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Post by LandieMark on Nov 18, 2021 21:08:06 GMT
Fuck me, the whole of Yorkshire needs to burn by all accounts. Racism clearly exists in sport - football more than others, probably.
I'm struggling to fully believe this chap to be honest. Calling someone racist for naming his black lab Kevin, because that is what he alleges they called the minority players in Yorkshire is a reach.
It now turns out he is anti semetic, but he has apologised, so that's fine then.
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 18, 2021 21:10:23 GMT
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 18, 2021 21:32:42 GMT
I must say when the anti-Semitic stuff came out I lost a chunk of sympathy for him but by the same token his background and influences would’ve led him down that path. The same can be said of the players’ behaviour and language towards him so there are deep rooted issues across many elements of our society.
I’m “deeply ashamed” of every speeding ticket I’ve ever had. Or am I ashamed of being caught?
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 18, 2021 21:40:36 GMT
Being caught, definitely. I was told last timebthat any more speeding tickets may affect my ability to obtain my shotgun renewal.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 18, 2021 22:36:21 GMT
No doubt a lot of good has come about from him speaking even though he’s a racist himself. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that but as we know anti Semitic views are not taken as seriously by the media.
If all of this helps cricket get there house in order then all well and good.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 19, 2021 0:02:23 GMT
Well, this is embarrassing.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 19, 2021 9:00:15 GMT
As a friend of mine remarked: “it’s good we’re not famous”.
Everyone is an idiot at some point in their life even if that idiocy was accepted behaviour at the time (like the logos on those shirts) and then judged decades later.
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Post by garry on Nov 19, 2021 10:49:48 GMT
This must have been the day after he got pinned down and had red wine poured down his throat. He wanted vodka instead!
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Post by Alex on Nov 19, 2021 12:05:01 GMT
As a friend of mine remarked: “it’s good we’re not famous”. Everyone is an idiot at some point in their life even if that idiocy was accepted behaviour at the time (like the logos on those shirts) and then judged decades later. I think none of us can confidently pretend that we didn't say silly or even offensive things when we were young and stupid. What is helpful is that when I was 18 I said these things to friends in person, not viable Twitter and those friends didn't have a smartphone on which to film it. Given how today's young adults are finding themselves in hot water for using racist, misogynistic or just generally offensive language on Tweets they send in their mid teens over 10 years ago, I would say we're rather fortunate. But I don't think we should be hounding people out for what they said as a stupid teenager to try and impress their mates if it is in no way a reflection of their current personality and behaviour. There is an element that also sometimes that behaviour was accepted at the time and just because we now live in more enlightened times doesn't mean we should necessarily judge people for what they did in the past. Taking this to a more historical level there's been a lot of calls for statues that were put up of people involved in the slave trade in celebration of their philanthropic activities to be torn down. But I can't help thinking that if I was alive 300 years ago and had a significant wealth to invest I would imagine I would have put it in the slave trade too because that is what you did back then. In 100 years from now if climate change has the devastating effect it is being reported to have, will we be cancelled because we were happy to burn petrol or hold pensions that were invested in oil companies? Sorry I know that is completely off topic but the point is how fair is it to punish people for what they did in the youth when they didn't know better or thought that what they were doing was acceptable at the time? (Just to caviat I don't believe the slave trade was OK just saying that 300 years ago I wouldn't have known it not to be, as most wealthy British people didn't)
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Post by Ben on Nov 19, 2021 16:45:19 GMT
As a friend of mine remarked: “it’s good we’re not famous”. Everyone is an idiot at some point in their life even if that idiocy was accepted behaviour at the time (like the logos on those shirts) and then judged decades later. I think none of us can confidently pretend that we didn't say silly or even offensive things when we were young and stupid. What is helpful is that when I was 18 I said these things to friends in person, not viable Twitter and those friends didn't have a smartphone on which to film it. Given how today's young adults are finding themselves in hot water for using racist, misogynistic or just generally offensive language on Tweets they send in their mid teens over 10 years ago, I would say we're rather fortunate. But I don't think we should be hounding people out for what they said as a stupid teenager to try and impress their mates if it is in no way a reflection of their current personality and behaviour. There is an element that also sometimes that behaviour was accepted at the time and just because we now live in more enlightened times doesn't mean we should necessarily judge people for what they did in the past. Taking this to a more historical level there's been a lot of calls for statues that were put up of people involved in the slave trade in celebration of their philanthropic activities to be torn down. But I can't help thinking that if I was alive 300 years ago and had a significant wealth to invest I would imagine I would have put it in the slave trade too because that is what you did back then. In 100 years from now if climate change has the devastating effect it is being reported to have, will we be cancelled because we were happy to burn petrol or hold pensions that were invested in oil companies? Sorry I know that is completely off topic but the point is how fair is it to punish people for what they did in the youth when they didn't know better or thought that what they were doing was acceptable at the time? (Just to caviat I don't believe the slave trade was OK just saying that 300 years ago I wouldn't have known it not to be, as most wealthy British people didn't) This +1 Also, your own wrongdoings doesn't absolve the wrongs of others towards you. They don't cancel each other out.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 19, 2021 16:54:06 GMT
(Just to caviat I don't believe the slave trade was OK just saying that 300 years ago I wouldn't have known it not to be, as most wealthy British people didn't) Oh I’m sure everyone involved knew it was wrong and only agreed to give it up once financial compensation was paid and replacement indentured Labour was sourced from the Indian subcontinent.
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Post by Alex on Nov 19, 2021 17:52:20 GMT
(Just to caviat I don't believe the slave trade was OK just saying that 300 years ago I wouldn't have known it not to be, as most wealthy British people didn't) Oh I’m sure everyone involved knew it was wrong and only agreed to give it up once financial compensation was paid and replacement indentured Labour was sourced from the Indian subcontinent. But that's what we can surmise by looking at it from the 21st century. But if you grew up in the 1700s your beliefs would likely be very different. Likewise my grandparents grew up as a generation that deemed it perfectly acceptable to use the P word to describe people from India and the N word for black people. Of course that was racist but does that mean I think that my Nan should be punished when I know she wouldn't use such language today? absolutely not. I watched an old episode of Only Fools the other week that was from the 80s and they referred to their local corner shop as the 'P' Shop on several occasions. I would argue that BritBox should edit that out but I don't necessarily think that David Jason needs to be publicly shamed. We all act in a way we believe is OK but if we later find out it's not and change our ways that should be seen as a good thing.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 19, 2021 17:58:20 GMT
The slaves of the era were considered lower-order humans by society as a whole. It was slave masters, their well off offspring and the middle classes (proper)* that realised the error of their ways first because white plebs would’ve had almost no contact with slaves.
*not middle classes as defined now as white collar working people that are still wage slaves as opposed to grunts.
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Post by PG on Nov 19, 2021 19:11:46 GMT
The Azeem Rafiq issues just make the satirical joke "everyone's a little bit racist sometimes" ((c) Avenue Q) seem truer than ever. Sounds like he was racially abused, but that he was also an anti-Semite at the same time. Racism in all sport (as in life) needs to be addressed, but as Alex alluded to, you have to do it without blaming everyone and everything which just makes it worse in my view.
Yorkshire cricket club only got into the 20th century towards its tail end. Until 1992 you had to be born in Yorkshire to play for them. Therefore they didn't have a single overseas player until 1992 (when the 19-year old Sachin Tendulkar played for them). That's 24 years since Gary sobers hit six sixes in Glamorgan v Notts, played at Swansea in 1968. So they are at least 30-40 years behind everyone else. Yorkshire people are stubborn (to the point of stupidity at times......). I can say that, my parents were from Yorkshire.
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Post by Stuntman on Nov 24, 2021 22:18:23 GMT
This is why racism is such a sensitive topic. Rafiq's behaviour is illustrative of the fact that some, perhaps even many, people from ethnic minorities are also somewhat prejudiced (note that I do not say racist) towards other ethnicities.
In my view it's akin to tribalism - in the sense that anyone who is not in the same tribe as you is different, and therefore you may feel or behave differently towards them or about them. Doesn't make it right, but it is understandable human behaviour.
Those of us whose outlook can be summed up as "live and let live" are probably unimpressed by any such behaviour. I have been in environments in the UK where the ethnic minorities have actually held more power and influence than the White British people, and those minorities very much used this power to their advantage and to the detriment of the White Brits. But I certainly didn't complain and nor did I call it out as racism. It's a consequence of power, which just happens to flow from ethnicity in that instance. These people (Nigerians and Arabs) got away with behaviour that White Brits did not, because of how rich they were. They were not punished when they did the same things at White Brits, and they also got away with bullying and assaulting certain White Brits.
Some people seem to take offence at the slightest thing. While it is extremely important to call out unacceptable behaviour and discipline the individuals involved, forty years ago these offence-takers would basically have been told to grow a backbone, suck it up, accept and deal with it, whatever.
Live and let live. Lead by example, call out unacceptable behaviour and influence for good.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 0:23:13 GMT
I have pointed this out before. Sara as a speech and language therapist had Asian clients. They speak English outside but demand an interpreter which the department has to pay for and that comes to a pretty penny over the different trusts. So the appointment begins and the 'clients' refuse to talk to the interpreter, because =she is of a lower cast.
Racist or allowed, after all they are not white yet they are still discriminating. I find it difficult to feel sorry for those who play both sides of the problem.
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Post by Ben on Nov 25, 2021 15:53:47 GMT
For what it's worth, racism is a problem in Asia too.
Any place where there is a majority and a minority, there will always be a power imbalance, like Stuntman describes.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 25, 2021 17:05:01 GMT
I do remember a time when one of my wife's cousins was a nurse in Edinburgh and dating a Chinese doctor and her brother, in the Army, coincidentally, was dating a Chinese girl he'd met in HK. We thought it'd be nice to invite them all for Christmas thinking they'd have something in common. Well that turned out to be a mistake as our Chinese doctor looked down his nose at the girl from HK as she was a lower "caste" and the two of them ignored each other all night.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 25, 2021 19:38:48 GMT
I had a Chinese guy work for me. He was brilliant, did the work of three people and was immensely polite to all us round eyes.
The Chinese girls I had working for me were often in tears, because he was outrageously blunt to them in Chinese.
I worked with a Parisian when at Ericsson and introduced him to another French girl. When she found out he was from Paris she never spoke to him again.
There’s nothing you can do about other cultures and trying to homogenise them is doomed to fail
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Post by Martin on Nov 25, 2021 20:47:11 GMT
I had a Chinese guy work for me. He was brilliant, did the work of three people and was immensely polite to all us round eyes. The Chinese girls I had working for me were often in tears, because he was outrageously blunt to them in Chinese. I worked with a Parisian when at Ericsson and introduced him to another French girl. When she found out he was from Paris she never spoke to him again. There’s nothing you can do about other cultures and trying to homogenise them is doomed to fail Exactly, especially if you end up having to something awful like eating carp for Christmas! (I think I’ve got that right…..)
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 25, 2021 21:23:48 GMT
Exactly, especially if you end up having to something awful like eating carp for Christmas! (I think I’ve got that right…..) Sounds fishy to me, plus I think that "do" is missing......
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 25, 2021 21:30:30 GMT
Yep: carp for Christmas (which is, of course, the 24th).
One letter out of plaice (sic) and one day out of place 😆
I get to eat meat on the 25th - goose last year as we were in England but normally duck, boar and venison.
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Post by Martin on Nov 25, 2021 21:43:14 GMT
Exactly, especially if you end up having to something awful like eating carp for Christmas! (I think I’ve got that right…..) Sounds fishy to me, plus I think that "do" is missing...... Eat….but ‘do’ would also work!
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Post by PG on Nov 26, 2021 10:43:50 GMT
Yep: carp for Christmas (which is, of course, the 24th). One letter out of plaice (sic) and one day out of place 😆 I get to eat meat on the 25th - goose last year as we were in England but normally duck, boar and venison.And I bet you are absolutely starving by Christmas Day..... I am sure there are very good culturally historic reasons why people eat carp for Christmas, but those probably date back to before fishing trawlers and refrigeration were invented. Couldn't some enterprising fishmonger invent "Carp 2021" as a name for some other far more palatable fish?
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 26, 2021 11:36:18 GMT
At least ours are kept in a temporary tank in the basement because if you live in a flat they’re in the bath for a week or two in the run up.
To be honest I think we’re a bit old fashioned and younger families only do this as long as grandparents are around.
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