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Post by johnc on Jul 27, 2021 16:57:40 GMT
Last week we decided to venture south once more using electricity for fuel. However unlike the last time we made a journey to near London, we booked hotels just South of York for the way down and near Birmingham on the way home. Although his added significantly to the cost it did reduce the stress massively with one stop on the road to charge and a full charge overnight at the hotel.
Like most on here I am sure you are far more likely to hit the Sport or Dynamic button than the one labeled ECO and I don't think we have ever used ECO before but on cruise control it made a big difference with an increase in range of about 10% and a countdown of range left which was pretty realistic given the miles travelled. On average we had a useable range of about 240 miles at motorway speeds but range anxiety still kicks in after about 170 miles leading to another coffee/charge up stop.
The i-Pace is really great on a long drive: it is quiet, comfortable and very well equipped, providing cooled seats and an even temperature whilst the sun shrivelled up anything that stood still for 5 minutes. At a good bit over 30 degrees it was a bit hot for us Northeners but in the car it was very relaxing.
We found a good few more chargers on the motorway than there were even last August but still nowhere near enough. On the way back north when we stopped at Gretna services, there were 6 chargers and all of them were in use with a queue. Thankfully they were the seriously quick ones (150Kw/h) and a Taycan and an e-Tron GT (the first I have seen and prettier than the Porsche) had charged sufficiently to move on after about 15 minutes. There was a sting in the tail though: the cost was 69p per Kw/h. I calculate that makes it about twice the price of diesel given that the car was using just under 40Kw/H per 100 miles at motorway speeds. I bet they won't be publicising those figures!
I noticed that as we travelled further south, people who overtake on the motorway cut in right in front of you for absolutely no reason. When the adaptive cruise is on it is a bloody nuisance as plonker after plonker pass and then pull in about a car's length ahead causing a sudden slow down. Has no-one taught these morons how to drive? I can understand pulling in quickly if you have someone bearing down on you quickly or maybe a lorry trying to get in the back seat but when the road is reasonably clear it is just plain stupid and dangerous.
We spent a couple of nights at the very nice Brooklands hotel which allowed us to take advantage of some time at Mercedes World. I have to say the C63 is still a very impressive car and has a really good sound. It is also very forgiving and tells you exactly what it is doing. I even managed to make it more than once around the skid circle in a drift but I am much happier on the faster track. I had a good instructor who was calm and interesting - he races sports cars and this year is driving a 600hp prototype. He was good at describing weight shift based on different lines into corners and had me trying different lines to see how the car reacted and see which was faster. I am much more comfortable with what might be called a classic line but he was showing me a line where you braked much later and deeper into the corner and had more of a V shape turn - I think it might be described as the line of the late braker.
Electric power provided a very comfortable week and those extra stops made it a week to enjoy instead of fear. The infrastructure isn't there yet but it is getting better. The problem will be when they start to sell twice the volume they currently do because without fields of chargers it won't be one overnight stop on Glasgow to London, it will be two or three!
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Post by Boxer6 on Jul 27, 2021 17:34:49 GMT
Nice write up John, though an e-car is not on my want list quite yet!
I know what you mean about m-way overtakes too; the mighty Skoda has adjustable radar-controlled cruise and even if I have it set to one-bar distance (the lowest I feel anywhere near comfortable with, it still causes a sometimes vicious drop in speed as soon as the passing eejit pulls back in!
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Post by Martin on Jul 27, 2021 18:10:05 GMT
Good update John, really interesting to hear how you got on. I think occasional long journeys are fine, especially if they aren’t work related, as you’re a bit more relaxed. / less time bound and can plan stops in.
People cutting in along with erratic speeds are really annoying when you’re using voodoo cruise although my car reacts much more strongly to cutting in than the Golf does.
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 27, 2021 19:56:07 GMT
"People cutting in" has been the norm "down south" for a good few years now, not sure why.... is it that people do not judge speed/distance, or are so used to diving across lanes as late as possible for motorway exits? As you suggest, it's rude and dangerous especially in the wet, and totally unnecessary.
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Post by LandieMark on Jul 27, 2021 20:18:11 GMT
Interesting. Not for me at the moment. I didn't used to mind having to fill up every 200 miles, as it only took 10 minutes. Having that range extended to 400-500 is a revelation so I'll be sticking to IC for the moment.
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 27, 2021 22:15:24 GMT
Interesting journey. I think the biggest eye opener was the 240 miles at motorway speeds: that’s what the gas guzzling Gorilla could walk on at proper 220+ kph on the autobahn which is why I’m not ready for full electric yet. I’m sad to admit my sons have driven more at MB world than I, especially as it’s about the mid point between our respective homes. I must get round to it. ETA: very pertinent….,. Electric car charging prices 'must be fair' say MPs www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57963912 |
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 28, 2021 8:21:53 GMT
Thanks. Nutshell summary of why I'm prepared to replace the Fiat with an electric city car but not prepared yet to replace the BMW with something like an iPace or i4.
I had heard that re-charging from rapid chargers on motorways was very pricey, just as petrol is pricier on motorways than off them. But I hadn't realised it was that much pricier.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 28, 2021 8:30:23 GMT
Thanks. Nutshell summary of why I'm prepared to replace the Fiat with an electric city car but not prepared yet to replace the BMW with something like an iPace or i4. I had heard that re-charging from rapid chargers on motorways was very pricey, just as petrol is pricier on motorways than off them. But I hadn't realised it was that much pricier. I think a lot of electric vehicle drivers will get a shock at the cost of their top ups. There will be a move away towards road pricing to replace the fuel duty lost to electric vehicles - either that or the cars themselves will send a signal to the grid so that home charging is charged at a higher rate than ordinary domestic use. |
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Post by Martin on Jul 28, 2021 10:35:54 GMT
A lot of Tesla owners will ge a shock if Musk follows through on his announcement this week, that he's going to open up the Supercharger network to everyone. That will give a short term boost to the changing network in the UK, but a strange decision as it removes the main benefit of buying a Tesla (imo).
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 28, 2021 11:03:59 GMT
I think a lot of electric vehicle drivers will get a shock Need to make sure I invest in a rubber boot manufacturer….. |
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Post by garry on Jul 28, 2021 11:29:50 GMT
Good summary , and concurs with my experience. The e car market is being driven by 0% bik company cars . I wonder what happens when (if) the tax advantage gets removed. With no tax advantage Racings position is the one I’d adopt - a small e car for local trips and a combustion engine for longer trips.
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Post by Martin on Jul 28, 2021 11:47:36 GMT
Just wondered how the efficiency of the iPace compared to the figures I get given (with tediously boring regularity....) for Model 3's. 40kw/H per 100 miles is 2.5 miles per KWH (could do that in my head!) which sounds pretty low. At company car motorway speeds the Model 3 LRs get high 3s, drop it to just over 70mph and they are well into the 4s (up to 4.5 apparently). That's a big difference.
I wonder how much is battery/motor efficiency and how much is weight, as they are broadly the same size but I think the iPace is quite a bit heavier?
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 28, 2021 13:06:39 GMT
Good summary , and concurs with my experience. The e car market is being driven by 0% bik company cars . I wonder what happens when (if) the tax advantage gets removed. With no tax advantage Racings position is the one I’d adopt - a small e car for local trips and a combustion engine for longer trips. I do find it pretty unfair that company car drivers get a massive tax incentive to go electric whereas private car drivers are not offered anything remotely similar. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 28, 2021 13:24:01 GMT
Good summary , and concurs with my experience. The e car market is being driven by 0% bik company cars . I wonder what happens when (if) the tax advantage gets removed. With no tax advantage Racings position is the one I’d adopt - a small e car for local trips and a combustion engine for longer trips. I do find it pretty unfair that company car drivers get a massive tax incentive to go electric whereas private car drivers are not offered anything remotely similar. When more than 50% of the cars on the road were purchased by fleets, tax incentives to company car drivers meant that environmental policy changes could be enacted quickly and those cars then fed through to the second hand market. Times have changed so I agree, more incentives need to be given to private buyers. |
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Post by garry on Jul 28, 2021 15:06:59 GMT
Good summary , and concurs with my experience. The e car market is being driven by 0% bik company cars . I wonder what happens when (if) the tax advantage gets removed. With no tax advantage Racings position is the one I’d adopt - a small e car for local trips and a combustion engine for longer trips. I do find it pretty unfair that company car drivers get a massive tax incentive to go electric whereas private car drivers are not offered anything remotely similar. It does feel unfair at the moment, but I think this has been one of the better strategic decisions of the government. In the world of technology there is this concept of ‘crossing the chasm’ which is about finding your early beachhead customers to try out your new proposition before accessing the bigger market. John and I are those beachhead customers (probably better described as incentivised guinea pigs). If it works out we’re going to tell the world about our positive experience and others will join the electric revolution (I.e. they’ll cross the chasm). No doubt the incentives will also disappear ( being replaced by positive testimonies from the beachhead customers). If it doesn’t work out the e car will quickly die with limited customer pain. If everyone had been incentivised all at once all hell would break loose (the world and his mother buys an electric car and we go on the learning journey that John and I are taking, but en masse). |
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Post by PG on Jul 28, 2021 16:03:11 GMT
A lot of Tesla owners will ge a shock if Musk follows through on his announcement this week, that he's going to open up the Supercharger network to everyone. That will give a short term boost to the changing network in the UK, but a strange decision as it removes the main benefit of buying a Tesla (imo). Yes it does seem a weird decision. But the terms are not known and he sure won't allow access for free. |
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Post by Tim on Jul 29, 2021 8:32:49 GMT
Interesting writeup.
As someone who likes to get to a destination fairly directly I'd find the thought of having to break a journey between Glasgow and London(ish) with an overnight stop to remove charging stress very irritating.
I'm sure range, etc will improve massively but it still feels like its way too soon to consider electric for anything other than local journeys.
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Post by johnc on Jul 29, 2021 13:13:50 GMT
Thanks. Nutshell summary of why I'm prepared to replace the Fiat with an electric city car but not prepared yet to replace the BMW with something like an iPace or i4. I had heard that re-charging from rapid chargers on motorways was very pricey, just as petrol is pricier on motorways than off them. But I hadn't realised it was that much pricier. Many of the chargers on the motorway are around 40p/kwh which makes it much closer to Petrol for cost per mile. Off the motorway we have charged up for between 26p and 35p/Kwh. The chargers in supermarkets like Booths or Waitrose tend to be cheaper. |
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Post by johnc on Jul 29, 2021 13:17:28 GMT
A lot of Tesla owners will ge a shock if Musk follows through on his announcement this week, that he's going to open up the Supercharger network to everyone. That will give a short term boost to the changing network in the UK, but a strange decision as it removes the main benefit of buying a Tesla (imo). Yes it does seem a weird decision. But the terms are not known and he sure won't allow access for free. There is also another issue - the Tesla supercharger uses a different connector to non Tesla cars so fast charging is out. It is possible to use many Tesla chargers in a non Tesla but you only get the 7Kwh charge which is the same as the home chargers and takes about 9 hrs to recharge the i-Pace so is useless when on the road. |
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Post by cbeaks1 on Jul 29, 2021 13:23:41 GMT
I thought the European Teslas had the normal type 2?
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Post by johnc on Jul 29, 2021 13:34:28 GMT
I thought the European Teslas had the normal type 2? I believe that they have the type 2 charging connectors but there is something that allows a Tesla to charge at the (red) Superchargers which isn't available to non Teslas. Teslas also charge on the white Tesla chargers at a much faster rate than a non Tesla can even though the connector is the same. |
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Post by PG on Jul 29, 2021 19:26:35 GMT
I thought the European Teslas had the normal type 2? I believe that they have the type 2 charging connectors but there is something that allows a Tesla to charge at the (red) Superchargers which isn't available to non Teslas. Teslas also charge on the white Tesla chargers at a much faster rate than a non Tesla can even though the connector is the same. People can say what they like about Musk and how Teslas do or don't look, are or are not reliable etc etc, but the above is what makes Tesla so different to the legacy OEM's. Tesla are software, technology and infrastructure that has four wheels and moves around. Everyone else is trying to build a car that has a different power-plant to the one they're used to. |
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 30, 2021 10:02:04 GMT
I've also read sufficient times from enthusiast owners that Teslas and other electric vehicles are technically excellent vehicles that sadly offer very little to stir the emotions in addition to simply being effective transport. Like the average Audi but with any remaining charisma surgically removed.
As a result, I'm just not sold for the purposes of anything other than urban use. Sure, if you are wealthy enough and have the space to run a small fleet then great. But as previously mentioned I want a swiss army knife of a car, and the array of talents it must possess has to include the ability to provide me with excitement and fun when the occasion arises. My current car provides just enough of that to satisfy me, but I do realise that anything much less wouldn't cut the mustard.
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Post by johnc on Jul 30, 2021 12:17:58 GMT
I certainly don't find driving the i-Pace to be an anesthetised experience: you know where the wheels are pointing, feel what the suspension is doing and are pretty much involved if you get in to any spirited motoring. I also get a great smile when I hit the loud pedal with the acceleration and the cornering speed and the balance are remarkable - you do feel what it is doing on the road. OK it doesn't have a sound track to go with it but I never feel short changed stepping out of the i-Pace after any spirited drive. I think I have said before that the max regeneration provides really good stopping power on a country road and once you get yourself synced with the car, you can come up to a corner really quickly and judge your "braking" by how much you come off the accelerator and then gently squeeze it again to rocket out of the corner - it is different but it is also equally enjoyable.
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 30, 2021 17:30:56 GMT
I certainly don't find driving the i-Pace to be an anesthetised experience: you know where the wheels are pointing, feel what the suspension is doing and are pretty much involved if you get in to any spirited motoring. I also get a great smile when I hit the loud pedal with the acceleration and the cornering speed and the balance are remarkable - you do feel what it is doing on the road. OK it doesn't have a sound track to go with it but I never feel short changed stepping out of the i-Pace after any spirited drive. I think I have said before that the max regeneration provides really good stopping power on a country road and once you get yourself synced with the car, you can come up to a corner really quickly and judge your "braking" by how much you come off the accelerator and then gently squeeze it again to rocket out of the corner - it is different but it is also equally enjoyable. So would you swap your M5 for it? |
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Post by johnc on Aug 2, 2021 10:23:15 GMT
I certainly don't find driving the i-Pace to be an anesthetised experience: you know where the wheels are pointing, feel what the suspension is doing and are pretty much involved if you get in to any spirited motoring. I also get a great smile when I hit the loud pedal with the acceleration and the cornering speed and the balance are remarkable - you do feel what it is doing on the road. OK it doesn't have a sound track to go with it but I never feel short changed stepping out of the i-Pace after any spirited drive. I think I have said before that the max regeneration provides really good stopping power on a country road and once you get yourself synced with the car, you can come up to a corner really quickly and judge your "braking" by how much you come off the accelerator and then gently squeeze it again to rocket out of the corner - it is different but it is also equally enjoyable. So would you swap your M5 for it? That's a difficult question because I have use of both and each has its own advantages and positives. The short answer to your question is no but if the price were to be more reasonable I might change the M5 for an Audi e-tron GT. Otherwise, if I could find a way of carrying my golf clubs I would have a 4.0 Boxster GTS. |
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