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Post by garry on Apr 10, 2022 19:23:02 GMT
With the end of the etron lease approaching I’ve been out looking at suitable replacements. One thing that nearly two years with an EV has taught me is that unless you have huge range, EV driving can be stressful!
I put four cars on the list
porsche Taycan cross turismo 4s
bmw x5 45e
bmw iX50
new Range Rover p440e
I wrote about the Porsche test drive a while back. Summary is that I thought it felt like a proper Porsche, lacked a bit of range, lacked a bit of space, wasn’t an ideal companion to the boxster gts. So it’s a no.
Angie and I took a trip to our local bmw showroom to try the ix and x5. The ix is a brute - the one we drove did itself no favours by being painted in battleship grey. But the interior feels like it’s from the future - it looks like no other car I’ve sat in. The seats are very comfortable but they feel more ‘lounge’ than ‘car’. In fact the driver focus that you think of as part of the bmw dna simply isn’t there. Driving it and its very quiet, very fast, very comfortable. In fact it’s very ‘high end EV’ and I don’t think it would be obvious you’re in a bmw with badges removed. I liked it, but couldn’t love it. It hides its weight pretty well too. Range is ok in the iX50 (over 300 miles). As we arrived back at the dealership I was not feeling it, but Angie sealed the deal. As we walked away from it she took one last look and said “I’m sorry, but I can’t have something that ugly in my life’. Decision made. It’s a no.
Next into the x5 45e. Immediately this feels like a bmw in all the right ways. It’s got a driver focused feel to the cockpit. The one we tried had a few options, upgraded leather being the most noticeable, and it felt high end. On the road the x5 is very smooth. It rides really well, is very refined, but it doesn’t turn into a pudding when faced with a few bends. The transition from EV to combustion is very hard to spot. It would fit into my life very really well. Downsides for me were few and far between. The main one is that it’s getting on a bit and it felt a little dated after the ix. Also, with a very light sprinkling of options we were in the £80k’s. It’s a contender
Today we took a trip over to Bolton to try out the latest Range Rover. The one available was a lwb seven seat first edition p530. I’d want a p440e swb but I though this would give me a sense of the car. First of all, it’s a looker. It’s an evolution of the current model, but it looks very fresh and sharp. The interior is a big step up. Like everything nowadays most of the controls and via a central tablet, but the quality of the leather, the fit and finish, touches like the leather roof lining lift this car above anything the the prestige Germans do. It feels very special. First note to self - deployable side steps are a must have when your partner is 5 feet tall. On the move and the first thing that surprised me lack of intimidation. It’s massive, but it’s square and you sit high so it’s very easy to place. Show it some bends and it’s surprisingly agile. I think the rear wheel steering helps, but it’s way ahead of the previous model in this regard. On the motorway the only niggle is wind noise from the mirrors.I’m talking very minor niggle in a cabin that’s incredibly refined.The sales guy said that it was because everything else was so quiet and on reflection he was right. There’s no tyre rumble or any other intrusions. The ride is cosseting. I’d happily cross continents in this car. The v8:engine in the test car sounded quite fruity and delivered a decent kick, but this car is overwhelmingly one to relax in a make decent progress. It would suit a lazy diesel lump. Looking around the car back at the dealership, fit and finish looks excellent. As we walked back in Angie said “That’s my favourite’
delivery times for everything are silly. I’ve extended the etron lease by six months to try and mitigate this.
My heart wants the Range Rover as the perfect balance to the gts. My head says ‘have you seen the reliability ratings of land rover!’. Will decide over the next week.
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Post by bryan on Apr 10, 2022 19:46:08 GMT
If it helps you'll get half a day offroading at Eastor with the Range Rover
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 10, 2022 19:48:30 GMT
Gosh that went quickly. The only thing I have against the Range Rover is quite how enormous it is. I already find the Velar more than big enough plus the P400e version of that is a 2.0 which puts me off that. What’s the engine in a P440e full fat RR?
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Post by garry on Apr 10, 2022 20:40:26 GMT
Gosh that went quickly. The only thing I have against the Range Rover is quite how enormous it is. I already find the Velar more than big enough plus the P400e version of that is a 2.0 which puts me off that. What’s the engine in a P440e full fat RR? It’s a 3.0 6 pot. The size is a little less problematic I think outside of a big city |
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 11, 2022 8:43:20 GMT
Range Rover all day but if your running through the business, as its hybrid rather then full electric, is it not a hell of a lot more money then an electric car?
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Post by johnc on Apr 11, 2022 9:43:49 GMT
A client with a Taycan has just ordered an X5 45e to supplement his Taycan.
In the summer he can do a relatively easy 200 miles but in the winter with headlights, wipers, heated seats etc he had a few bum clenching drives where he got less than 150 miles driving on business and he just can't take the chance that he will be late for meetings if he has to stop to charge. However he really likes the drive on shorter journeys so he is keeping it and will use the X5 daily for slightly less tax effective but much more relaxing driving.
I can't pretend to be any kind of RR expert but most of the problems people seem to have with RR's are after pretty high miles and more than a few years. There will always be a few horror stories but the vast majority of serial RR buyers I know are very happy with them.
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Post by bryan on Apr 11, 2022 10:36:33 GMT
I think if you get the right RR you can just sneak 70 miles for cheap tax....
The RR phev system is very well integrated when it's working.....still no sign of back order part from Christmas for the Evoque. That said the dealers are good at fixing problems and it has yet to fail to proceed!
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Post by PG on Apr 11, 2022 10:54:37 GMT
Today we took a trip over to Bolton to try out the latest Range Rover. ......As we walked back in Angie said “That’s my favourite’ ......My heart wants the Range Rover as the perfect balance to the gts. I think you have both made your decision. Get that P440e on order. |
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Post by garry on Apr 11, 2022 10:56:41 GMT
Range Rover all day but if your running through the business, as its hybrid rather then full electric, is it not a hell of a lot more money then an electric car? The BIK tax looks like this: Full EV = 2% Co2 below 50 and range above 70 miles = 5% (The new range rover is in this band) Co2 below 50 and range above 40 miles = 8% (The x5 45e is in this band) So, roughly speaking £100k of EV will cost me £1k per year in tax. £80k worth of x5 will cost £2,500 per year in tax. £110k of Range rover will also cost £2,500 per year in tax. Pick the wrong wheels on the range rover and it drops down a band and costs an extra £1500 annually! |
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 11, 2022 11:56:05 GMT
It does annoy me that because in my profession company cars are not a thing, all of this BIK stuff is moot for me. As a private buyer who doesn’t commute by car there is very little financial incentive to go EV and absolutely none to going hybrid. Cost of buying a new hybrid or EV far outweighs any future fuel saving, so you really need to be prepared to fork out to “go green”.
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Post by johnc on Apr 11, 2022 12:54:11 GMT
It does annoy me that because in my profession company cars are not a thing, all of this BIK stuff is moot for me. As a private buyer who doesn’t commute by car there is very little financial incentive to go EV and absolutely none to going hybrid. Cost of buying a new hybrid or EV far outweighs any future fuel saving, so you really need to be prepared to fork out to “go green”. Is it not possible to negotiate a deal where you get a car for giving up a proportion of income? I know plenty of Solicitors who run cars owned through their businesses. |
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Post by Martin on Apr 11, 2022 13:01:04 GMT
It does annoy me that because in my profession company cars are not a thing, all of this BIK stuff is moot for me. As a private buyer who doesn’t commute by car there is very little financial incentive to go EV and absolutely none to going hybrid. Cost of buying a new hybrid or EV far outweighs any future fuel saving, so you really need to be prepared to fork out to “go green”. Why is that annoying? It means you’re not feeling financially pressured into choosing an EV or hybrid. I have the option of getting a company car, but I’m not interested at this point. Another option is for your wife’s employer (as I don’t think you’re an employee?) to offer a ‘green’ salary sacrifice scheme, which Lindsay’s does, but anything I might be interested is still pretty expensive and I don’t want to be locked into a lease. Back to the original point, no surprise that the RR was the preferred option and agree that it’s nowhere as difficult to place as some people think given the size. It’s a lot easier on narrow roads and tight parking places than the 7 series was. Despite having almost 2 trouble free years and agreeing with John’s point about older models. I would be concerned about reliability though as there’s a lot of new tech that really needs time to settle down. I think you’d need to spend a fair bit more than £110k to get the proper RR experience (no Windsor leather or pleather dash) as well and although I’ve not driven one, based on an L405 without dynamic response, that would be essential for me. So call it £120k for an SE, so you might as well spend another £8-9k and get the Autobiography…and then you’ll realise you might as well go for the P510e as that gets dynamic response pro as standard so is pretty much the same price but with slightly better residuals. |
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 11, 2022 13:07:46 GMT
Hybrid all day long (in terms of preference and moving under power……) for me. I love the interior of RRs but I’m a BMW blinkered idiot…..
The short journeys are eye opening in Eva. No electric charge; drove girls to Epsom for gym club in a 10mile round trip. Almost 50% running on pure electric is great but means you half the mpg to get a petrol only mpg and boy, it needs the electric assistance - but then that’s the point.
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Post by Martin on Apr 11, 2022 13:41:25 GMT
Hybrid all day long (in terms of preference and moving under power……) for me. I love the interior of RRs but I’m a BMW blinkered idiot….. The short journeys are eye opening in Eva. No electric charge; drove girls to Epsom for gym club in a 10mile round trip. Almost 50% running on pure electric is great but means you half the mpg to get a petrol only mpg and boy, it needs the electric assistance - but then that’s the point. It depends on your journey profile. For yours, I agree that hybrid makes a lot of sense, but less for me as most of my journeys are 150+ mile (return). I do have a few sites with electric points now, which does make a bit of a difference, but they are the ones closer to home. I know several people with a 530e who never plug them in, makes no sense at all to me as it’s the worse of all worlds. |
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 11, 2022 13:41:26 GMT
It does annoy me that because in my profession company cars are not a thing, all of this BIK stuff is moot for me. As a private buyer who doesn’t commute by car there is very little financial incentive to go EV and absolutely none to going hybrid. Cost of buying a new hybrid or EV far outweighs any future fuel saving, so you really need to be prepared to fork out to “go green”. Is it not possible to negotiate a deal where you get a car for giving up a proportion of income? I know plenty of Solicitors who run cars owned through their businesses. We don’t offer it as part of our employee benefit scheme, let alone the rather limited scheme offered to us partners. Likewise my wife works for a professional services firm as well, and they don’t offer company car schemes of any sort either. |
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 11, 2022 15:57:38 GMT
Surely as a Partner you can include your car lease somewhere, although I accept that like my place there are partners and PARTNERS. The books at companies house shows how much profit we make to be divved up: eye watering equity Ps. income.
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Post by Ben on Apr 11, 2022 18:06:32 GMT
Gosh that went quickly. The only thing I have against the Range Rover is quite how enormous it is. I already find the Velar more than big enough plus the P400e version of that is a 2.0 which puts me off that. What’s the engine in a P440e full fat RR? It’s a 3.0 6 pot. The size is a little less problematic I think outside of a big city Is it the straight six? Those are sweet. |
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Post by bryan on Apr 13, 2022 6:16:44 GMT
I think you’d need to spend a fair bit more than £110k to get the proper RR experience (no Windsor leather or pleather dash) as well and although I’ve not driven one, based on an L405 without dynamic response, that would be essential for me. So call it £120k for an SE, so you might as well spend another £8-9k and get the Autobiography…and then you’ll realise you might as well go for the P510e as that gets dynamic response pro as standard so is pretty much the same price but with slightly better residuals.[/quote]
You can just get a P550e with 70mile range by choosing one style of 20" wheel (the other, nicer 20" wheel puts it in 69mile range) no spare etc
Hopefully JLR have improved the situation from the one I had on the Evoque, when the range was confirmed at 40miles but subsequently recalibrated to 34miles prior to delivery costing me £1k in tax a year....
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 13, 2022 7:56:49 GMT
I think you’d need to spend a fair bit more than £110k to get the proper RR experience (no Windsor leather or pleather dash) as well and although I’ve not driven one, based on an L405 without dynamic response, that would be essential for me. So call it £120k for an SE, so you might as well spend another £8-9k and get the Autobiography…and then you’ll realise you might as well go for the P510e as that gets dynamic response pro as standard so is pretty much the same price but with slightly better residuals. You can just get a P550e with 70mile range by choosing one style of 20" wheel (the other, nicer 20" wheel puts it in 69mile range) no spare etc Hopefully JLR have improved the situation from the one I had on the Evoque, when the range was confirmed at 40miles but subsequently recalibrated to 34miles prior to delivery costing me £1k in tax a year....[/quote] And I guess If your going to spend a huge amount on a Range Rover you don't want to compromise on the spec. |
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Post by bryan on Apr 13, 2022 8:43:53 GMT
Personally I'd rather not give the taxman another £1500 a year.....I'm sure you could spend some of the savings upgrading the wheels in the future if you wanted to. I doubt it is allowed but do they check at MOT time the car is on the wheels it was sold with?
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 13, 2022 8:57:00 GMT
Personally I'd rather not give the taxman another £1500 a year..... Hi Mrs Sunak. How's things?  |
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Post by garry on Apr 13, 2022 10:50:04 GMT
Personally I'd rather not give the taxman another £1500 a year.....I'm sure you could spend some of the savings upgrading the wheels in the future if you wanted to. I doubt it is allowed but do they check at MOT time the car is on the wheels it was sold with? I don’t think there are any rules regarding upgrading wheels post delivery. My plan was to get the small wheels to ensure I get the magic 70 mile range, stick some winter tyres on them and buy some bigger wheels with summer tyres. Not checked the legality of this. Anyone know if the taxman will be interested in this? |
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Post by bryan on Apr 13, 2022 11:18:47 GMT
I suspect they would as it will change the vehicle but how will they ever know? It would also apply if you put cross climates onto a car sold with the low rolling resistance eco tyres to get a lower CO2 - but I don't think it is a check item at the MOT?
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Post by Martin on Apr 13, 2022 11:27:14 GMT
Personally I'd rather not give the taxman another £1500 a year.....I'm sure you could spend some of the savings upgrading the wheels in the future if you wanted to. I doubt it is allowed but do they check at MOT time the car is on the wheels it was sold with? I don’t think there are any rules regarding upgrading wheels post delivery. My plan was to get the small wheels to ensure I get the magic 70 mile range, stick some winter tyres on them and buy some bigger wheels with summer tyres. Not checked the legality of this. Anyone know if the taxman will be interested in this? Or you could sell the wheels as there’s bound to be someone wanting an L460 wheel on their L322…. It will come with All Season tyres., so no need to be messing around changing wheels. |
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Post by johnc on Apr 13, 2022 12:05:45 GMT
Personally I'd rather not give the taxman another £1500 a year.....I'm sure you could spend some of the savings upgrading the wheels in the future if you wanted to. I doubt it is allowed but do they check at MOT time the car is on the wheels it was sold with? I don’t think there are any rules regarding upgrading wheels post delivery. My plan was to get the small wheels to ensure I get the magic 70 mile range, stick some winter tyres on them and buy some bigger wheels with summer tyres. Not checked the legality of this. Anyone know if the taxman will be interested in this? All that matters is what is on the V5. After that you can put Carlos Fandango wheels on and the taxman will say nothing. |
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Post by Martin on Apr 13, 2022 12:09:50 GMT
This is the description of Dynamic response pro, posted mainly because I wonder if not having it will reduce the range and you’d end up like Bryan? Not that you should buy a RR without it, as you’d regret it at every corner / roundabout….and LR refer to it as ‘crucial’!
The New Range Rover is the first Land Rover to feature Dynamic Response Pro – an advanced 48-volt electronic active roll control system that is faster-acting and more efficient than hydraulic systems and has an industry-leading torque capacity of 1,400Nm – with 900Nm available within 200 milliseconds.
This advanced technology manages body roll from lateral acceleration by continually optimising the damping forces on the front and rear anti-roll bars and has been engineered by Land Rover to work in harmony with other chassis systems. In Dynamic mode, body roll is further reduced for sharper responses and enhanced agility while the anti-roll bars can de-couple in off-road scenarios to maximise wheel travel and improve ride comfort. The system’s actuators even help the wheels to follow the terrain, improving traction on undulating surfaces.
As well as supporting capability and comfort, the electrified system also contributes to overall efficiency and provides a CO2 saving of up to 8g/km compared to previous hydraulic systems. In this way, Dynamic Response Pro is a crucial element in delivering the New Range Rover’s efficiency, composure and all-conquering capability.
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Post by bryan on Apr 13, 2022 12:38:29 GMT
Interestingly, if you add the dynamic gubbins to the p440e it drops to 69miles regardless of wheel but on the p510e you can get 70 miles with one wheel style.
So the gumph about helping co2 doesn't seem to translate to range
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Post by Martin on Apr 13, 2022 13:13:54 GMT
Interestingly, if you add the dynamic gubbins to the p440e it drops to 69miles regardless of wheel but on the p510e you can get 70 miles with one wheel style. So the gumph about helping co2 doesn't seem to translate to range None of that makes sense really, but that assumes they’re providing curate information….. |
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 13, 2022 13:15:05 GMT
An item so utterly crucial to both the environment and the capability of the car that it's not standard....... |
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Post by Martin on Apr 13, 2022 13:49:45 GMT
An item so utterly crucial to both the environment and the capability of the car that it's not standard.......  Exactly! It was standard when the car was launched, but they took it off the lower powered engines after a couple of months. |
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