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Post by PG on Jul 21, 2017 20:06:49 GMT
If this is true it is huge - how will the German government sidestep this one? The diesel scandal surrounding Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche and Volkswagen has taken a further twist with news that the EU has opened an investigation into claims the five German car makers worked together to set standards and collaborate on software manipulation methods for diesel engine development in secret meetings.
German diesel cartel rumoursNow that Merc have recalled an awful lot of cars for "software tweaks" and Audi have done the same for V6 and V8 diesels, there is lots of smoke that it may be true that everyone was cheating. And nobody chopped anybody else in, as they were all at it. After all, there's no smoke without fire. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 6:20:58 GMT
I
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Post by Alex on Jul 22, 2017 9:33:41 GMT
Well I did say when the VW Dieselgate scandal erupted that the silence from their rivals was deafening. None of them seemed particularly keen to take advantage of VW's misfortunes.
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Post by LandieMark on Jul 22, 2017 10:18:04 GMT
Can't say I'm at all surprised.
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Post by Blarno on Jul 22, 2017 10:36:20 GMT
Big cheeses of manufacturing companies ganging up to cheat tests that bear no relevance to the real world? Standard practice.
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 22, 2017 11:17:20 GMT
Basically all they've done is prove the futility of standardised testing. If there's a standard you meet it at the points of measurement. It's like speeding cameras. I always make sure I'm at or below the limit by a camera and judging by the number of brake lights I see so do most of my fellow drivers.
Whoever decided diesel was to be used in millions of road vehicles and set car and fuel taxation to encourage it is actually to blame.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 10:05:21 GMT
I doubt the Germans are the only ones.
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Post by Tim on Jul 26, 2017 10:29:02 GMT
More news here (from the BBC website, sorry Michael  www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40725688I'm slightly amused that they list other firms being investigated as Porsche and Audi. Given they're all under the same umbrella and have massive levels of platform, etc sharing there's surely no need to investigate separately. |
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Post by alf on Jul 27, 2017 13:26:42 GMT
What Car mentioned recently that a brand new A3 saloon TDi on sale now, cannot pass EURO1 standards in real world testing. EURO1 !!!!! FFS !!!! The gap between reality and claims is so massive, it has to be a huge scandal. I'm no conspiracy theorist but this has to be a cover-up of the highest order...
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Post by Tim on Jul 27, 2017 13:52:34 GMT
The latest news is that VW are offering to 'refit' 4M diesel cars. See below, taken from BBC.
"The boss of Volkswagen will offer to refit 4m of its diesel cars to reduce emissions.
At a summit on 2 August, VW chief executive Matthias Mueller will make the offer.
The 4m figure includes 2.5m which are covered by a recall of diesel vehicles VW introduced after admitting in 2015 to cheating regulatory emissions tests in 11 million diesel vehicles worldwide.
The remainder include some 600,000 German V6 and V8 diesel vehicles from VW subsidiary Audi.
That leaves around 900,000 previously unannounced cars covered by Thursday's announcement, including models from subsidiary Porsche and VW's Touareg sport utility vehicles, as well as some of its Transporter vans."
I thought when they did their initial management shakeup that it was too limited - I think Matthias Mueller came from Porsche and there was a whole host of other internal moves.
Given that they're clearly implying the issue was a VAG-wide one presumably they'll now need to bin a whole host of other senior bods and bring in some new talent from outside to give them credibility. Obviously notwithstanding that they've just announced a quadrupling of profits!
ALF's comment about the A3 TDI makes me wonder what level of emissions regulation cars are actually managing. E.g. look at the actual vs claimed fuel economy of the longtermers on CAR's fleet and recalculate the emissions for what they're really doing.
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Post by Tim on Jul 28, 2017 8:57:01 GMT
Porsche now recalling 22,000 Cayenne's in Germany to modify their software!
From BBC story:-
"Allegations about Porsche first emerged in German magazine Der Spiegel last month.
It said it was told by a source that the Porsche Cayenne had a "warm up mode" whose true purpose was to comply with emissions requirements. It said tests showed that once the car was confronted with small bends or a slope it switched to a different mode and emissions were higher.
"There is no explanation why this software was in this vehicle," German Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt said on Thursday"
I think there's a simple explanation of why the software is in that vehicle.....
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 28, 2017 9:47:18 GMT
I've always regarded BMW's figures as the most fancifully "optimistic" of the lot. Wonder if it feels hot at head office? BMW seem have come out fighting. Which one supposes means either (1) they think they've eliminated all the evidence or (2) they think they aren't guilty. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2017 11:32:27 GMT
The way evidence has trickled through I would be inclined to believe the first of those options. This has the same stink as the McLaren (F1 team) scandal of a number of years ago. What was the penalty for Renault when it was discovered they not only had data from other teams cars but, had parts on the car from that data which the McLarens did NOT have. Another farce in the making.
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Post by Tim on Nov 9, 2017 12:28:48 GMT
I thought I'd resurrect this thread.
Just seen on BBC that South Korea are going to fine BMW, Mercedes and Porsche for forging emissions documents between 2012 and 2015.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2017 19:14:57 GMT
I know it is a bandwagon thing but, why have the UK not done the same? A good kicking for cheating is a good thing imvho of course.
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Post by Tim on Nov 10, 2017 10:02:03 GMT
VW have announced record sales for the latest month or quarter - I don't think anyone really gives a shit about the cheating apart from legislators sadly.
Of course, I still think that if it was a less 'premium' brand (if the world's no1 seller by volume can actually be premium!) they would've been hit a lot harder by consumers at least.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 10, 2017 12:52:06 GMT
VW have announced record sales for the latest month or quarter - I don't think anyone really gives a shit about the cheating apart from legislators sadly. This. We've all owned cars that say they do "x" mpg and never achieved it; the chances of a mere driver in a manual version of a car getting off the line faster and cleaner than the equivalent auto-box driver are slim, so those 0-60 figures might as well be written in Sanskrit for all their worth; for years we were told having your car serviced by anyone other than a main dealer would invalidate the warranty, effectively calling the independent motor industry a bunch of inept chancers when as stated elsewhere in these pages we see main dealers are far more inefficient (to be polite about it!), and even legislation hasn't fully prevented this. Basically if Joe public likes a thing they buy it, no matter what's being hidden from them or not being hidden from them. Fags, booze, sugar, pornography - all hideous for our physical and mental well-being if over consumed but lapped up by billions of people, many to excess. Having said that I'm off to knock one out in the back of a diesel Passat with a Twitter video whilst eating sweets and slurping vodka from a bottle. When I've done wiping it up I'll have a fag. |
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Post by Tim on Nov 10, 2017 13:52:03 GMT
VW have announced record sales for the latest month or quarter - I don't think anyone really gives a shit about the cheating apart from legislators sadly. This. We've all owned cars that say they do "x" mpg and never achieved it; the chances of a mere driver in a manual version of a car getting off the line faster and cleaner than the equivalent auto-box driver are slim, so those 0-60 figures might as well be written in Sanskrit for all their worth; for years we were told having your car serviced by anyone other than a main dealer would invalidate the warranty, effectively calling the independent motor industry a bunch of inept chancers when as stated elsewhere in these pages we see main dealers are far more inefficient (to be polite about it!), and even legislation hasn't fully prevented this. Basically if Joe public likes a thing they buy it, no matter what's being hidden from them or not being hidden from them. Fags, booze, sugar, pornography - all hideous for our physical and mental well-being if over consumed but lapped up by billions of people, many to excess. Having said that I'm off to knock one out in the back of a diesel Passat with a Twitter video whilst eating sweets and slurping vodka from a bottle. When I've done wiping it up I'll have a fag.
Don't you need to finish all that off with some inappropriate touching (of a 3rd party, obviously)?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2017 12:21:46 GMT
This. We've all owned cars that say they do "x" mpg and never achieved it; the chances of a mere driver in a manual version of a car getting off the line faster and cleaner than the equivalent auto-box driver are slim, so those 0-60 figures might as well be written in Sanskrit for all their worth; for years we were told having your car serviced by anyone other than a main dealer would invalidate the warranty, effectively calling the independent motor industry a bunch of inept chancers when as stated elsewhere in these pages we see main dealers are far more inefficient (to be polite about it!), and even legislation hasn't fully prevented this. Basically if Joe public likes a thing they buy it, no matter what's being hidden from them or not being hidden from them. Fags, booze, sugar, pornography - all hideous for our physical and mental well-being if over consumed but lapped up by billions of people, many to excess. Having said that I'm off to knock one out in the back of a diesel Passat with a Twitter video whilst eating sweets and slurping vodka from a bottle. When I've done wiping it up I'll have a fag.
Don't you need to finish all that off with some inappropriate touching (of a 3rd party, obviously)?
Or if you want to go by historical precedent, an animal perhaps. Watch those big cows though. |
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