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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2022 13:23:19 GMT
I think the majority of folk when talking about cyclists, are talking about the stupid and the belligerent minority. Several times I have been over a bonnet now when crossing the road (When clear) only to find the car on my left has accelerated into a (Non existent) space and completely ignoring the fact that there are pedestrians about because that second or two saved is worth it. Obviously I am not. Essentially this whole thing is being driven by extremist views on all sides like most problems.
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Post by Tim on Jan 31, 2022 14:17:37 GMT
Agree with Mike, there are a lot of thoughtless cyclists who appear more than happy to put themselves in danger - e.g. the ones who go down the inside of trucks at roundabouts or just go through red lights.
Driving standards have taken a massive fall though and there are plenty of instances of them almost ignoring cyclists. One of the worst I saw was someone who came round a blind bend behind a cyclist and as soon as they could see they passed even though I was coming the other way. They barely gave the cyclist any room. What made it worse was that the offender had 2 bikes on his bike rack so in my eyes he was a double tosser.
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Post by johnc on Jan 31, 2022 15:25:42 GMT
I have a question. Some of the pedestrian crossings in the local town weren't working over the weekend. One, in particular is right next to a junction. When there were pedestrians waiting to cross should I have stopped to let them go (none of them walked out)? In a word, yes. If you are turning into a road and someone is crossing or waiting to cross you should give way to them.
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Post by Tim on Jan 31, 2022 17:02:36 GMT
Ok. I was actually following the main road through the town though so the junction was to my right.
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Post by johnc on Jan 31, 2022 19:09:55 GMT
I seem to be about the only pro-cyclist on here and honestly I'm not sure if I will change anything when cycling, I already tried to take charge of lanes a bit in very slow traffic in one way systems and so on, on anything quicker I'll just be crapping myself and hiding from the traffic, no way will I be riding further out into the road on country lanes. Most car driver's version of "overtaking" on country lanes is just to pull around you regardless of visibility, guess what they do if someone comes the other way? Yep, collision with soft flesh on the flank of their car is seen as preferable to a head-on, and the whole situation made out to be the cyclists fault. Car drivers are so fucking shit at dealing with cyclists/seeing anything in front of them that when turning right I often get off the road on the left and wait for nothing to be coming then cross, even with loads of space if I put my arm out and pull into them middle of the road its like I'm invisible, horrid coloured clothing and lights and all! Running/walking I - like Big BLue - thought this was the law already. I was nearly knocked down twice in one run recently, running along a road in Thatcham with loads of little side turnings. Twice I checked over my shoulder to see a fast moving, non-indicating car, started to run out across the mouth of the side road, and it screeched into the road and I damn nearly ran into the side of it. What they thought I would do (I was running not walking after all), and how they thought I would realise they were turning in when going that quickly and not indicating, I do not know. I have always given way to pedestrians who are about to step out, when turning into a side road, my driving instructor told me this was the law and I believed him! The Dutch way of opening car doors is excellent - when driving and cycling I've had people open doors on me with cars coming the other way and not enough room to go around them. I've been hit by opening doors on the nearside walking/running too. The trouble is so many people are unobservant self-centered belligerent arseholes, I can't see the law change making any difference. I would hope all of us would manage to avoid the above regardless. I am neither pro or anti cyclists in general although there are always those ones who are so arrogant that they deserve no respect. My issue with the new rules is that there are now clear and enforceable distances you have to leave cyclists when overtaking (1.5 mtrs under 30mph and 2 mtrs when over 30mph). On some of the road I travel on, say out to Drymen, my car is about 1.5 to 2 feet narrower than my side of the road. These roads are also regularly populated by groups of cyclists and often very large groups of cyclists. If, as is common, they ride 2 to 3 abreast and take up the majority of one side of the road, how can I pass them? If I try to pass at under 30mph, it's just not happening before something comes the other way or a corner appears. If I pass at over 30mph I need to give them 2 mtrs when the space is not available. Does that mean I am not allowed to overtake and have to trundle along at 15mph for 15 miles?
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 31, 2022 20:04:45 GMT
^ I Understand that the new regs also give distances for passing pedestrians on roads with no pavements. In my current job, when I go for a lunchtime walk there's no pavement on both sides of the road for the first couple of hundred yards and passing vehicles give almost zero space. There are some places where there is a small grassy embankment and even occasionally when I stand on that, traffic passes unbelievably close, the bigger cars (such as SUV's) generally being the worst offenders.
Just round the corner from home, there's no pavement on one side of the road for a few yards, and I've been hit by a passing car (a Corsa) once, enough to turn his door mirror round to face the side window, and leave a bruise on my arm despite nothing coming in the other direction at the time
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Post by Alex on Jan 31, 2022 20:28:46 GMT
Well I almost got knocked down by a cyclist earlier on when crossing a zebra crossing in London. The car coming along the road stopped but the cyclist they'd just overtaken went around them and straight over the crossing. Luckily I wasn't staring on my phone like most pedestrians in the City do.
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Post by Boxer6 on Jan 31, 2022 22:01:14 GMT
Well I almost got knocked down by a cyclist earlier on when crossing a zebra crossing in London. The car coming along the road stopped but the cyclist they'd just overtaken went around them and straight over the crossing. Luckily I wasn't staring on my phone like most pedestrians in the City do. And that's exactly the sort of cyclist that gives the (apparent) well-behaved majority a bad name. It's also exactly the type who deserves to have a nice big stick flung into his front spokes while carrying out such an example of blatant two-wheeled bellendery.
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 31, 2022 22:28:09 GMT
I seem to be about the only pro-cyclist on here and honestly I'm not sure if I will change anything when cycling, I already tried to take charge of lanes a bit in very slow traffic in one way systems and so on, on anything quicker I'll just be crapping myself and hiding from the traffic, no way will I be riding further out into the road on country lanes. Most car driver's version of "overtaking" on country lanes is just to pull around you regardless of visibility, guess what they do if someone comes the other way? Yep, collision with soft flesh on the flank of their car is seen as preferable to a head-on, and the whole situation made out to be the cyclists fault. Car drivers are so fucking shit at dealing with cyclists/seeing anything in front of them that when turning right I often get off the road on the left and wait for nothing to be coming then cross, even with loads of space if I put my arm out and pull into them middle of the road its like I'm invisible, horrid coloured clothing and lights and all! Running/walking I - like Big BLue - thought this was the law already. I was nearly knocked down twice in one run recently, running along a road in Thatcham with loads of little side turnings. Twice I checked over my shoulder to see a fast moving, non-indicating car, started to run out across the mouth of the side road, and it screeched into the road and I damn nearly ran into the side of it. What they thought I would do (I was running not walking after all), and how they thought I would realise they were turning in when going that quickly and not indicating, I do not know. I have always given way to pedestrians who are about to step out, when turning into a side road, my driving instructor told me this was the law and I believed him! The Dutch way of opening car doors is excellent - when driving and cycling I've had people open doors on me with cars coming the other way and not enough room to go around them. I've been hit by opening doors on the nearside walking/running too. The trouble is so many people are unobservant self-centered belligerent arseholes, I can't see the law change making any difference. I would hope all of us would manage to avoid the above regardless. I am neither pro or anti cyclists in general although there are always those ones who are so arrogant that they deserve no respect. My issue with the new rules is that there are now clear and enforceable distances you have to leave cyclists when overtaking (1.5 mtrs under 30mph and 2 mtrs when over 30mph). On some of the road I travel on, say out to Drymen, my car is about 1.5 to 2 feet narrower than my side of the road. These roads are also regularly populated by groups of cyclists and often very large groups of cyclists. If, as is common, they ride 2 to 3 abreast and take up the majority of one side of the road, how can I pass them? If I try to pass at under 30mph, it's just not happening before something comes the other way or a corner appears. If I pass at over 30mph I need to give them 2 mtrs when the space is not available. Does that mean I am not allowed to overtake and have to trundle along at 15mph for 15 miles? I'm a cyclist and I am of the opinion that I need to ride defensively on the road - i.e regardless of the rules, I don't put myself in any situation that can get me knocked off. In the situation John mentions, I would overtake anyway and do it quickly and keep on the right of the white line. Cyclist hugging white line is clearly not bothered about oncoming traffic so shouldn't complain about overtaking traffic as long as they are on the other side.
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 31, 2022 22:39:55 GMT
I have nothing against cyclists or cycling in general. I was wearing Lycra and doing training rides in the late 80s and early 90s, long before helmets, body cameras and arguments about rights of way existed. You deferred to cars, vans and lorries because they hurt and that additional awareness is what’s completely lacking in a percentage of current day cyclists. These days road cyclists are in cliques:
- clueless airheads, generally ladies or new-graduate male city riders that are unaware of the fact roads are dangerous and big metal objects hurt - arrogant arseholes, generally men that have suddenly felt empowered due to some changes in societal attitudes. These are the ones that generally jump lights, shout at other road users and have a sense of road entitlement that belies their vulnerability in the face of an 18 wheeler. - weekend TdF wannabes, generally men that have more money than sense and think they’ll improve themselves spending money on nitrogen to fill their tyres. Often ride in packs and imagine they’re gaining aero like a 50kph 50-rider peloton when they’re averaging 29kph in a group of 7. Often commute as well and act like they’re attempting a time trial up Mont Ventoux each day to relieve the ennui of their lives. - old school commuter riders, generally well to do and middle aged or live in some bygone era and drink tea from bone china at 4pm with battenburg cake. Never owned a helmet. Otherwise known as normal cyclists. - thugs, generally male yoof who ride 80% of their journeys on one wheel. When killed by a car they crossed a t- junction against all sensibility everyone says what a great son / nephew / friend / nice bloke they were even though they had a pocket full of wraps, a switchblade, three mobile phones and £2k in used notes on them at the time of the accident.
There are many others, mainly children - because don’t forget since the advent of the internal combustion engine bicycles became toys and nothing will ever alter that fact. My main issue with the legislation, the arrogant ones and the clueless ones is that having commuted on two wheels for decades I never expected my own lane, never thought to go through a red light or a zebra crossing in use and I always accept my vulnerability against the weather, pedestrians, cars, animals, lorries and road debris. A London circuit judge I play squash with calls cyclists “the entitled filth” because of these things. He drives a Bentley.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 1, 2022 6:43:16 GMT
I’m thoroughly pissed off with cyclists silently speeding up behind me and brushing past without warning, when I’m out walking the dog. No warning, no bell. Twats. My patience is running thin and the next one that does it is going in the hedge. These changes are a cunt’s charter.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Feb 1, 2022 7:49:21 GMT
Can someone please tell me what the new highway code says about a situation I found myself in this morning when going to buy some lunch: I came down to a set of traffic lights which were at green and presumably the pedestrian lights showed a red man. I didn't make any effort to slow down as I approached the lights until 3 people just walked straight across the junction without stopping and I hit the brakes hard. One of them gave me a shake of the head and they effectively forced me to stop. Typically, the lights then changed to red and I got stuck for a full cycle. I wasn't speeding and was only travelling at about 25mph. Historically pedestrians weren't bound by the red or green man but surely now, to give some certainty to the whole pedestrian issue, pedestrians should be subject to jaywalking charges if they cross on a red man. Surely the new highway code doesn't give pedestrians the right to walk straight out at junctions regardless of the traffic lights because from the look on the guy's face that is exactly what he thought his rights were. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any guidance for pedestrians at light controlled junctions. Common sense would say they should wait until the lights change but that's usually lacking.
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Post by Big Blue on Feb 1, 2022 10:26:39 GMT
So who wins here?
Pedestrian crossing minor road at a junction with major one. Cyclist wants to turn left into road.
I have to assume if it’s a cyclist of the entitled variety vs. a pedestrian of the entitled variety a shouting match ensues.
Any other groups and common sense, courtesy and self preservation prevail and we live our lives normally. Which is basically what the Highway Code should have in 24pt bold as a preface, if not on the front cover!
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Post by garry on Feb 1, 2022 10:40:38 GMT
I’m thoroughly pissed off with cyclists silently speeding up behind me and brushing past without warning, when I’m out walking the dog. No warning, no bell. Twats. My patience is running thin and the next one that does it is going in the hedge. These changes are a cunt’s charter. The new rules try to address this. To be honest, I have no idea why the new cycling rules are causing so much uproar. Cyclists are being told to ride more defensively (i.e. Don't ride in the gutter and own your road space on narrow sections and at junctions) and drivers are being told to give them adequate space. To play devils advocate the latter part would be unnecessary if drivers behaved themselves. I lose count how often I'm overtaken by cars with inches to spare. The new rules won't change how I cycle or how I drive because I already follow these rules. I would hope most people on here do too. The one I'm unsure about is giving pedestrians priority at junctions. I can imagine turning off a busy shopping street might be nigh on impossible.
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Post by Tim on Feb 1, 2022 11:00:38 GMT
As a kid I'm sure I was taught that a driver should give cyclists 6 feet of clearance in case they fall off. That's been in my head for about 45 years and I have no idea where I heard it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 11:11:03 GMT
I don't cycle any more, I just can't. I do the rest and have always given space for other users which makes me unpopular at times with much hooting and nonsense but, this charter seems to give the idiots 'right' which they wear like a shield of "You can't touch me" but as has been said elsewhere that armour or shield is no use against two or more tons of vehicle. How is this going to affect the poor sod with months of waiting for a court case and potentially a manslaughter verdict? Is this a way of rewarding the folk with no spatial awareness and a device clapped to their heads? Madness and as mentioned I have several times inspected bonnets and the road surface. I was going to say we should use common sense but that would make me the pillock.
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Post by Big Blue on Feb 1, 2022 11:22:07 GMT
Agree with Garry: just continue to drive and behave normally and with consideration for other road users. Pedestrians have always been a law unto themselves in London anyway, myself included. Interesting on the letting pedestrians cross issue: in the old days (there’s a sign of me getting old) the crossings at Sloane Square by Peter Jones were all zebras. Because of the rules on zebra crossings cars really were often at a complete standstill at what is a busy junction. It’s now been traffic signal crossings for well over a decade and everyone knows their place, cars and pedestrians alike. Maybe not some cyclists 😉
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Post by johnc on Feb 1, 2022 14:25:10 GMT
As a kid I'm sure I was taught that a driver should give cyclists 6 feet of clearance in case they fall off. That's been in my head for about 45 years and I have no idea where I heard it. You're right Tim. The Highway code used to say you had to leave sufficient space to allow a cyclist to fall in to the road. The problem is the new rules are now traffic law and cyclists are being encouraged to carry cameras and report those not keeping to the rules (or their interpretation of it).
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Post by Martin on Feb 1, 2022 15:19:57 GMT
As a kid I'm sure I was taught that a driver should give cyclists 6 feet of clearance in case they fall off. That's been in my head for about 45 years and I have no idea where I heard it. It’s the same rule when driving in Thailand, but substitute mopeds for bikes. I’ve had several people clash (usually when talking to each other) and fall off right in front of me.
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Post by PG on Feb 2, 2022 12:46:33 GMT
I think the only thing we can be sure of is that there are numpties, airheads, selfish fuckers and the militant wing using every form of transport available - from foot-power through to 16 wheeled horse-power.
The new rules are probably aimed at the numpties and airheads, who of course will never read them, or if they do will not understand them. The selfish fuckers will just continue as before. And of course the militant wings will use the new hierarchy and rules to further their hate of anyone not in their particular mode of transport.
Oh, joy....
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Post by Roadsterstu on Feb 2, 2022 16:54:59 GMT
I’m thoroughly pissed off with cyclists silently speeding up behind me and brushing past without warning, when I’m out walking the dog. No warning, no bell. Twats. My patience is running thin and the next one that does it is going in the hedge. These changes are a cunt’s charter. The new rules try to address this. To be honest, I have no idea why the new cycling rules are causing so much uproar. Cyclists are being told to ride more defensively (i.e. Don't ride in the gutter and own your road space on narrow sections and at junctions) and drivers are being told to give them adequate space. To play devils advocate the latter part would be unnecessary if drivers behaved themselves. I lose count how often I'm overtaken by cars with inches to spare. The new rules won't change how I cycle or how I drive because I already follow these rules. I would hope most people on here do too. The one I'm unsure about is giving pedestrians priority at junctions. I can imagine turning off a busy shopping street might be nigh on impossible. Most of the wittering on Facebook seems to be that cyclists should now have to pay "road tax" and have insurance. Muppets. This also appears to play very much into the hands of those militant cyclists. There are those two polar opposites and I'm most of us here fall into the sensible middle ground that will drive or ride just as we always have done, with consideration for other road users, particularly those that are most vulnerable.
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