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Post by Tim on Apr 12, 2022 13:15:42 GMT
What's the difference between a Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and a 4S?
Also, any idea why the BMW approved versions of each have a lower wet weather rating than the non-BMW approved one (presumably a variation in compound?)?
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Post by johnc on Apr 12, 2022 14:03:24 GMT
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Post by Andy C on Apr 12, 2022 14:08:26 GMT
I went with PS4 as you couldnt get the S in my size
They’re brilliant (in both dry and wet) , and much better than the continentals I had on before
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Post by Tim on Apr 12, 2022 15:34:11 GMT
Hmm nothing in it then. The reviews on MyTyres appear to favour the 4 over the 4S. Given there's a saving I'll take the 4  I noticed the 5 is out now too but it's currently quite a bit more. |
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Post by Andy C on Apr 12, 2022 15:44:39 GMT
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 12, 2022 20:53:39 GMT
If your going to be leaning on the tyre then get the 4S which is a rather fabulous tyre. If it’s just going on the daily that’ll be going up and down the motorway then a 4 is more then adequate.
As an alternative, Apparently the new Conti sport contract 7 has moved the game on to another level altogether
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 12, 2022 23:46:27 GMT
Hmm nothing in it then. The reviews on MyTyres appear to favour the 4 over the 4S. Given there's a saving I'll take the 4  I noticed the 5 is out now too but it's currently quite a bit more. Yes, I could have put a set of PS5 on my car, but there was a discount available on the PS4S which made quite a significant difference to the price of a set of four, and I figured that whatever improvements the PS5 might offer, it probably wasn't worth the difference. |
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Post by Tim on Apr 13, 2022 9:03:13 GMT
I've ordered the normal 4.
I'm pretty sure they'll be an improvement over the Bridgestones that the car came on and they'll certainly be more responsive than the Conti winter tyres it's running just now.
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Post by alf on Apr 20, 2022 11:06:30 GMT
My understanding is that they are totally different tyres from different historical ranges. The "S" models come from the old super sport range of warm weather performance oriented tyres, and the "PS" range has more basic origins. They both test very well with the "PS" being more of an all round road tyre and the "PSXS" being one for very high performance, its a competitor to other so-called "UUHP" tyres. I'm highly bored of both for two reasons: firstly "the internet" uses them interchangeably when they are totally different tyres from different ranges. Secondly the "S" model will always be the recommendation of "the internet" on any performance car forum, and anyone like myself that points out that the P Zero PS4, new Potenza Sport, and Conti SC7 all perform better in more recent tests will be roundly flamed. And thirdly I work for a division of Bridgestone, but my sentiments - for the above reasons - were already in place well before they bought us |
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Post by johnc on Apr 20, 2022 11:42:36 GMT
My understanding is that they are totally different tyres from different historical ranges. The "S" models come from the old super sport range of warm weather performance oriented tyres, and the "PS" range has more basic origins. They both test very well with the "PS" being more of an all round road tyre and the "PSXS" being one for very high performance, its a competitor to other so-called "UUHP" tyres. I'm highly bored of both for two reasons: firstly "the internet" uses them interchangeably when they are totally different tyres from different ranges. Secondly the "S" model will always be the recommendation of "the internet" on any performance car forum, and anyone like myself that points out that the P Zero PS4, new Potenza Sport, and Conti SC7 all perform better in more recent tests will be roundly flamed. And thirdly I work for a division of Bridgestone, but my sentiments - for the above reasons - were already in place well before they bought us So what would you put on the back of an M5? Currently on PZeros but they just switch off totally below about 7 degrees. The fronts still have 5mm (emphasising the RWD bias) and I see no point in changing them just now. |
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Post by Tim on Apr 20, 2022 12:32:02 GMT
Time to update this then.
The Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tyres were fitted on Friday. I went out for a brief drive and could feel the difference by the end of the road despite not going above 30 (and only in a straight line). They felt better even just pulling out of the drive.
There didn't even seem to be any lack of grip with them being brand new.
So a success. I haven't pushed the car really hard on them yet in case they still need scrubbed a bit but that time is approaching.
John, I put new tyres on the front of my 320 while the rears were only part worn and the garage reckoned that was the cause of the minor issue I was having that felt like a slight hesitation under hard acceleration.
In reality I think it was the clutches in the transfer box slipping.
I think the new tyres were on for around 5k miles before the issue came to light.
John Clarks reckoned the solution was a new transfer box (£5k) but in reality nothing was done to the car in the following 18 months until I traded it. However I was always very wary of using full throttle in case I made it worse or caused it to fail.
The internet is awash with stories of dodgy transfer boxes on x-Drive eqiupped BMWs going back more than 10 years.
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Post by alf on Apr 20, 2022 13:45:19 GMT
Glad they are good! Any new performance tyre will be better than very tired ones.
The P Zero I meant, that has reviewed really well, is the PZ4 version (not PS4 - ooops). Tyres are funny thing though - my current car came on P Zero PS3's and was quite lethal (they were well worn). Replacements of the same were very good indeed. Are the OEM ones different? Or is that just 4 year's wear? Who knows - but the difference was night and day! Then the Potenza Sports much better again.
The new Conti SC7 obliterates the competition in this review: - its a good review for folk like us as its a RWD staggered setup...
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Post by Tim on Apr 20, 2022 14:02:02 GMT
They replaced a set of winters but the difference would've been greater if they were replacing the Bridgestones that were on the car before those.
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Post by Andy C on Apr 20, 2022 14:05:43 GMT
My understanding is that they are totally different tyres from different historical ranges. The "S" models come from the old super sport range of warm weather performance oriented tyres, and the "PS" range has more basic origins. They both test very well with the "PS" being more of an all round road tyre and the "PSXS" being one for very high performance, its a competitor to other so-called "UUHP" tyres. I'm highly bored of both for two reasons: firstly "the internet" uses them interchangeably when they are totally different tyres from different ranges. Secondly the "S" model will always be the recommendation of "the internet" on any performance car forum, and anyone like myself that points out that the P Zero PS4, new Potenza Sport, and Conti SC7 all perform better in more recent tests will be roundly flamed. And thirdly I work for a division of Bridgestone, but my sentiments - for the above reasons - were already in place well before they bought us So what would you put on the back of an M5? Currently on PZeros but they just switch off totally below about 7 degrees. The fronts still have 5mm (emphasising the RWD bias) and I see no point in changing them just now. Conti SC7 Judging by that review ^ |
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Post by Martin on Apr 20, 2022 14:45:24 GMT
My understanding is that they are totally different tyres from different historical ranges. The "S" models come from the old super sport range of warm weather performance oriented tyres, and the "PS" range has more basic origins. They both test very well with the "PS" being more of an all round road tyre and the "PSXS" being one for very high performance, its a competitor to other so-called "UUHP" tyres. I'm highly bored of both for two reasons: firstly "the internet" uses them interchangeably when they are totally different tyres from different ranges. Secondly the "S" model will always be the recommendation of "the internet" on any performance car forum, and anyone like myself that points out that the P Zero PS4, new Potenza Sport, and Conti SC7 all perform better in more recent tests will be roundly flamed. And thirdly I work for a division of Bridgestone, but my sentiments - for the above reasons - were already in place well before they bought us So what would you put on the back of an M5? Currently on PZeros but they just switch off totally below about 7 degrees. The fronts still have 5mm (emphasising the RWD bias) and I see no point in changing them just now. I don't like mismatched tyres, so it would have to either be new PZeros (you can get the PZ4 with the * marking, although that will be a slightly mismatch....) or get a complete new set. |
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Post by johnc on Apr 20, 2022 15:50:41 GMT
So what would you put on the back of an M5? Currently on PZeros but they just switch off totally below about 7 degrees. The fronts still have 5mm (emphasising the RWD bias) and I see no point in changing them just now. I don't like mismatched tyres, so it would have to either be new PZeros (you can get the PZ4 with the * marking, although that will be a slightly mismatch....) or get a complete new set. I have swithered with that but £500/£600 for two tyres that have lots of life left just feels a bit wrong especially when we are supposed to be more environmentally friendly. |
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Post by Martin on Apr 20, 2022 15:57:14 GMT
I don't like mismatched tyres, so it would have to either be new PZeros (you can get the PZ4 with the * marking, although that will be a slightly mismatch....) or get a complete new set. I have swithered with that but £500/£600 for two tyres that have lots of life left just feels a bit wrong especially when we are supposed to be more environmentally friendly. I completely understand. I've just had a slow puncture, which thankfully could be repaired as with the level of wear and a permanent 4WD system, I'm pretty sure I would have needed to get a new set of 4 at £1,200. |
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Post by alf on Apr 21, 2022 8:58:44 GMT
I don't like mismatched tyres, so it would have to either be new PZeros (you can get the PZ4 with the * marking, although that will be a slightly mismatch....) or get a complete new set. I have swithered with that but £500/£600 for two tyres that have lots of life left just feels a bit wrong especially when we are supposed to be more environmentally friendly. I had much the same thought process recently. Given I can get the Potenza Sports around a third off the cheapest internet price (and in my sizes they are already significantly cheaper than PS4S and PZ) and was tempted to get fronts to go with the rears that have been so amazing. But the PZ3's on the front still have 4-5mm on them, and I've always liked them - it seems a waste. There are enough things costing more money presently............ PZ3 and PZ4 P zeroes would be a mismatch, they are totally different generations with different tread patterns and constructions. |
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Post by Martin on Apr 21, 2022 9:11:18 GMT
Put the Golf summer wheels/tyres back on at the weekend. It's still on the original set of tyres and they have 5mm (F) / 5.5mm (R) tread left. Not a surprise, as it's only done 21k of its total 38k miles on the summer tyres, but part of me had hoped I'd need to change them by now so I could try the PS4S, or given the review Andy posted, the Sport Contact 7. I've just had a look at the price and they are only £147 each, just £1 more than replacing like for like and £2 more than the PS4S with a 15% off deal. Given that although they're a couple of generations old now (Sport Contact 5), they are a decent tyre and it does seem like a waste.
Running winters continues to prove to be a sensible economical decision alongside the other benefits. The CC+ have 7mm/7.5mm of tread left after 17k miles, so there's some reasonable value left in the wheels/tyres plus I definitely would have had to buy a second set of summers by now.
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