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Post by johnc on Jan 12, 2022 15:07:38 GMT
I think some local school kids have got hold of the new Highway code and decided to create merry hell. As you will all be aware, from the end of the month, pedestrians have the right of way at junctions and even if you are turning off a main road, you have to stop if there is a pedestrian crossing (cue the rear ending of many cars!).
Anyway, what brought this to mind was a considerable amount of horn blowing outside the office at lunchtime followed by some loud shouting in a broad Glasgow accent with more that a couple of F words in there. I looked out my window and there were 5 or 6 teenage boys who were walking across the road, spread out and when they reached the other side, they were turning round and walking back to the other side. It was only when a guy in a double cab pickup got out his cab shouting, with something that looked like a torque wrench in his hand, that they scarpered.
Is this what they call an unintended consequence of poor legislation?
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 12, 2022 15:20:58 GMT
I’m confused. I always thought if you were a pedestrian crossing a minor road then cars turning off the major road into it had to give way. In fact I’ve always done this and car drivers have never run me over.
Looking at the changes it appears to relate to crossings as well as “starting or waiting to cross” in my example - the rule has changed from “already crossing”. One of my favourite games of zebra crossings in London as a teenager was to cross and watch the cars slamming their brakes on.
Far more concerning will be the abuse of the “hierarchy of road users” by those cyclists that have no intent of being responsible for their own safety already!
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 12, 2022 15:35:44 GMT
I was in Hexham yesterday approaching a roundabout and three pedestrians were at the central reservation.
One of them looked me in the eye and stepped off with his hand flat towards me and they all crossed the road. I don't think stepping in front of moving traffic with impunity is how this is intended.
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Post by johnc on Jan 12, 2022 15:51:41 GMT
Far more concerning will be the abuse of the “hierarchy of road users” by those cyclists that have no intent of being responsible for their own safety already! I am also concerned about the cyclists who fly up the inside or the outside, at speed, regardless of the indicators being shown by the car. There are enough things to take in to account when turning left or right in a busy city environment without having to take full responsibility for the cycling moron who bowls up the inside, appearing out of nowhere, ignoring the car's intention to turn left. If pedestrians have right of way in a city, the traffic will come to a complete stop at busy times. |
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 12, 2022 19:59:33 GMT
I’m confused. I always thought if you were a pedestrian crossing a minor road then cars turning off the major road into it had to give way. That is my understanding too, and so far nobody has run me over.... |
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Post by Stuntman on Jan 12, 2022 20:46:58 GMT
Yes. As a result of this change in the law here may be quite a few pedestrians who are legally in the right, but physically and indeed even mortally somewhat compromised.
It's a tricky one. While I'm aware of this change and consciously acting upon it, I don't think it's particularly good rule to expect motorists always to give way to pedestrians who may be about to cross, as well as people who are actually starting to cross, or actually crossing. Some pedestrians and some cyclists will just behave in a perversely selfish manner without consideration for other road users, and that's just not very British.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 22:02:40 GMT
I know (Or is that no) that has been the case for a long time but I have so very nearly come to grief I see the driving standards of a few (I hope) who look to the right and then pull out right at a pedestrian. JUST to get there before the car approaching from THEIR right. Like it is some form of race.
Perhaps this is just a way to try and get people thinking. Not likely to work until we have a certain level or mortality as per.
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Post by Alex on Jan 13, 2022 6:44:16 GMT
Far more concerning will be the abuse of the “hierarchy of road users” by those cyclists that have no intent of being responsible for their own safety already! I am also concerned about the cyclists who fly up the inside or the outside, at speed, regardless of the indicators being shown by the car. There are enough things to take in to account when turning left or right in a busy city environment without having to take full responsibility for the cycling moron who bowls up the inside, appearing out of nowhere, ignoring the car's intention to turn left. If pedestrians have right of way in a city, the traffic will come to a complete stop at busy times. The way a lot of cycle lanes are laid down on the roads around London you are technically having to cross the cycle lane to turn left therefore it would be argued that a cyclist in that lane shouldn't have to slow down to let you across. In theory it should only be a problem if you've just overtaken said cyclist rather than holding back a few seconds and turning after they've passed the junction and the sort of twats who see cyclists as an obstacle they simply MUST overtake regardless of risk are the sort who this should be aimed at, but you will have to keep an eye out for the sort of lycra clad MAMIL who thinks they're on a stage of the Tour de France. |
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Post by Blarno on Jan 13, 2022 8:59:38 GMT
Are pedestrians going to look up from their phones before they cross or just carry on stepping out?
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 13, 2022 9:45:49 GMT
Some pedestrians and some cyclists will just behave in a perversely selfish manner without consideration for other [road user]s, and that's just not very British. I’m afraid to advise you all that that kind of behaviour is very British indeed. Look at our Prime Minister and Prince Andrew as leading examples from the elected and the inherited sectors. Then look wider and consider motorway lane discipline, speeding, youth culture, drug culture, cancel culture, mob behaviour, holidaymakers abroad ….. I could go on but won’t. The historic ideal of behaving in a British manner being positive was based on media reporting of the time only considering a very narrow section of society (largely those that could read!) and not the more populous and less well behaved masses. Because of this historic reporting the British ideal has remained and made it appear that we are a cut above others, another factor being that the comparators were against the Empire nations who were barely out of grass skirts and trading their children and wives for shiny beads but in essence we’re just as much a bunch of selfish, crooked peasants as any other developed nation. Apart from Americans: they’re fucked up. |
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 13, 2022 10:41:44 GMT
What Jeff says.
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Post by PG on Jan 13, 2022 13:49:30 GMT
Apart from Americans: they’re fucked up. On road behaviour, I've found some parts of the US to be way more civilised than most European countries. Can you imagine how turning left on red (our version of right on red in the US) and 4-way stop junctions would fare in the UK? Apart from roundabouts. The US are totally fucked with roundabouts. Haven't a clue generally. The "priorite a droit" French (and Spanish) rules were also really perverse. Not sure if they still operate as widely now with more traffic on the roads. But you could be driving along a main road in a town and somebody joining from the right had priority over you. Re the OP, I think that militant wing of the cyclists world will revel in this new hierarchy. Lorries turning left in cities will basically case gridlock as they'll have to wait for ever, surely? |
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Post by humphreythepug on Jan 13, 2022 13:52:47 GMT
I’m confused. I always thought if you were a pedestrian crossing a minor road then cars turning off the major road into it had to give way. In fact I’ve always done this and car drivers have never run me over. Looking at the changes it appears to relate to crossings as well as “starting or waiting to cross” in my example - the rule has changed from “already crossing”. One of my favourite games of zebra crossings in London as a teenager was to cross and watch the cars slamming their brakes on. Far more concerning will be the abuse of the “hierarchy of road users” by those cyclists that have no intent of being responsible for their own safety already! In my experience when out on my daily dog walk before work, I would say most drivers aren't aware that they are actually supposed to give way to a pedestrian already crossing over, given the speed that they approach and take a minor road turning, that I am waiting at, as there is no chance that they would be able to stop and not hit me if I decided to just carry on walking across. I always look over my shoulder to check to see if there is an approaching car, if there is I always stop and wait for them to turn in, however it is amazing the amount of pedestrians who just stroll on over, without so much as a glance back to see if there is a car coming, when out driving I am always alert to pedestrians approaching a crossing of a road that I want to turn into, particularly if they are on their phone or have headphones/ear pods in/on as I know they just won't even so much as glance back to check. |
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 13, 2022 14:55:19 GMT
The "priorite a droit" French (and Spanish) rules were also really perverse. Not sure if they still operate as widely now with more traffic on the roads. But you could be driving along a main road in a town and somebody joining from the right had priority over you. Less common in France and gone from all roundabouts now (with many still having signs saying “Vous n’avez la prioritaire”). In German town back streets the priority to the right still exists and in my mum’s town in France there are a couple where this rule is keenly observed. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 13, 2022 16:18:55 GMT
The "priorite a droit" French (and Spanish) rules were also really perverse. Not sure if they still operate as widely now with more traffic on the roads. But you could be driving along a main road in a town and somebody joining from the right had priority over you. Less common in France and gone from all roundabouts now (with many still having signs saying “Vous n’avez la prioritaire”). In German town back streets the priority to the right still exists and in my mum’s town in France there are a couple where this rule is keenly observed. Re: the "priorite a droit" rule in France; it always amused me the number of French car with dents in their front right wings due to this ridiculous rule. WRT the new Highway Code rules; anything that encourages pedestrians to step out into the road, paying no heed to any oncoming traffic, and glued to their phone screens, is a recipe for disaster. |
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Post by Boxer6 on Jan 13, 2022 16:32:21 GMT
Personally I've always had an aversion to running into/over pedestrians, especially in my own car; far too much mess to clean up, and the stringy bits tend to clog up the radiator grille something awful!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 17:55:12 GMT
Not to mention all the bloody bits on the engine, they cook, they stink but are MURDER to remove. Gladly Bess has none of this just a bluff front to jet wash off. Mind you, I heard there can be some nice crackling to be had. Bar b'd road obstructing protestor anyone~? Just add a little extra ketchup and seasoning.
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Post by Boxer6 on Jan 13, 2022 19:42:59 GMT
Not to mention all the bloody bits on the engine, they cook, they stink but are MURDER to remove. Gladly Bess has none of this just a bluff front to jet wash off. Mind you, I heard there can be some nice crackling to be had. Bar b'd road obstructing protestor anyone~? Just add a little extra ketchup and seasoning. Ketchup? Oh dear .. .. ..  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 19:48:44 GMT
Not everyone goes for a good mustard.
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Post by Stuntman on Jan 14, 2022 21:28:54 GMT
Some pedestrians and some cyclists will just behave in a perversely selfish manner without consideration for other [road user]s, and that's just not very British. I’m afraid to advise you all that that kind of behaviour is very British indeed. Look at our Prime Minister and Prince Andrew as leading examples from the elected and the inherited sectors. Then look wider and consider motorway lane discipline, speeding, youth culture, drug culture, cancel culture, mob behaviour, holidaymakers abroad ….. I could go on but won’t. The historic ideal of behaving in a British manner being positive was based on media reporting of the time only considering a very narrow section of society (largely those that could read!) and not the more populous and less well behaved masses. Because of this historic reporting the British ideal has remained and made it appear that we are a cut above others, another factor being that the comparators were against the Empire nations who were barely out of grass skirts and trading their children and wives for shiny beads but in essence we’re just as much a bunch of selfish, crooked peasants as any other developed nation. Apart from Americans: they’re fucked up. You are correct of course. Most Brits are selfish so-and-sos. But it's still a shame though, we should aspire to the utopian notion of 'British fair play'. Lead by example! |
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 14, 2022 22:59:34 GMT
Yeah: this selfishness came up in a Twitter thread about Smart Motorways and the madness of getting rid of the hard shoulder. I pointed out it was doubly mad as the UK doesn’t have the “emergency corridor” protocol (8 countries in Europe use it: in a motorway traffic jam you move as right as possible in the middle and/or right lane and as left as possible in the left) and another Tweeter pointed out in the UK the corridor would immediately be filled with selfish wankers looking to queue jump.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jan 20, 2022 10:44:32 GMT
I’m confused. I always thought if you were a pedestrian crossing a minor road then cars turning off the major road into it had to give way. In fact I’ve always done this and car drivers have never run me over. Looking at the changes it appears to relate to crossings as well as “starting or waiting to cross” in my example - the rule has changed from “already crossing”. One of my favourite games of zebra crossings in London as a teenager was to cross and watch the cars slamming their brakes on. Far more concerning will be the abuse of the “hierarchy of road users” by those cyclists that have no intent of being responsible for their own safety already! In my experience when out on my daily dog walk before work, I would say most drivers aren't aware that they are actually supposed to give way to a pedestrian already crossing over, given the speed that they approach and take a minor road turning, that I am waiting at, as there is no chance that they would be able to stop and not hit me if I decided to just carry on walking across. I always look over my shoulder to check to see if there is an approaching car, if there is I always stop and wait for them to turn in, however it is amazing the amount of pedestrians who just stroll on over, without so much as a glance back to see if there is a car coming, when out driving I am always alert to pedestrians approaching a crossing of a road that I want to turn into, particularly if they are on their phone or have headphones/ear pods in/on as I know they just won't even so much as glance back to check. Given that sone pedestrians are totally arrogant and generally won't look where they are going, I always assume they will step out. They don't seem to realise they also have a duty as a road user. |
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Post by johnc on Jan 20, 2022 11:16:55 GMT
I read about another change relating to cyclists and roundabouts: car drivers are not allowed to overtake cyclists on a roundabout if it impedes the cyclist in any way. On a two lane roundabout cyclists who are turning right are allowed to stick to the left lane and motorists must give way to them when they cross over an exit. So when it comes to culpability we have a cyclist who stays in the left lane turning right, who is in the right and a motorist doing the same will be in the wrong. Some drivers have serious difficulty knowing their left from their right, let alone the correct indication on a roundabout. How the hell are they going to fathom this lot out?
There are going to be a lot of prosecuted motorists and a lot of very hurt cyclists. Whoever thought up these rules is a complete ass.
I nearly forgot - when passing a cyclist at under 30mph you should give him/her 1.5mtrs space. If overtaking at more than 30mph you need to give them 2 mtrs.
On some of the roads the cyclist packs ride around here, they take up the whole side of the road. If you were to overtake them and leave them 2 mtrs, you would be driving through the field on the other side of the road. Does this mean that I am not allowed to pass any cyclist or pack of cyclists who don't/won't ride on the left? My wife was stuck behind a lycra warrior for a couple of miles last week because he cycled about a foot inside the white line in the middle of the road for no good reason other than to piss of the motorists. There is going to be a real social problem here if the cyclists decide that they own the roads.
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Post by johnc on Jan 29, 2022 15:02:23 GMT
Can someone please tell me what the new highway code says about a situation I found myself in this morning when going to buy some lunch: I came down to a set of traffic lights which were at green and presumably the pedestrian lights showed a red man. I didn't make any effort to slow down as I approached the lights until 3 people just walked straight across the junction without stopping and I hit the brakes hard. One of them gave me a shake of the head and they effectively forced me to stop. Typically, the lights then changed to red and I got stuck for a full cycle. I wasn't speeding and was only travelling at about 25mph.
Historically pedestrians weren't bound by the red or green man but surely now, to give some certainty to the whole pedestrian issue, pedestrians should be subject to jaywalking charges if they cross on a red man. Surely the new highway code doesn't give pedestrians the right to walk straight out at junctions regardless of the traffic lights because from the look on the guy's face that is exactly what he thought his rights were.
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 29, 2022 16:08:24 GMT
There isn't a law that applies to pedestrians regarding crossings like there is in the USA, for example. They would be on shaky ground from a liability point of view if they simply stepped off without regard for traffic and against the signal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2022 20:44:00 GMT
What is going to happen when a cyclist or pedestrian cross a moving vehicle at a junction and get killed? We all know there are those who just have such limited awareness of their surroundings it is criminal.
I am not talking about the sensible folk, I know nobody wants to get crushed but there are morons all over the place. I don't want to have my license removed because of one of these cretins, who stands for common sense and logic now that the law has surrendered to the cretins
Seriously, what next?
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Post by Boxer6 on Jan 30, 2022 16:51:43 GMT
Can someone please tell me what the new highway code says about a situation I found myself in this morning when going to buy some lunch: I came down to a set of traffic lights which were at green and presumably the pedestrian lights showed a red man. I didn't make any effort to slow down as I approached the lights until 3 people just walked straight across the junction without stopping and I hit the brakes hard. One of them gave me a shake of the head and they effectively forced me to stop. Typically, the lights then changed to red and I got stuck for a full cycle. I wasn't speeding and was only travelling at about 25mph. Historically pedestrians weren't bound by the red or green man but surely now, to give some certainty to the whole pedestrian issue, pedestrians should be subject to jaywalking charges if they cross on a red man. Surely the new highway code doesn't give pedestrians the right to walk straight out at junctions regardless of the traffic lights because from the look on the guy's face that is exactly what he thought his rights were. Having only read synopses of the rules on variuos platforms, I couldn't says categorically that it doesn't say that - but I'd be extremely surpised if it did! |
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Post by garry on Jan 30, 2022 19:59:03 GMT
This is the updated guidance for cyclists that I saw on the government website.
There is updated guidance for people cycling about positioning themselves which includes:
riding in the centre of their lane on quiet roads, in slower-moving traffic and at the approach to junctions or road narrowings
keeping at least 0.5 metres (just over 1.5 feet) away from the kerb edge (and further where it is safer) when riding on busy roads with vehicles moving faster than them
Sensible advice I think.
With regards cycling in groups. Worth remembering that many riders in those groups are keen car drivers and have no desire to antagonise other road users or put themselves at risk. I’d argue that more than ten riders are better riding in a pack that’s 2 or 3 riders wide (I.e. the same type of obstacle as a slow moving car) rather then being in single file and presenting a driver with a very difficult long line to overtake safely. I personally think cycling in very big groups should be banned - it’s almost impossible for a car to safely pass circa 50 bikes strung out over 100 metres of road.
What John witnessed would seem to have nothing to do with any new rules, just some idiots with a death wish.
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Post by Tim on Jan 31, 2022 9:30:24 GMT
I have a question.
Some of the pedestrian crossings in the local town weren't working over the weekend.
One, in particular is right next to a junction.
When there were pedestrians waiting to cross should I have stopped to let them go (none of them walked out)?
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Post by alf on Jan 31, 2022 12:04:10 GMT
I seem to be about the only pro-cyclist on here and honestly I'm not sure if I will change anything when cycling, I already tried to take charge of lanes a bit in very slow traffic in one way systems and so on, on anything quicker I'll just be crapping myself and hiding from the traffic, no way will I be riding further out into the road on country lanes. Most car driver's version of "overtaking" on country lanes is just to pull around you regardless of visibility, guess what they do if someone comes the other way? Yep, collision with soft flesh on the flank of their car is seen as preferable to a head-on, and the whole situation made out to be the cyclists fault. Car drivers are so fucking shit at dealing with cyclists/seeing anything in front of them that when turning right I often get off the road on the left and wait for nothing to be coming then cross, even with loads of space if I put my arm out and pull into the middle of the road its like I'm invisible, horrid coloured clothing and lights and all!
Running/walking I - like Big BLue - thought this was the law already. I was nearly knocked down twice in one run recently, running along a road in Thatcham with loads of little side turnings. Twice I checked over my shoulder to see a fast moving, non-indicating car, started to run out across the mouth of the side road, and it screeched into the road and I damn nearly ran into the side of it. What they thought I would do (I was running not walking after all), and how they thought I would realise they were turning in when going that quickly and not indicating, I do not know. I have always given way to pedestrians who are about to step out, when turning into a side road, my driving instructor told me this was the law and I believed him!
The Dutch way of opening car doors is excellent - when driving and cycling I've had people open doors on me with cars coming the other way and not enough room to go around them. I've been hit by opening doors on the nearside walking/running too.
The trouble is so many people are unobservant self-centered belligerent arseholes, I can't see the law change making any difference. I would hope all of us would manage to avoid the above regardless.
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