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Post by garry on Jul 16, 2021 7:32:31 GMT
The Tesla plaid electric thread got me thinking. Doesn’t seem to matter how much power you throw at a road car, 0-60 mph peaks at circa 2 seconds. Is this some sort of physical limit ? I’d have thought that mechanical grip would be the limiting factor. In fact, braking distance (where mechanical grip is reached) probability gives the best indication of how close to peak 0-60 we are. Any thoughts?
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Post by Blarno on Jul 16, 2021 8:17:24 GMT
You can go faster - rallycross cars and drag cars are below 2 seconds to 60 - but they have, in the case of drag cars, very specific compound tyres, high stall torque converters and suspension that actively digs in to reduce squat. None of which is useful or probably legal on a road car.
Saying that, I can count on one hand the amount of times I have performed a 0-60 run.
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Post by chipbutty on Jul 16, 2021 8:29:39 GMT
1900 bhp R35 GTRs run 1.6 seconds – but they require a really brutal launch and look to be a real handful.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 16, 2021 9:03:44 GMT
Don't know as there will always be some crazy company wanting to set the next record. But if we continue down this road rather then focusing on fun and entertaining cars then we will likely get legislators banning excessive BHP in a few years.
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Post by Tim on Jul 16, 2021 9:25:53 GMT
I expect tyre grip could be a limiting factor so to go faster you'll need stickier tyres that will probably wear a lot quicker.
All for a once in the car's lifetime full bore run to 60.
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Post by Boxer6 on Jul 16, 2021 10:00:23 GMT
I expect tyre grip could be a limiting factor so to go faster you'll need stickier tyres that will probably wear a lot quicker. All for a once in the car's lifetime bunch of journos full bore runs to 60. FYP |
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 16, 2021 10:19:51 GMT
I expect tyre grip could be a limiting factor so to go faster you'll need stickier tyres that will probably wear a lot quicker. All for a once in the car's lifetime bunch of journos full bore runs to 60. FYP Ah but the 911s at Porsche Experience centres get ragged 0-60 several times a day, from full launch control starts. The PDK is one tough piece of kit. |
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Post by johnc on Jul 16, 2021 11:22:33 GMT
I haven't done it in my car once. I don't see the point straining transmission and tyres for 3secs. I get much more enjoyment getting the foot to the floor coming out of a corner or roundabout.
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 16, 2021 11:31:03 GMT
I haven't done it in my car once. I don't see the point straining transmission and tyres for 3secs. I get much more enjoyment getting the foot to the floor coming out of a corner or roundabout. I hope all on here agree with that but you can’t quote numbers on doing it. Some of it will be about the appetite of the driver, the gearing, angle in and out etc. 0-60 / 0-100 is used as a benchmark because the most ham footed numpty can attempt it (apart from that bloke in the Ferrari in that Albert / Chelsea / Putney Bridge (can’t remember which) video that lost it in a straight line) and tell their mates their car can do it. Coincidentally you can all expect me to be posting mpg figures on a weekly basis come September 😆 |
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Post by johnc on Jul 16, 2021 11:50:11 GMT
Coincidentally you can all expect me to be posting mpg figures on a weekly basis come September 😆 Oh how times have changed! |
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Post by Martin on Jul 16, 2021 11:57:01 GMT
I haven't done it in my car once. I don't see the point straining transmission and tyres for 3secs. I get much more enjoyment getting the foot to the floor coming out of a corner or roundabout. I hope all on here agree with that but you can’t quote numbers on doing it. Some of it will be about the appetite of the driver, the gearing, angle in and out etc. 0-60 / 0-100 is used as a benchmark because the most ham footed numpty can attempt it (apart from that bloke in the Ferrari in that Albert / Chelsea / Putney Bridge (can’t remember which) video that lost it in a straight line) and tell their mates their car can do it. Coincidentally you can all expect me to be posting mpg figures on a weekly basis come September 😆  Which I assume will be the same bollocks every lie-brid (thanks to Pete for that one!) driver spouts, completely ignoring the cost of the electricity and only quoting the short journey figure when the engine is barely on. When the couple of quid they save is a drop in the ocean next to the cost of the car vs one with a nicer combustion engine. Rant over!  |
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Post by garry on Jul 16, 2021 13:31:32 GMT
I’m not arguing that 0-60 means that much in the real world, or that you can’t go faster with some trick tyres that would be irrelevant in a normal car. The point is that I think the 2 second ish 0 -60 time is about as good as it gets. Mechanical grip ( by which I mean tyres) limit what’s possible. Brakes can easily overwhelm tyre grip so I’d guess that good 60 - 0 times give a very good indication of what’s possible with current tyre tech. My expectation (with zero evidence to support it!) is that the best road cars get from 60-0 in around 2 seconds, hence we’ve reach a limit.
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Post by Alex on Jul 16, 2021 20:38:45 GMT
I expect tyre grip could be a limiting factor so to go faster you'll need stickier tyres that will probably wear a lot quicker. All for a once in the car's lifetime full bore run to 60. In theory road cars have met their limit bearing in mind its not just the tyres that are a limiting factor but also the road surface itself. That said its not impossible to go faster. Drag racers use burn outs to put rubber down onto the start line instead of starting off on tarmac. Apparently (according to our friends at Wikipedia) some of the top fuel dragsters can reach 60 in around 0.8 seconds. But to achieve that they also have about 10,000hp which might even be beyond Tesla's ability to match! |
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Post by rodge on Jul 16, 2021 20:42:25 GMT
I’m not arguing that 0-60 means that much in the real world, or that you can’t go faster with some trick tyres that would be irrelevant in a normal car. The point is that I think the 2 second ish 0 -60 time is about as good as it gets. Mechanical grip ( by which I mean tyres) limit what’s possible. Brakes can easily overwhelm tyre grip so I’d guess that good 60 - 0 times give a very good indication of what’s possible with current tyre tech. My expectation (with zero evidence to support it!) is that the best road cars get from 60-0 in around 2 seconds, hence we’ve reach a limit. That’s a really good point. I did wonder if 0-60 will get quicker but down to 1.5-1.6s, and will it only happen in electric vehicles? The strain on a clutch/gearbox must be immense. I watched the Carwow video of the new M5 vs E63 and the M5 is under 3s now. For a big ICE saloon car, that’s insane performance, way beyond anything a super car of 20 years ago could do. The thing that I wonder about is the drivers ability to control a car at that rate of acceleration- which is another reason why self driving isn’t a bad thing. |
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Post by Boxer6 on Jul 16, 2021 21:42:06 GMT
I expect tyre grip could be a limiting factor so to go faster you'll need stickier tyres that will probably wear a lot quicker. All for a once in the car's lifetime full bore run to 60. In theory road cars have met their limit bearing in mind its not just the tyres that are a limiting factor but also the road surface itself. That said its not impossible to go faster. Drag racers use burn outs to put rubber down onto the start line instead of starting off on tarmac. Apparently (according to our friends at Wikipedia) some of the top fuel dragsters can reach 60 in around 0.8 seconds. But to achieve that they also have about 10,000hp which might even be beyond Tesla's ability to match! Not forgetting the engine rebuild after every run! |
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Post by Tim on Jul 19, 2021 7:36:46 GMT
I read about the new Lotus Evija at the weekend and apparently it can manage 124-186mph in 3 seconds.
Scary.
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