do more.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 17, 2023 13:53:19 GMT
I'm a dinosaur and still have no idea how this stuff works but a bit like Bob I would find the 40mpg disappointing. Without be a complete Jostler but wouldn't a D5 do more. For me it would be a no-brainer - I'd get the 530d, or even 535d but they don't appear to do them anymore, so you have to swallow the £10k price hike to go petrol electric. |
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Post by Martin on Jul 17, 2023 15:45:54 GMT
So I have run Eva on electric only for a fortnight just to see the financial effect. I chose the 1st July as a starting point as the price of electricity went down and it ended on 15th July as I drove to the IoW as a birthday treat weekend away with W2.1, which required the ICE. The numbers are a cost outlay equivalent to 41.91mpg. This is all local running and never higher than 40mph (in an average speed section!). A lot of stop start and very short journeys. So to give a gauge, if I use the mpg figure I get on local running from the ICE only it's 21.89mpg. Average ICE mpg since day 1 is 29.9mpg. Best ever ICE mpg is 43.51mpg. So given that, it is very economical to run local journeys on electric only. What I will add is that I ran no air con and if I managed to maintain a regular speed the usage of electric power was far better (as one would expect). Sitting in traffic the mpg equivalent plummets as you need to overcome the inertia which is a very high energy consuming activity. I would say my take on it (mine, remember - feel free to disagree) is that electric car and short journeys are a great combination. I would remain unconvinced about longer journeys until there is huge infrastructure and speed to charge improvement (which as per the Toyota thread is probably coming as I give up driving long distances). It was an interesting thing to try and electric running is very nice in built up areas. 42 mpg? Is it just me or does that not seem disappointing? I had a figure in my head of closer to 100 mpg for electric only running. It seems a lot of extra engineering and cost for little gain. Assuming BB pays c30p for electric, then it would be just over 160mpg if he was on the Octopus Intelligent tariff (no penalty for peak usage to offset). A 530d would be up at 50+ mpg on the motorway, but probably no better than 30mpg in the mix of driving across those 2 weeks. I don’t completely disagree with your point though, it is a lot of engineering and cost for fairly marginal gains. There are other small gains aside from cost, it does make stop-start / town driving very smooth and ‘wafty’ and the torque fill is noticeable. The cost difference on my car is c£8.5k vs the base model, but you do get 40% more power and 60% more torque for your money. |
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Post by Tim on Jul 17, 2023 15:56:05 GMT
I'm a dinosaur and still have no idea how this stuff works but a bit like Bob I would find the 40mpg disappointing. Without be a complete Jostler but wouldn't a D5 do more. For me it would be a no-brainer - I'd get the 530d, or even 535d but they don't appear to do them anymore, so you have to swallow the £10k price hike to go petrol electric. I spend a lot of my time in the 430 using as much of its performance as possible and it's still getting around 42/43mpg. I'd be disappointed to have to drive something like Miss Daisy to still only get the equivalent. |
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 17, 2023 20:30:55 GMT
Well by way of comparison with a full EV:
An iPace has usable capacity of 84.7kWh, making a full charge at my EDF rate the equivalent of 3.55gallons of V-power. The range of an iPace is “about 235 miles” according to EV database. This makes the mpg equivalent 66.2mpg on my scale. Bearing in mind that my electric-only journeys were pretty much 80% urban I reckon Eva has performed on a par with any other EV as I’m not sure an iPace would do 235miles on a single charge stopping and starting between Epsom, Cheam, Worcester Park and Kingston over and over again.
My electricity rate is not anything other than the standard rate so any downward pricing would affect the virtual mpg figure, as would price-comparing E10 petrol. It’s not any kind of financial exercise having a PHEV that had a list price north of £70k so all this is immaterial. I liked the smooching silence of that Volvo we rented and that’s what drove me down the PHEV route. I also reckon I can get a lot more stuff in Eva than an iPace.
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Post by cbeaks1 on Jul 18, 2023 10:38:19 GMT
I’m going to check out the octopus intelligent thing today. Looks like the normal rate does not change but you get 6 hours of 7.5p at night. That would make a charge of mine under £1 and maybe save £40 a month?
Are there drawbacks I am missing?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 18, 2023 11:24:15 GMT
Probably worth exploring that Octopus offer to see if it has legs.
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Post by bryan on Jul 18, 2023 11:25:04 GMT
I'm on octopus Go, day rate of 29p a unit, 9.5p for 4hrs a night, keeps our battery topped up on the Evoque.
Not sure I understand the intelligent one,
Like octopus as a company
Mrs M regularly gets over 1000 miles on a tank of petrol as her daily commute is under the 33mile ev range. We only use the petrol when we go on a trip
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Post by cbeaks1 on Jul 18, 2023 16:25:07 GMT
Not sure I can use intelligent so I have signed up for Go.
Assume you just schedule the charge via your cars app or the charger?
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Post by LandieMark on Jul 18, 2023 17:40:24 GMT
I've used Octopus for years and never had an issue, but they took over from Avro Energy who failed to send my dad a bill for over two years despite being given his details and meter reads.
Octopus state the Avro balance is due without any proof whatsoever - we've asked for a breakdown and bills which hasn't materialised. We've told them to sod off and asked for a deadlock letter. Haven't heard anything since August last year.
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Post by bryan on Jul 18, 2023 18:04:42 GMT
Not sure I can use intelligent so I have signed up for Go. Assume you just schedule the charge via your cars app or the charger? If you had said before I have a £50 referral link for octopus. I have an Andersen A2 charger and the app lets me align the charging time to the low cost 4hr window. Just be aware if the broadband crashes it can lose the timings occasionally, we found this out when the smart meter was costing £££. Simple enough to check on the app after a power cut. Assume all chargers have something similar or the car does |
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Post by Martin on Jul 19, 2023 7:16:29 GMT
Meeting in MK today. Will cost £3.10 as I can charge for free before I leave, so 6p a mile and it would be 2p a mile on the Octopus Go Tariff. The business mileage claim is £13.34. Still a lot of catching up after 3 years of funding 35% of business miles.
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Post by alf on Jul 28, 2023 11:00:16 GMT
Very much agree with the first two posts - I think I'd be more lilely to have an EV city car (like the Honda one) than try and do everything with it, and even then only if I did a lot of urban driving (which I don't).
Also as Martin alludes to with the "character" comment, why buy a high performance car for a fortune then exculsively nanny it for great MPG (or equivalent)? It's an aspect of skillful driving that can be satisfying at times, but a total waste if its the whole time...
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Post by rodge on Jul 28, 2023 18:24:06 GMT
Talking to my manager today, his manager has owned a succession of Porsches over the past 10 years or so.
He recently bought a Cayenne to replace his Panamera and loves the Cayenne.
Well today, the Cayenne went in for a service and he was given a brand new Taycan as a courtesy car. He loves it and cancelled a few meetings so he could go out and drive it during the day today.
Sounds like he might go electric after his most recent purchase…
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