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Post by alf on Dec 16, 2021 13:46:36 GMT
Not hugely surprised - I was thinking that this was an option, to graciously cede that possession is 9/10ths of the law in this case - as in countless examples in Rugby and Football where the refereee / linesmen were clearly wrong, but there is not much you can do about it after the event.
You have to say this is now two championships that got away for Lewis, he could be on 9 already - this year, and the one where he clearly had the better of Rosberg but suffered multiple reliability DNF's.
Bets are off for next year as there are rule changes, but my guess will be Mercedes are top again.
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Post by Alex on Dec 16, 2021 14:27:45 GMT
Don't forget that he could have won in 2007 if he hadn't gone into the gravel by the pits in China. So it could have been 10. But that's racing for you and I'm glad Kimi leaves the sport as a champion.
I'm not surprised really. Lewis doesn't want to be known as the guy who snatched Max's championship from him in the courts and to be fair he knows it wasn't Max's fault and that he himself would have done exactly the same were the roles reversed. I think most racing fans know that it was the race director to blame for this farce, not the drivers.
I've heard that Lewis has decided not to attend the prize giving gala which is in breach of another FIA rule. I think they'd be really stupid to penalise him for it though.
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Post by Martin on Dec 16, 2021 15:21:20 GMT
It’s the right thing to do to drop it and move on.
Both Lewis and Toto are avoiding the FIA event and Mercedes haven’t sent their championship winning F1 and Formula E cars their either.
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Post by humphreythepug on Dec 16, 2021 15:59:06 GMT
Poor old Max, his championship will forever be tainted by this farce.
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Post by Alex on Dec 16, 2021 16:22:31 GMT
Poor old Max, his championship will forever be tainted by this farce. I suspect he couldn't give a shit! |
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Post by humphreythepug on Dec 16, 2021 17:03:09 GMT
Poor old Max, his championship will forever be tainted by this farce. I suspect he couldn't give a shit! Mmm, not so sure, it will always be at the back of his mind and I'm sure he is going to be reminded of the circumstances many times by journalists. |
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Post by Alex on Dec 16, 2021 17:22:07 GMT
I think he sees it as it is that he was given the green light to race and passed Lewis on track. What the FIA did and whether it is right or wrong is nothing to do with him. And I have to agree because he just followed the rules that there set on the day. Lewis would have done the same so I don't blame Max one bit.
I think the way the race ended stinks but it is what it is and everytime Lewis has had a setback like this he's bounced back to win again so roll on next year!
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Post by Martin on Dec 16, 2021 17:24:49 GMT
He really won’t care one bit.
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Post by Eff One on Dec 16, 2021 18:27:43 GMT
It’s the right thing to do to drop it and move on. Both Lewis and Toto are avoiding the FIA event and Mercedes haven’t sent their championship winning F1 and Formula E cars their either. Definitely the right call from Mercedes, though I'm a little disappointed at the boycotting of the FIA gala. |
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Post by Stuntman on Dec 16, 2021 21:11:09 GMT
Lewis was dead right when he said over the radio that the result had been manipulated.
I think Mercedes have taken a pragmatic decision not to contest things further, but I also suspect that they will not forget this in a hurry and possibly use it as leverage in some way when they have the upper hand over the FIA in any future negotiating position.
Personally I am pleased that both Mercedes and Lewis have elected to give the prizegiving a miss. They also need to make their own comment on the fairness and legitimacy of the result. If they do get penalised by the FIA then so be it. Taking this pointed stance is much more important to them. I'd do the same, and then work my utmost to absolutely smash my rivals next year.
In my opinion, Max needs to win another F1 world title fair and square before he can really be considered to be a champion. I also agree that he will not give a shit either way.
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Post by Eff One on Dec 16, 2021 21:34:34 GMT
Personally I am pleased that both Mercedes and Lewis have elected to give the prizegiving a miss. They also need to make their own comment on the fairness and legitimacy of the result. If they do get penalised by the FIA then so be it. Taking this pointed stance is much more important to them. I'd do the same, and then work my utmost to absolutely smash my rivals next year. It seems petulant and disrespectful to me. I can only imagine their anger but would have hoped for more courtesy shown towards their rivals, colleagues and friends across motorsport. |
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 16, 2021 21:51:26 GMT
I’m not sure it’s petulant: the matter has been in the public domain all week and they’ve been the party least likely to be guilty of bringing the sport into disrepute behind Masi, the stewards and Horner (who’ve we’ve heard spouting off about Mercedes more than Mercedes complaining).
Let’s also compare Lewis’ behaviour on the podium in Abu Dhabi compared to Max’s in Saudi before considering petulance.
Considering that Mercedes and Lewis have been effectively robbed by the FIA marking their own fuck up and having rules not allowing matters to go to CAS, it’s hardly surprising they don’t want to attend an FIA back slapping event.
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Post by Sav on Dec 16, 2021 23:41:57 GMT
I agree. I think what happened last Sunday was sorely disappointing. To have the regulations overridden like that in the dying moments of a fantastic championship was unacceptable for world motorsport. Mercedes have a lot more clout than the FIA have.
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Post by PetrolEd on Dec 17, 2021 12:40:49 GMT
Mercedes have a lot more clout than the FIA have. I hope not. Is Ken Barlow bigger then Coronation Street? Certainly Max deserves his championship and therefore doubt he gives two hoots how he won it. Given Baku, Silverstone and Hungary where he had a load of points taken away I think he's more then earned the result. |
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 17, 2021 14:08:27 GMT
Certainly Max deserves his championship and therefore doubt he gives two hoots how he won it. Given Baku, Silverstone and Hungary where he had a load of points taken away I think he's more then earned the result. I think Max deserves it but not that team in the final race circumstances. I'm wondering how loud the boos will be in '22 when he arrives on the grid on a disused airfield in Northamptonshire. Ken Barlow isn't but Mercedes spend a phenomenal amount on what is effectively a game. I'm not even sure that they use F1 success for PR that much in case someone suddenly says that they might start using "Hitler's favoured limousine manufacturer" as a strapline (I reckon Horner would if he could get away with it). |
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Post by Stuntman on Dec 17, 2021 19:46:30 GMT
Personally I am pleased that both Mercedes and Lewis have elected to give the prizegiving a miss. They also need to make their own comment on the fairness and legitimacy of the result. If they do get penalised by the FIA then so be it. Taking this pointed stance is much more important to them. I'd do the same, and then work my utmost to absolutely smash my rivals next year. It seems petulant and disrespectful to me. I can only imagine their anger but would have hoped for more courtesy shown towards their rivals, colleagues and friends across motorsport. Absolutely no chance of any such courtesy if it was me. Being robbed of a title in those circumstances and in that manner, when you were clearly superior on the day? Fuck courtesy. And especially fuck Michael Masi if I was Toto. Never forget, never forgive. Smash them next year and then walk away for ever giving them a massive two fingers. That's what I'd do...  |
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Post by Sav on Dec 24, 2021 15:33:16 GMT
It will be interesting to see what new FIA President Sulayem does. I hope that he genuinely tries to grow motorsport, previous FIA Presidents have been too F1-centric and too manufacturer-centric. What the FIA must realise that if motorsport grows, so does the FIA. It wouldn’t take away F1’s perception as the pinnacle. But even the pinnacle of motorsport needs a strong motorsport industry at lower levels.
One of the initiatives I would implement is to have more respective regional championships racing as support events. Liberty would have no interest in this; Bernie didn’t either – unless they paid what he asked - which was virtually nobody. As an example, BTCC used to race on the British Grand Prix weekend, until F1 started to demand silly money. BTCC doesn’t need to race at a Grand Prix weekend, but I’m sure the motivation would be there for BTCC, having explored using a longer version of Silverstone in the past. The FIA should force F1 to host domestic championships to give them a taste of the world stage.
The prospect of VW entering one of its brands into F1 concerns me. Yet again, the 2026 powertrain regulations are being dictated by the mass car manufacturers. Car manufacturers who will do as they please, and leave the sport without notice if a particular situation does not suit them. It’s a shame that independent suppliers no longer build F1 power units. Again, if the FIA really want to support the motorsport industry, it should create regulations that allow independent suppliers to enter, which would also mean new teams could enter without the need for a relationship with a car manufacturer. That would boost supply chains across the wider motorsport industry, meaning F1 wasn’t so reliant on a select few car manufacturers.
This years championship has been compelling. Not because of the manufacturers involved, because of the competition between two great teams and drivers. WEC is the playground for manufacturers, it’s a better fit for them. Jean Todt only thought about the manufacturers, and I can’t help but think it was because his career was only with well-funded factory efforts.
Sulayem must as a matter of urgency reduce the cost of the junior formula. Rich daddies funding their childrens dreams has always existed in motorsport. It always will, but increasingly the graduates from F2 are not necessarily the best. F1 provides 60% of FIA’s income. The brightest and the best should be graduating to F1. If we had more F1 teams, there would be more junior drivers who could graduate. Maybe the FIA should fund the F1 seat of every F2 champion?
I think the super license criteria has been a failure. There could be someone amazing in F3 like Verstappen, ready for F1. But today they can’t enter F1 because they don’t have the necessary points. The super license requirements were supposed to ensure that F1 rookies are ready for F1. Good intentions, bad outcomes. We get people like Mazepin and Latifi. I’m willing to bet that someone like Patricio O'Ward from IndyCar could get into an F1 car and outpace either driver on a race weekend. Helmut Marko liked him, signed him as a Red Bull junior, but found he couldn’t place him anywhere. The FIA have been happy to police age criteria and experience, but not police the costs of junior motorsport. Again, wrong priorities.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 24, 2021 21:48:45 GMT
The concern over VW group entering is more than just one manufacturer in the group. VW, Audi and Porsche are all champing at the bit for Williams, Sauber and McLaren. As all three are separate entities that can develop their “own” chassis and engine the complaint from Toto is that they effectively get three times the testing as no way will they not share data, or one develop one part and another a second……
Good bit in Motorsport about the financial outlook meaning that Liberty’s income allied to a spending restriction will make front running teams look like a good investment for a change.
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Post by Sav on Jan 7, 2022 23:40:36 GMT
That certainly would be a concern. I hope it doesn’t happen. For a few years Audi and Porsche raced against each other with LMP1 machines in WEC. It didn’t last very long. Both are re-joining top prototypes, the difference this time is that the costs will be a lot lower, and participation will be more flexible, because America’s IMSA series will allow the same LMDh cars. Especially for Porsche that is a big attraction, not being limited to WEC’s sparse schedule.
I’m not hopeful of independent powertrain suppliers entering anytime in the near future. Its clear that Liberty prefers big names. But having those big names goes against cost-control, and considering it’s an FIA series, the FIA should be interested in growing motorsort generally. Manufacturers come and go, they always will – the supply of powertrains to a company like Cosworth, Zytek etc is their bread and butter. And that would allow new teams to enter without needing a relationship with a mass car manufacturer, which seems to be a prerequisite these days. Nobody is a true-independent now, from Alpha Tauri to Haas.
Its not well known, but Zytek helped develop Mercedes’ KERS system for the 2009 season. When the technology is at a sensible-level, independents can contribute and compete. Ever since the current powertrains were introduced, people within the sport have been adamant that MGU-H must be retained for road-relevance, it apparently appealed to manufacturers. It was so compelling that Honda left. And now its being dropped to apparently to appeal to one or more of the VW brands. The irony.
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