2021 F1 and bikes discussion thread: December's races

It will be interesting to see how the Jeddah layout actually races like, but it does seem to have too many near-identical corners which are flat-out. The marshals are going to have to be spot on, I hope nobody suddenly stops in the flat kinks...

There might be three DRS zones, but two of the DRS zones are not on straights. Venturing offline to overtake in the first two DRS zones will be for the bravest, nobody is running anywhere except the racing line, its going to be easy to suddenly understeer into one of the walls either because its too dusty, or too many marbles. 

Its like we have gone from too much run-off, to not enough in certain corners. I wish F1 could race at a new permanent circuit, it would be better for F1 and the host nation, in terms of developing motorsport wherever they go next. 

What a lap Max was on before he binned it. Unbelievable commitment but just pushed it too far.

It's a pity he did not show what the ultimate pace was but signs were on the wall right at the start of that lap.

A few years down the road and he might just be the real deal. A bit more polish though.

From the BBC Sports website:
"Still, it was a nervy build-up to qualifying and Hamilton seemed to be carrying that into the session.

The car was a handful and he made a series of mistakes. There was a slide at Turn One. In second qualifying, he got on the radio to the team and said: "I don't know what we're doing. I have no grip out here."

There was another slide on his first run in the top 10 shootout, this time a heartstopping one at the fast Turn Eight. And when he did get a lap in, it was nearly 0.4secs slower than Verstappen's first attempt.

But Hamilton being Hamilton, he pulled out a big one when it mattered. He improved his own previous best by more than 0.5secs, and leapfrogged Verstappen, who then made his fateful error.

"What a difficult track this is," Hamilton said. "All of us were pushing so hard."

My bold text. Currently with the possible exception of George Russell, there seems to be nobody else on the grid who can work magic when the chips are down

I cannot see how all 20 cars can make it through the race today, there were so many near misses in qualifying and of course Max having having a not so near miss - he very nearly gave the RB a hell of a lot more damage to repair. The back markers are going to really have to be on it to make sure they don't take out the race leaders when they're being lapped.

As to Lewis and Max, if ever there was a race for them to come together in a big way this is it and if I was a betting man I'd put my money on a double DNF with Toto and Karen Horner having a proper punch up. Bring it on!

I am quietly hoping Max chucks it into the wall on the first lap. I want to watch racing, not dodgems.

Max handed another 10s penalty and 2 penalty points for brake testing Hamilton. The on board shots showed so clearly that he rapidly decelerated as Lewis appeared from the turn that I don’t know why he wasn’t given a drive through.

I liked the way Lewis put in a series of F/Ls with a broken wing just to prove the point of superiority.

Actually not talking about that situation, Just Max behaving like a proper nob and getting away with it.  In the race, what did we see other than Max being a nob and waving himself around the place?  I take it the racing we did not see was still taking place?

I really enjoyed the race although the red flags for every accident added a bit too much spice and upset for my liking. I thought Max showed his weakness in trying to pull off stupid moves around the outside of the chicane, by not braking and then claiming he wasn't given room when the facts are that he just didn't brake enough and with no other car on track he still wouldn't have made the corner. The brake test incident was again stupid but understandable but it was all about using DRS to pass Hamilton again without really giving up the place. I am glad the stewards were able to judge the situation correctly and apply reasonable penalties that didn't destroy the championship. For Max, he wouldn't have been too bothered if he took Hamilton out along with himself because he would still have a healthy lead going in to the last race.

Verstappen's raw speed is undeniable though and he will be world champion at some point, if not this year. It all comes down to the last race to which I am sure, we will all be glued.

I agree Max will definitely be a champion at some point and given how many races he has won this year on the back of his raw speed and talent behind the wheel he will overall be a deserving champion if he wins it next weekend.

Where he needs to improve his racecraft is in wheel to wheel combat with a driver his equal. This year only Lewis has fitted into that category in terms of having a car that matches his talent but next season that could well change. For a start Russell in the Merc will provide both him and Lewis a stern challenge but don't bet against the rule changes helping McLaren and Ferrari to produce a car that can regularly challenge for the race win which brings LeClerc and Norris into play, probably Riciardo too. We saw how close LeClerc and Max were a couple of years ago and it's only the poor car that's held Charles back this season and last.

So even if Max gets it this year to become a multiple world champion over the coming seasons is going to be a lot harder and he will need to temper his gung-ho approach of making his opponants decide whether to cede the place or crash as I don't think some of the younger drivers will be as willing to let him get away with it if they're in direct competition with him.

Unless Max changes his attitude and on-track behaviour, I sincerely hope that he NEVER becomes F1 world champion. I know that others may have a different opinion, but I think his actions on Sunday in particular are WAY over the line of what's acceptable.

Personally I'd love next year to be a 3-way fight between the Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren teams with Red Bull being 4th at best.

I'm surprised the Saudi layout was approved for an F1 race. We have these impossibly big run-off areas at other circuits, but at Saudi where Mick and Charles crashed, there was practically none. Being the fastest street circuit wasn't the best aim. The opening corners asked for trouble, with drivers either crashing, or using the run-off and rejoining. That applies to all the championships that raced there last weekend. Tilke, and Tilke Jr, have an obsession over very similar corners that follow each other. If you look at the great circuits, you typically have a contrast in the type of corner. Copse, for example, is totally different to Becketts. Some drivers and cars will be stronger in one or the other, they have flow, and that is how racing happens. Tilke circuits, using the original Abu Dhabi as an example, have consecutive sequences of boring corners where its impossible to overtake and tough to follow. 

As for Hamilton and Verstappen. Verstappen is undoubtedly exciting, I'm glad he is fighting for a championship. He has made F1 interesting at the front. But I don't buy the fact that he is being bullied. His own driving has been on the limit, and if he keeps cutting corners and making it impossible for his opponents to turn into a corner, he isn't going to be popular amongst his peers. Red Bull themselves haven't managed things very well either, with spurious accusations about Mercedes' rear wing. If they really had legitimate concerns, they should have officially protested. Its like after Qatar, Horner thought that the new rear-wing test meant that Mercedes' rear wing had been adjusted to comply with the new test. One week later at Saudi, the Mercedes straight line speed advantage returned. Far from being unfairly treated by the media, Horner has been skilful at using the media to convey his unfounded views, rather than actually officially protesting. 

The Saudi track layout was also criticised for having so many blind fast corners, such that if there had been an incident, the following drivers would not be able to see it until too late, so could not be ready to take evasive action. Looking at some of the onboards, it certainly confirmed that.

As to Verstappen, he says he does not see anything wrong in what he is doing and it's only him who gets penalised for some of his moves (eg forcing people off the circuit).  If true, maybe he should start to wonder why it is "only him"; perhaps it does have something to do with the way he drives?