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Post by racingteatray on Jun 17, 2021 10:41:52 GMT
There was a piece on the BBC news last night about inflation and how values of used cars have leapt in value in the past few months. This chimes with a discussion we had about Porsche values when John's chum was after a replacement 911 and also a thread I read on one of the BMW forums about silly prices being asked for late F30/1 340is. Then I've been keeping an eye on prices for Macan GTS/Turbos and those have gone from "silly" to "why would you bother?".
So thought I'd check that out by getting an on-line valuation for my car - it's up at least £3k from the last one I got before Christmas - nearly £24k for a private sale and nearly £22k part-ex. Even our Fiat was coming up with a private sale price of £4.5k - that's for a car that will be 8yrs old this year and was only £11.8k new.
Presume we've all noticed?
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Post by Martin on Jun 17, 2021 11:24:40 GMT
Yes, it's been going silly for a few months. Great if you're looking at a brand new car with a decent discount or if you're coming to the end of a PCP as you should have decent equity in the car, but if you're upgrading to another used car the gap has widened.
I've put the Golf into Motorway.co.uk which is getting really good reviews (they get bids from dealers rather than sell/auction like WBAC), their guide price was £25.5k and from what I've read I think we would get at least £26k which is amazing for a car that cost £34.5k 3 years and nearly 30k miles ago. But there isn't anything I want that fits the criteria/budget, so it's all a bit academic. I did have an eye on a nice spec low mileage 2016 Macan Turbo that my local specialist had up for sale at £60k. I struggled to get my head around that amount for a 5 year old car so didn't do anything about it, but it went within a week anyway so clearly it was priced right for the market.
I also put the RR in just out of interest and it was less than I paid for it a year ago which is understandable, but the depreciation was a lot less than I was expecting the average annual figure to be and it would be higher than the average in the first year. I would struggle to buy my car now from a main dealer for the same price as 12 months ago even, with more than double the mileage and double the age.
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 17, 2021 11:57:03 GMT
The Motorway bids are pretty close to what I got as part-ex figures from Parkers and Autotrader.
And, interestingly, their system automatically completed the current mileage figures for both cars accurately when I entered the registration numbers, suggesting some commonality of system with one of the aforementioned sites?
Given both cars are low mileage for their age, I don't think that's merely accurate computer prediction.
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Post by Martin on Jun 17, 2021 12:04:19 GMT
The Motorway bids are pretty close to what I got as part-ex figures from Parkers and Autotrader. And, interestingly, their system automatically completed the current mileage figures for both cars accurately when I entered the registration numbers, suggesting some commonality of system with one of the aforementioned sites? Could be, I don't know? My neighbour has just swapped his wife's 530d for a brand new 730d M Sport with a couple of options, it was in stock but unregistered and he paid £48k for it...list price was high £70s. Just a shame about the grille as otherwise what a car for sub £50k. On the Macan, there's a facelift due with a new interior and the GTS will have another 60hp which puts it in line with the original turbo. That would be a lot better value over time than buying a used one. |
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Post by franki68 on Jun 17, 2021 12:09:23 GMT
I enquired about part ex on the Cayenne before I decided to keep it,OPC and wbac both offered around 17.5k ,wbac continue to bombard me with offers and it's now worth over20k to them apparently ,that's in about 3 weeks.
I think the gt3 has gone up by about 20k since January.
It's madness,but I am finding this in all sorts of areas.Guitars which I am often buying and selling have shot up like crazy .There is just less supply of everything and costs are increasing enormously.I spoke to my old business partner ,they contracted this year for containers from china at $2200 a container ,the Chinese won't honour the contracts and now want $24000 per container to ship .We are going to see quite a lot if inflation over the next 12 months.
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 17, 2021 12:23:21 GMT
On the Macan, there's a facelift due with a new interior and the GTS will have another 60hp which puts it in line with the original turbo. That would be a lot better value over time than buying a used one. Yes I read that in Autocar the other day. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 17, 2021 19:31:39 GMT
Yes, I’ve been offered a very good price for mine which has got me thinking...
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Post by alf on Jun 18, 2021 8:36:31 GMT
It seems everything is up - or going up - for sure, more so if it has "stay at home" value. Container shipping, Brexit, COVID - something of a perfect storm. I actually bothered to Ebay some bike and camera bits for way more than they were worth pre-COVID.
My cars tend to be such low-volume models I am never sure of the website prices, but XFR forums seem sure the values are well up - I think good examples will stay that way. When I re-did the insurance their estimates were around 19k which seemed healthy enough, on AT people are asking that for much older cars. AT suggest £23k which would be a big rise on what it would have been without COVID. It's one of those "now or never" cars for people that always wanted a silly-bhp V8, and if you are also jag fan they never made a direct replacement so one from the last year of production helps.
The Porsche I thought I may have slightly over-paid for, but I had a recent look and now cars from similar specialists with a lot more miles, and worse spec, are as much money, they seem to have gone up also. It helped it was still cold as well and snowing/raining/hailing all the time when I got mine. AT now has the private sale price above what I paid at a specialist, Parkers are lower for both my cars but they work on average mileage and I'm way under.
It's like houses though isn't it - it's all very well taking a profit, but if what you then go to buy has also gone up, do you win?
House prices currently may be one for another topic, I fundamentally don't get it. All these news stories about 400k more children on free school meals, massive doom and gloom from many sectors, surely tonnes of people in "zombie" jobs - and yet people are snapping up houses for crazy prices. WTAF?
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Post by michael on Jun 18, 2021 9:17:27 GMT
House prices currently may be one for another topic, I fundamentally don't get it. All these news stories about 400k more children on free school meals, massive doom and gloom from many sectors, surely tonnes of people in "zombie" jobs - and yet people are snapping up houses for crazy prices. WTAF? There remain far more buyers than houses, it’s that simple. |
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Post by PG on Jun 18, 2021 9:19:19 GMT
...contracted this year for containers from china at $2200 a container ,the Chinese won't honour the contracts and now want $24000 per container to ship .We are going to see quite a lot if inflation over the next 12 months. I heard that too from a friend who buys radio-control stuff. And that's the price if you can get a container - he's been waiting 6 months for some stuff. Long delays and $24k per container shoots a big hole in any "make it cheaper in China" business planning. |
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Post by PG on Jun 18, 2021 9:26:46 GMT
... My cars tend to be such low-volume models I am never sure of the website prices, but XFR forums seem sure the values are well up - I think good examples will stay that way. When I re-did the insurance their estimates were around 19k which seemed healthy enough, on AT people are asking that for much older cars. AT suggest £23k which would be a big rise on what it would have been without COVID. It's one of those "now or never" cars for people that always wanted a silly-bhp V8, and if you are also jag fan they never made a direct replacement so one from the last year of production helps. ...It's like houses though isn't it - it's all very well taking a profit, but if what you then go to buy has also gone up, do you win? House prices currently may be one for another topic, I fundamentally don't get it. All these news stories about 400k more children on free school meals, massive doom and gloom from many sectors, surely tonnes of people in "zombie" jobs - and yet people are snapping up houses for crazy prices. WTAF? XFR prices do seem all over the place. Some big prices and yet others seem low. I also see ones for sale that have been chavved. Is nothing sacred? House prices. Cheap money has certainly fueled price rises as well as crazy demand. Inflation creeping up v cheap money continuing for ever. That'll be an interesting political discussion. In reality, all governments would like to see inflation at 2-3% for several years if they can talk it as "timing" as that will depreciate away some public debt. And whilst houses have been a good hedge against inflation historically, if interest rates had to rise that could become a very different position. Although politically, rising interest rates would be bad news,so maybe the era of cheap money is here for the foreseeable, even as inflation rises. |
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Post by johnc on Jun 18, 2021 10:06:30 GMT
My friend who was looking for a 911 decided that we were in a bubble and he wasn't buying now. £85K/£90K for a 6 year old car was just getting out of hand.
However last weekend he bought a year old M4CS with less than 1500 miles for just under £50K and he loves it. He is going to hang on to it until prices sort themselves out.
Last night when I went in to my local curry house I had a long chat with the owner who is car daft. He used to have M5's and M6's but 2 years ago he bought a 2 yr old 911S convertible in a pretty rare blue/grey colour. I noticed that he had changed it a couple of months ago for a 991 4S Targa. Apparently he bought the Targa privately and had 2 Porsche dealers after his convertible which resulted in a net cost to change of c£10K for 2 years motoring and a new car which was a year younger. He hated the Targa because the buffeting and noise are much worse than the convertible at speed, so he traded it for a near swap on a Panamera E-Hybrid Sport Turismo. He hated this too (too slow, too black inside and too big) and has traded it against a 911 GTS convertible which is the same age as the Targa (about 3 years old) but cost him another £10K
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Post by Alex on Jun 18, 2021 10:08:35 GMT
House price rises, especially in rural west Sussex where I live have been shooting up over the last year. You have new 3 beds at over 400k and they cant build enough of them. I think a big driver is those living nearer London moving further out as they can now work from home. Add in the stamp duty holiday and low interest rates and it's a perfect storm. How long it cam last is anyone's guess. The banks still lend on the basis of a multiple of your salary and at some point asking prices will be too far ahead of salaries. The stamp duty holiday is an odd policy. I understood it when it was first introduced but to keep it going only benefits those who have been able to keep or improve their standard of living during the pandemic.
As for car prices. Simply put a lot of people have saved a lot of money by not going on holiday or paying for their commute for the last year and they're cash rich. With no interest on savings, petrol prices creeping up and new petrol engined cars slowly being phased out, what better time to finally get into a V8?
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Post by PetrolEd on Jun 18, 2021 11:11:21 GMT
Just tried using Motorway for my Focus ST but its quite a complicated process. The cars a 2014 FT2 with 57K miles and they bid me £8200 with £200 worth of prep so call it 8K. WBAC are at £8800 so might go and see them and see what they try and do to pull my trousers down. If I advertise privately I think it'll be £9495 hoping to achieve 9K. It cost me £10,400 2 year and 15,000 miles ago so it'll be one of the best cars I've owned if I decide to move it on whilst prices are high.
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Post by Boxer6 on Jun 18, 2021 11:15:41 GMT
...contracted this year for containers from china at $2200 a container ,the Chinese won't honour the contracts and now want $24000 per container to ship .We are going to see quite a lot if inflation over the next 12 months. I heard that too from a friend who buys radio-control stuff. And that's the price if you can get a container - he's been waiting 6 months for some stuff. Long delays and $24k per container shoots a big hole in any "make it cheaper in China" business planning. Don't remind me! Pretty much everything r/c related has gone up significantly, and some stuff is either unavailable forever or will take months to get here. As for the balsa-bashers among the fliers I know, they're pulling (what's left of) their hair out, as building-grade stuff is near impossible to source in in quantity without taking on a second mortgage! |
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 18, 2021 11:32:47 GMT
I guess it would be a good time to upgrade to a new car, but there's little out there that I can be persuaded is worth the significant additional outlay for anything which would actually feel like a worthwhile change.
Certainly I am glad that we have no need or desire to move house in the UK, and I'm just hoping that because our house is abundantly blessed with green outside space by central London standards, it's not going to take too much of a bashing price-wise.
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Post by alf on Jun 21, 2021 9:28:22 GMT
I looked into this in more detail and XFR with similar mileage/age to mine are being marketed for 25-26k by dealers - mostly random SH dealers. So yes the prices are up a lot in the last few months. If I could get near that, I'd be looking at £2k a year depreciation, for 3 years use and having quadrupled the mileage. Boxsters are higher too. The post-facelift 987 models ("987.2") seem to have a huge premium over the earlier cars, perhaps because of the doom and gloom around the 986 and 987.1 S engines (3.2 and 3.4) for track use. It throws up the odd car like this that is almost twice what I paid, but almost exactly the same to look at inside and out, and a whole 3mph faster, which makes me feel good about mine! AT have this as a "good" price too!! www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106153862510 |
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Post by Martin on Jun 21, 2021 9:43:03 GMT
I looked into this in more detail and XFR with similar mileage/age to mine are being marketed for 25-26k by dealers - mostly random SH dealers. So yes the prices are up a lot in the last few months. If I could get near that, I'd be looking at £2k a year depreciation, for 3 years use and having quadrupled the mileage. Boxsters are higher too. The post-facelift 987 models ("987.2") seem to have a huge premium over the earlier cars, perhaps because of the doom and gloom around the 986 and 987.1 S engines (3.2 and 3.4) for track use. It throws up the odd car like this that is almost twice what I paid, but almost exactly the same to look at inside and out, and a whole 3mph faster, which makes me feel good about mine! AT have this as a "good" price too!! www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106153862510That’s crazy! It’s not even a great spec…. plastic dash, no sports exhaust, no climate control, non adaptive suspension, xenon-lite headlights etc. I wonder how much our old one would be worth now, a lot more than we sold it for 3 years ago if that’s a good guide. But as has been said, the high prices make us feel good about lower than expected depreciation, but as the cost to change/upgrade has probably widened, it doesn’t actually help. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Jun 25, 2021 8:59:26 GMT
Just tried using Motorway for my Focus ST but its quite a complicated process. The cars a 2014 FT2 with 57K miles and they bid me £8200 with £200 worth of prep so call it 8K. WBAC are at £8800 so might go and see them and see what they try and do to pull my trousers down. If I advertise privately I think it'll be £9495 hoping to achieve 9K. It cost me £10,400 2 year and 15,000 miles ago so it'll be one of the best cars I've owned if I decide to move it on whilst prices are high. OK further info on this I persisted with Motorway to see what bids I would get from the trade and I was bid £9700 and someone from the dealer has just come and taken it away. Got to say motorway is a really good system and as dealers are falling over themselves to buy stock so I got a great price. So in nearly 3 years years it cost me £700 plus 2 cheap services at about £150 each and a set of tyres. If only all cars were as cost effective. |
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Post by PG on Jun 25, 2021 9:10:32 GMT
...It cost me £10,400 2 year and 15,000 miles ago so it'll be one of the best cars I've owned if I decide to move it on whilst prices are high. OK further info on this I persisted with Motorway to see what bids I would get from the trade and I was bid £9700 and someone from the dealer has just come and taken it away. Got to say motorway is a really good system and as dealers are falling over themselves to buy stock so I got a great price. So in nearly 3 years years it cost me £700 plus 2 cheap services at about £150 each and a set of tyres. If only all cars were as cost effective. Wow! |
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 25, 2021 9:27:16 GMT
Yes, indeed.
But I think two years ago was a particularly good time to buy a car - prices were on the floor. I was bid £17.5k part-ex for my car in Dec 2019 and today 18mths later I'm being bid at least £3k more than that.
And it's a particularly hot time to sell anything half-interesting. If I think about that approved used Macan Turbo PP I looked at about six months or so ago, it was stickered at something like £48k. Same car today would be anything up to £55k judging by prices on the Porsche approved used site.
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Post by johnc on Jun 25, 2021 10:09:00 GMT
My manager has just sold his Golf diesel R line through Motorway for £1,400 more than Arnold Clark would give him as a trade in even though they came up £500 and tried to convince him he wouldn't get a better offer anywhere else. It is also £1,500 more than WBAC so a very satisfactory deal. He now just needs to find the Golf GTi he wants!
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Post by franki68 on Jun 25, 2021 14:27:16 GMT
Just read an article saying that they expect this to continue for around 12 months such is the shortage of used stock.
Its a good time to sell ,and buy a new vehicle but I would be wary of buying used currently (he says after recently buying an ftype).
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Post by Sav on Jun 25, 2021 23:08:33 GMT
Depends on whether people want to buy at the current prices. Sytner are often the biggest pisstakers, but now a 3.5 year-old 140i is worth 28k?
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Post by racingteatray on Jun 25, 2021 23:28:21 GMT
Have you seen the new M135i? Makes the old one look positively pretty.
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Post by Sav on Jun 25, 2021 23:38:47 GMT
True, that no doubt has helped the prices of 140i's, and the fact that the replacement just gimmicks other hatches in the market now. Only a few months ago, 3.5 year old 140i's were about 24k tops, now there is a pretty basic-spec one for 28k. I see a lot of cars at prices that just don't shift.
I think with 340i prices, there is potentially a logic to it. Prices have risen, but the price gap to the M340i makes the predecessor look attractive. That has helped to increase F3x 40i prices. If you want that sort of car, the G2X versions are going to cost a lot more second-hand.
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Post by bryan on Jun 26, 2021 6:07:49 GMT
I just had a look at the Yeti on Motorway, and they valued it at £13k (not sure if the dealers bid up from there)
Not bad at all given we bought it for £16k In Dec 17 with 9k on the clock and it has now done 40k.
All theoretical as we have no plans to change it, nothing else appeals and it does its job perfectly. So shall run it into the ground.
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Post by PG on Jun 26, 2021 10:52:26 GMT
I looked at the Mini on Motorway. £21k. Considering we paid £23k for it 2 years ago, that's pretty amazing.
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Post by humphreythepug on Jun 27, 2021 16:21:31 GMT
You think used car prices are mental, look at vans; 4 year old Trafic with 50k on the clock is more than I could have done a brand new Trafic for, a year ago.
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Post by johnc on Jun 28, 2021 11:24:04 GMT
My manager is looking at both new and nearly new Golf GTi's and the lead time for a new car is 24-26 weeks and dealers don't have any stock of unsold cars. It's no wonder that used car prices are holding up really well.
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