Post by alf on Jun 15, 2023 17:05:22 GMT
Weird that this was so close in timing to Martin's purchase, and hopefully he won't take offence to any negatives, given that there are very few bad cars, just ones that don't suit our current budget and needs!
The car was loaned to a school friend of mine who visited in it, his second Polestar just got shortened somewhat after an unintended interface with a Golf Plus. It was deemed the other party's fault and this was deemed a suitable replacement! If his Polestar is not written off, he could be in it for some time.
I've always been a fan of the current shape Panamera, oscilating between favouring each body shape, the V8 I have seen as pretty much my perfect daily driver, so it was interesting to get behind the wheel of one. As mentioned elswhere, working in partnerships for a leading Telematics company where many of my meetings are about carbon reduction and assisting with fleet electrification planning, itself owned by a major tyre company that has loads of eco goals in its mission statement, I have started to feel nervous when asked what I drive. Especially when I demo our Telematics to people at green-related software companies and my cars is identified on the map as "XFR V8". It won't necessarily shape my next car choice - which is not imminent - but I'm interested in hybrids probably more than full BEV's given the cross-European motoring I do plenty of.
Inside, the Panamera is a lovely thing. Fantastic quality, the same leather smell as all my Alfas, and a nice blend of tech, screens, and buttons, without going too crazy. Though I don't love the big turny thing on the dash to "start" it, combined with a turny thing on the steerting wheel for driving modes (why does this not also start it?) and a gear lever with the silly button for park, that all modern autos seem to have. Not as intuitive as the turny dial gear shift in the Jag, and taking up more space. The boot and rear seat space is superb - truly this would be an excellent car for holidaying into Europe. I would certainly consider the slightly uglier turismo version as well, as a triathlete/mountain biker its great if I can get at least one bike in the car, in the Jag I can get a road bike in the boot - wheels off - with plenty of luggage around it, and not folding the seat, so when it's just Tina and I, I take one.
Starting off, I had the same slight confusion about whether it was "on" or not, as when I had a Clio hybrid hire car. When I set off, I have to say, the initial two thoughts were: the throttle response sucks, and the brakes are very light (on feel too) for a Porsche. Also, while my now BEV-indoctrinated friend suggested it was loud, I could barely tell when the engine was on at any point. I think Martin suggested a need for a sports exhaust - I concur. While it interfaces engine and electric very smoothly (no better than the Clio, mind, which was great) I just could not make it feel like a 460bhp car - the battery had juice, I tried all the drive modes, it just lacked any sort of response compared to what I am used to, and seemed to be shuffling gears in a slightly confused way, in both regards very much more like Tinas's V6 diesel A5 and 7 speed "S tronic" thing. Not bad, but I have been spoiled by nearly a decade of at least 500bhp, supercharging and its lack of lag, <1900kg weight, and the result of a very UK-specific chassis setup.
It grips, for sure, corners nice and flatly, and I had no issues with the size - its barely longer and a little wider than the XFR. IT has more tyre noise but a lot less wind noise than the XFR (which in my current example is annoying on the drivers window only). The tyre choice may affect that - they were Conti SC5's in a crazy 315/21 size at the rear, which I think is optional. They were also 2/3rds worn at the rear and half at the front after 1800 miles. That could get pricey.
Overall its a lovely thing, but I'm still conflicted about hybrids and BEV's. I Googled that changing the battery on one of these is $25k or so. If Porsche let it just degrade that's fine, but if it throws warning lights (becoming impossible to MOT) then demands a change at some point, that's not cool. I have no company car tax benefit to this sort of car, the charging and weight issues put me off BEV to some extent, hybrid seems a good middle way. It does add 250kg to the car, but I like the very clever regen (I could handle more of a regen brake pedal feel actually) and my friend's experience was that the MPG on typical mixed-speed motorway driving was exceptionally good compared to full ICE. Clearly I would need a version with more "go", and even the basic ones on a 2018/9 plate seem £50k second hand, to which equation I need to add that the battery got an upgrade in 2020. My pay has not nearly kept up with inflation for years now, perhaps when I stop maintenance payments in a year I would feel able to buy something like this, but it would be a BIG stretch.
Which is my biggest issue. I've driven the XFR to Birmingham/Warwick and back twice this week. It feels a little narrower, taller, and less amazing inside than the Panamera. It's just as quiet on the motorway and the seats are similarly uber-adjustable, and the stereo remarkable. It got 35mpg average for the two trips despite a fair bit of start/stop on the central Birmingham leg. But the sheer performance and noise are the killer. Even on a part throttle, it's just off, and I'm bracing for possible opposite lock (not to everyone's tastes I know), though with the Potenza Sports in this weather it finds mighty traction. The steering and brake feel is better. So I think I learned that I had excessive expectations of a modern, big, Porsche as a driver's tool, my 2006 small one being near perfect in that regard, and the wail from its engine a work of art. And a Panamera could not be an "only car" solution for me in the way something like a Giulia Quadrifoglio or some AMG products might be, its too big, grippy, and sensible. It's still right up there as a next car, if I fancy bankrupting myself, but I would have to seriously consider a V8 non hybrid as well (assuming they depreciate faster?). And probably a Taycan, in case I like it more than I expect - the lower end ones are almost a bargain, and man maths on the reduced fuel could work out. Charging on long runs would be a pain, but that would mostly be in Europe where it might - might - be better. I'm very interested to see how Martin gets on with the real-world MPG in his hybrid and whether that justifies lugging that extra 250kg about, and to keep my eye on used prices and whether I can beg a ride in versions with either more power, or the sports exhaust, or both. Like Martin, I find the hybrid tech interesting and would enjoy optimising its effects, but is it really useful, or driven by legislation only? And will it cost more to run long term? This I am hoping our forum guinea pig can answer
The car was loaned to a school friend of mine who visited in it, his second Polestar just got shortened somewhat after an unintended interface with a Golf Plus. It was deemed the other party's fault and this was deemed a suitable replacement! If his Polestar is not written off, he could be in it for some time.
I've always been a fan of the current shape Panamera, oscilating between favouring each body shape, the V8 I have seen as pretty much my perfect daily driver, so it was interesting to get behind the wheel of one. As mentioned elswhere, working in partnerships for a leading Telematics company where many of my meetings are about carbon reduction and assisting with fleet electrification planning, itself owned by a major tyre company that has loads of eco goals in its mission statement, I have started to feel nervous when asked what I drive. Especially when I demo our Telematics to people at green-related software companies and my cars is identified on the map as "XFR V8". It won't necessarily shape my next car choice - which is not imminent - but I'm interested in hybrids probably more than full BEV's given the cross-European motoring I do plenty of.
Inside, the Panamera is a lovely thing. Fantastic quality, the same leather smell as all my Alfas, and a nice blend of tech, screens, and buttons, without going too crazy. Though I don't love the big turny thing on the dash to "start" it, combined with a turny thing on the steerting wheel for driving modes (why does this not also start it?) and a gear lever with the silly button for park, that all modern autos seem to have. Not as intuitive as the turny dial gear shift in the Jag, and taking up more space. The boot and rear seat space is superb - truly this would be an excellent car for holidaying into Europe. I would certainly consider the slightly uglier turismo version as well, as a triathlete/mountain biker its great if I can get at least one bike in the car, in the Jag I can get a road bike in the boot - wheels off - with plenty of luggage around it, and not folding the seat, so when it's just Tina and I, I take one.
Starting off, I had the same slight confusion about whether it was "on" or not, as when I had a Clio hybrid hire car. When I set off, I have to say, the initial two thoughts were: the throttle response sucks, and the brakes are very light (on feel too) for a Porsche. Also, while my now BEV-indoctrinated friend suggested it was loud, I could barely tell when the engine was on at any point. I think Martin suggested a need for a sports exhaust - I concur. While it interfaces engine and electric very smoothly (no better than the Clio, mind, which was great) I just could not make it feel like a 460bhp car - the battery had juice, I tried all the drive modes, it just lacked any sort of response compared to what I am used to, and seemed to be shuffling gears in a slightly confused way, in both regards very much more like Tinas's V6 diesel A5 and 7 speed "S tronic" thing. Not bad, but I have been spoiled by nearly a decade of at least 500bhp, supercharging and its lack of lag, <1900kg weight, and the result of a very UK-specific chassis setup.
It grips, for sure, corners nice and flatly, and I had no issues with the size - its barely longer and a little wider than the XFR. IT has more tyre noise but a lot less wind noise than the XFR (which in my current example is annoying on the drivers window only). The tyre choice may affect that - they were Conti SC5's in a crazy 315/21 size at the rear, which I think is optional. They were also 2/3rds worn at the rear and half at the front after 1800 miles. That could get pricey.
Overall its a lovely thing, but I'm still conflicted about hybrids and BEV's. I Googled that changing the battery on one of these is $25k or so. If Porsche let it just degrade that's fine, but if it throws warning lights (becoming impossible to MOT) then demands a change at some point, that's not cool. I have no company car tax benefit to this sort of car, the charging and weight issues put me off BEV to some extent, hybrid seems a good middle way. It does add 250kg to the car, but I like the very clever regen (I could handle more of a regen brake pedal feel actually) and my friend's experience was that the MPG on typical mixed-speed motorway driving was exceptionally good compared to full ICE. Clearly I would need a version with more "go", and even the basic ones on a 2018/9 plate seem £50k second hand, to which equation I need to add that the battery got an upgrade in 2020. My pay has not nearly kept up with inflation for years now, perhaps when I stop maintenance payments in a year I would feel able to buy something like this, but it would be a BIG stretch.
Which is my biggest issue. I've driven the XFR to Birmingham/Warwick and back twice this week. It feels a little narrower, taller, and less amazing inside than the Panamera. It's just as quiet on the motorway and the seats are similarly uber-adjustable, and the stereo remarkable. It got 35mpg average for the two trips despite a fair bit of start/stop on the central Birmingham leg. But the sheer performance and noise are the killer. Even on a part throttle, it's just off, and I'm bracing for possible opposite lock (not to everyone's tastes I know), though with the Potenza Sports in this weather it finds mighty traction. The steering and brake feel is better. So I think I learned that I had excessive expectations of a modern, big, Porsche as a driver's tool, my 2006 small one being near perfect in that regard, and the wail from its engine a work of art. And a Panamera could not be an "only car" solution for me in the way something like a Giulia Quadrifoglio or some AMG products might be, its too big, grippy, and sensible. It's still right up there as a next car, if I fancy bankrupting myself, but I would have to seriously consider a V8 non hybrid as well (assuming they depreciate faster?). And probably a Taycan, in case I like it more than I expect - the lower end ones are almost a bargain, and man maths on the reduced fuel could work out. Charging on long runs would be a pain, but that would mostly be in Europe where it might - might - be better. I'm very interested to see how Martin gets on with the real-world MPG in his hybrid and whether that justifies lugging that extra 250kg about, and to keep my eye on used prices and whether I can beg a ride in versions with either more power, or the sports exhaust, or both. Like Martin, I find the hybrid tech interesting and would enjoy optimising its effects, but is it really useful, or driven by legislation only? And will it cost more to run long term? This I am hoping our forum guinea pig can answer
