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Post by johnc on Apr 6, 2021 13:59:59 GMT
My friend, who had a 991.1 Carrera S Convertible sold it privately recently for about £8K more than the local Porsche emporium's would offer him.
He has been looking for a suitable replacement (or more correctly I have been doing about 75% of the looking). Initially he was looking at the later 991.2 and even 992's but after driving a 991.2 he decided he preferred the naturally aspirated 991.1 3.8 litre engine.
He was originally looking for a GTS but given the scarcity would settle for a well specced S.
I have found a few cars which met his brief but they have all been sold almost instantly and prices are increasing. At the weekend he was offered a 2013 Targa 4S with 15K miles for £82,995. Surely that is too much for a 7/8 yr old car? He thought about it overnight and it was sold when he called back. It had an all mushroom interior (seats, dash, wheel etc) which I thought was more than questionable.
The naturally aspirated cars now appear to be more expensive than the 3 litre turbos which are a year or two younger.
I have tried to persuade him that a new Boxster GTS 4.0 might be a better bet but he is now definitely in the 911 only camp. It has to be a low mileage (20K max) S or GTS, a Cabrio, Targa or maybe a coupe with a sunroof.
He is also not keen on buying outwith the Porsche dealer network because an extended warranty for a non dealer sourced car would cost c£2,500 in total which is more than the differential in price between many independents and the official dealers.
If anyone has any comments or finds a car please let me know.
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 6, 2021 14:22:29 GMT
Porsche prices do seem to be going nuts. Especially late 997s.
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Post by Alex on Apr 6, 2021 14:36:04 GMT
So just to confirm, he had a 991.1. Sold it. Wanted to step back a generation to a 997 and now wants to essentially end up back where he started with another 991.1. And you're questioning why Porsche prices are going mad? With all due respect to your friend, I think buyers like him have a lot to do with it.
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Post by johnc on Apr 6, 2021 14:40:47 GMT
So just to confirm, he had a 991.1. Sold it. Wanted to step back a generation to a 997 and now wants to essentially end up back where he started with another 991.1. And you're questioning why Porsche prices are going mad? With all due respect to your friend, I think buyers like him have a lot to do with it. My mistake. There should have been no 997's in there! I will edit the post |
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Post by garry on Apr 6, 2021 16:04:45 GMT
My friend, who had a 991.1 Carrera S Convertible sold it privately recently for about £8K more than the local Porsche emporium's would offer him. He has been looking for a suitable replacement (or more correctly I have been doing about 75% of the looking). Initially he was looking at the later 991.2 and even 992's but after driving a 991.2 he decided he preferred the naturally aspirated 991.1 3.8 litre engine. He was originally looking for a GTS but given the scarcity would settle for a well specced S. I have found a few cars which met his brief but they have all been sold almost instantly and prices are increasing. At the weekend he was offered a 2013 Targa 4S with 15K miles for £82,995. Surely that is too much for a 7/8 yr old car? He thought about it overnight and it was sold when he called back. It had an all mushroom interior (seats, dash, wheel etc) which I thought was more than questionable. The naturally aspirated cars now appear to be more expensive than the 3 litre turbos which are a year or two younger. I have tried to persuade him that a new Boxster GTS 4.0 might be a better bet but he is now definitely in the 911 only camp. It has to be a low mileage (20K max) S or GTS, a Cabrio, Targa or maybe a coupe with a sunroof. He is also not keen on buying outwith the Porsche dealer network because an extended warranty for a non dealer sourced car would cost c£2,500 in total which is more than the differential in price between many independents and the official dealers. If anyone has any comments or finds a car please let me know. I'm confused. Why did he sell his 991.1? He seems to be trying to buy the same car. Personally I think 991 prices are nuts. As you say, these are 7/8 yr old cars. Parts of them are starting to feel old (the tech) and the best warranty in the world isn't going to cover you for the type of maintenance you'll require to keep that type of car in tip top condition (e.g suspension work) as it slips into old age. That 2013 Targa 4S price is crazy - two years down the line he's got a 10 year old out of warranty 911 that will never be rare enough to command some stratospheric price. A 4.0 gts is the answer. His ego is the problem. |
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Post by PG on Apr 6, 2021 16:36:05 GMT
He wants a 7/8 year old car that must have done 20k max? I know away from here, many Porkers are merely baubles for the mid-life-crisis brigade, but surely that mileage must mean he is fishing in an extremely small pond. Which begs the question why did he sell the one he had (sorry to repeat).
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Post by johnc on Apr 6, 2021 16:56:59 GMT
His old car was an early 2013 and had reached the heady heights of 30,000 miles. Lots of smallish things were starting to go wrong and he had just spent about £2K on some suspension work and bushes on top of its already expensive service. I was in it about 2 months ago and it did feel quite old.
I think, like the rest of us from time to time, he just wanted a change. His old car didn't have the proper flappy paddles, just the thumb press button on the steering wheel and that has always irritated him a bit, as has the cream coloured dash and steering wheel.
I can't blame him for wanting a change but I do think he needs to forget that the 991.2 is a turbo. Although he hasn't admitted it I reckon he believes that the naturally aspirated cars will hold their value better but I have told him that older cars always lose their value unless they become museum pieces. I think the 991.1 prices are currently in a bit of a bubble. Maybe it is where all the Bounce Back loan money is going!
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Post by Martin on Apr 6, 2021 17:13:53 GMT
Add me to the list of people who think the 991.1 is very expensive, lovely car, but as he found out with his last one they are at the age when things will go wrong. A 991.2 is also a lovely car and what he should be looking at.
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Post by garry on Apr 6, 2021 18:57:39 GMT
His old car was an early 2013 and had reached the heady heights of 30,000 miles. Lots of smallish things were starting to go wrong and he had just spent about £2K on some suspension work and bushes on top of its already expensive service. I was in it about 2 months ago and it did feel quite old. I think, like the rest of us from time to time, he just wanted a change. His old car didn't have the proper flappy paddles, just the thumb press button on the steering wheel and that has always irritated him a bit, as has the cream coloured dash and steering wheel. I can't blame him for wanting a change but I do think he needs to forget that the 991.2 is a turbo. Although he hasn't admitted it I reckon he believes that the naturally aspirated cars will hold their value better but I have told him that older cars always lose their value unless they become museum pieces. I think the 991.1 prices are currently in a bit of a bubble. Maybe it is where all the Bounce Back loan money is going! If he gets over the turbo issue he should go for a 992 S. There’s plenty in the Porsche network - 2020 cars with low miles from circa £90k. If a 991.1 feels old, a 991.2 isn’t much of a step up. A 992 feels way more modern. |
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Post by Tim on Apr 7, 2021 7:43:28 GMT
Hold on, his 30k mile Porsche felt old and needed quite a lot of fixing?
Surely it's time for him to sample a marque that makes cars that can manage to go a bit further before needing anything much.
You know, like ANY other manufacturer?
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 7, 2021 8:39:16 GMT
Only reason I see the 991 worth so much still is the 992 has failed to hit the mark. I'd take a 991.2 over a 992 all day everyday. But you can't think the premium will last for much longer so 90k on a Targa is a risky purchase when looking at depreciation.
If he wants minimal depreciation go for the GT models a 991 GT3 will be 70K plus for a while, a 997 GT3 the same. Of course you have to keep up of suspension work constantly which he might find a bore and the 991.1 GT3 is an old car now and have the engine issues to deal with as they'll be outside the 10 year warranty Porsche put on the motor soon.
How about a decent 991.2 T - Then send to Litchfield to extract 500HP and a bit of tweaking and you'll have a stonking car.
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 7, 2021 9:41:53 GMT
Hold on, his 30k mile Porsche felt old and needed quite a lot of fixing? Surely it's time for him to sample a marque that makes cars that can manage to go a bit further before needing anything much. You know, like ANY other manufacturer? This did cross my mind. My wife and I were poking around a friend's owned-from-new 18k mile 2015 Macan Turbo the other day. It felt well-made and finished to a much richer and more luxurious standard inside than our BMW. The leather in particular made the leather in our car look like rhino-grained plastic. But while he said he'd had no problems with it, it's barely been used and I have heard of Porsches being troublesome as they age. |
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Post by PG on Apr 7, 2021 9:56:34 GMT
Hold on, his 30k mile Porsche felt old and needed quite a lot of fixing? Surely it's time for him to sample a marque that makes cars that can manage to go a bit further before needing anything much. You know, like ANY other manufacturer? This did cross my mind. My wife and I were poking around a friend's owned-from-new 18k mile 2015 Macan Turbo the other day. It felt well-made and finished to a much richer and more luxurious standard inside than our BMW. The leather in particular made the leather in our car look like rhino-grained plastic. But while he said he'd had no problems with it, it's barely been used and I have heard of Porsches being troublesome as they age. That struck me as an odd comment too. I can see that suspension bushes may age at 7/8 years and so on, but "needed quite a lot of fixing" made me have a "WTF?" moment. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 7, 2021 9:57:40 GMT
Hold on, his 30k mile Porsche felt old and needed quite a lot of fixing? Surely it's time for him to sample a marque that makes cars that can manage to go a bit further before needing anything much. You know, like ANY other manufacturer? This did cross my mind. My wife and I were poking around a friend's owned-from-new 18k mile 2015 Macan Turbo the other day. It felt well-made and finished to a much richer and more luxurious standard inside than our BMW. The leather in particular made the leather in our car look like rhino-grained plastic. But while he said he'd had no problems with it, it's barely been used and I have heard of Porsches being troublesome as they age. To combat that argument if you go to Silverstone for a trackday over 50% of participants will be in a Porsche. Theres a reason for that, they take punishment like few other cars. They have issues because they tend to be driven hard. When I had the GT4 there were issues with the top mounts but when you do some research this was from cars bouncing off kerbs at 100mph for 1000miles on track. Nothing road based is going to take that. Something Italian is going to need suspension reviews after 10,000 miles. As your buying a Porsche you want it 100% so you don't need to replace the componentry if your happy with a looser feeling but your dealer or specialist is going to point out its not tip top and charge you to change. My 997 has had geo's and could do with changing the engine mount which at 11 years old and 50,000 miles I'm happy with. You must have driven Golfs or similar at 40,000 miles which has shocks that aren't working as they should? |
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Post by alf on Apr 7, 2021 10:11:59 GMT
Hold on, his 30k mile Porsche felt old and needed quite a lot of fixing? Surely it's time for him to sample a marque that makes cars that can manage to go a bit further before needing anything much. You know, like ANY other manufacturer? Says the owner of the "BMW have made me really angry - what BMW shall I buy next" thread  It's a fair point mind, as Stuntman's Cayman will attest - they seem to stay cosmetically great if well looked after but some of the mechanicals (mild steel used in the coolant pipes, engine issues, snapped springs) are not impressive and Porsche must make a fortune from the way they control parts prices - especially as they always point out that over two thirds of the cars they have ever made are still on the road. On the other hand, as Ed has said, speak to the people running track experiences (as I always do, most recently Thruxton) and they'll say the Porsches and R8's will lap all day long, and the Ferraris need massively expensive maintenance even if totally molly coddled. I see then as expensive to run, but fit for purpose, and I'm under no illusions I'll be spending money on mine! Current prices are interesting - I think (he says having just done it) a lot of people have come out of high regular mileage, are sitting at home, and see the appeal of a toy car to overcome another "stay local" borefest of a summer. Add that to the massive price increases in "future classics" right back to the 2008/9 recession, which seems to have accelerated in recent years, and the advent of turbocharging and electric motors (and some Porsches going - horror - 4 pot!!) and the time of year and the Porsche market is ripe for price rises. I collected mine yesterday (thread imminent) and in the paperwork was a receipt for it selling for £20k in 2011. It cost around £45k in 2006 new. I paid £16k in 2021 - £4k in a decade is good depreciation!!! Of course as they age then the good ones become rarer, I saw plenty on AT that looked to have landed in the, err, "wrong hands"? Mint ones become increasingly rare as they age. An "average" one would be over £150k miles and tatty at 16 years old after all... Then there is spec, I think people are overly bothered about it, but then I did it. I went to look at a £13,795 2006 "S" with 50k miles on it, perfect history, same colour - it just had nothing extra. Brookspeed say that is a big issue for sale - people want things like PASM, PSE, electric seats and Bose, very possibly I should have bought that one but I paid £2200 more for one of the same age with 2/3 the mileage mainly as it had memory seats (which I just love for a car driven by two people) and PASM (which having sampled it I would not have wanted a worse ride). Cars in the right spec are going to get expensive.... |
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Post by franki68 on Apr 7, 2021 10:17:34 GMT
Tell him not to buy a 991.1 targa ,if it’s a targa it must be .2 the extra weight blunts the performance too much in the n/a car
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Post by Tim on Apr 7, 2021 11:01:43 GMT
Hold on, his 30k mile Porsche felt old and needed quite a lot of fixing? Surely it's time for him to sample a marque that makes cars that can manage to go a bit further before needing anything much. You know, like ANY other manufacturer? Says the owner of the "BMW have made me really angry - what BMW shall I buy next" thread  Well yes but my car had done 123k miles and I know that a lot of those were not while cruising around looking at the reflection in shop windows! I don't think I've ever had a car that at 30k miles felt old and had needed fixing (apart from the Punto HGT that broke it's cam tensioner at 12k miles/8 months old). Surely at that mileage and being only a few years old it should only require routine servicing? I'm guessing John's friend hasn't taken his 911 Cab on track...... |
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Post by johnc on Apr 7, 2021 11:57:05 GMT
I'm guessing John's friend hasn't taken his 911 Cab on track...... You're right. It only comes out on sunny summer days for a blast on some great roads. I was talking to him this morning and his suspension issues were broken springs and perished bushes. He also had the self adjusting headlights seize up - apparently very common, some electrical gremlins that caused the windows not to operate all the time and the rear parking sensors to go off all on their own even when not reversing. |
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Post by Tim on Apr 7, 2021 13:06:53 GMT
Ah, the joys of Italian electrics!. The Germans have really mastered that art |
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Post by Martin on Apr 7, 2021 14:29:14 GMT
Our Boxster had done nearly 60k miles and was 7 years old when we sold it and it still felt great, only issue in the 4 years we had it was a leaking master cylinder (fixed under warranty). In 4 years and just over 40k miles it depreciated £10k which made it very cheap motoring and 3 years on I bet it wouldn’t be worth much less than we sold it for.
Used prices generally do seem to be pretty strong at the moment, it would cost the same to buy my car from a dealer now than it did 10 months ago, so I’m under my depreciation budget, not that I’m expecting it to keep going at that level. The Golf would retail at £25k+ (I’ve seen lesser specced cars for £27-28k) and I’d get £22k as a trade in, which is not bad considering the discounted price was £35k nearly 3 years ago, that’s a lot less depreciation than I expected.
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Post by Tim on Apr 7, 2021 14:57:14 GMT
Interesting cars of all flavours seem to be holding their values well, certainly all the ones I've been looking at (E9X M3s yesterday, when did they get so expensive?)
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Post by johnc on Apr 7, 2021 16:01:19 GMT
My friend has an E92 M3 which he has had since about 2007. He has spent a fortune over the years including getting an engine rebuild about 2 years ago and full suspension replacement. He was thinking about selling it last year but he used it a bit more due to Covid and he now intends to keep it for a while longer due to the increasing prices. I'll let you know if he is disposing of it. From first hand experience it does sideways on wet roundabouts with no effort at all and even results in unprompted expletives from the driver!
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Post by alf on Apr 7, 2021 16:53:49 GMT
I had E9X M3's down as good value (and with that engine a sure-fire future classic and amazing car to own) but I was mainly looking at the unloved open top versions. E46 M3's - cabs as well - are bonkers money for a good one as I mentioned already, even decent non-M ones like 330i (again "even" cabs) can be very expensive for a good one now. All this was part of the slippery slope towards doubling my budget on a 987 Boxster S  XFR prices are strong too - with plenty of chancers asking as much on AT for leggy pre-facelift cars as some tidy later ones. A lot of good kit seems very strong right now and all the talk of EV's and staycations will only be helping... |
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 7, 2021 18:13:19 GMT
Annoyingly my car seems to be far too much of a sleeper to be enjoying this value bounce.
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Post by Martin on Apr 7, 2021 18:29:43 GMT
Annoyingly my car seems to be far too much of a sleeper to be enjoying this value bounce. You should have bought that Macan, a decent spec performance pack car is now high £50s. |
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 7, 2021 19:03:43 GMT
Annoyingly my car seems to be far too much of a sleeper to be enjoying this value bounce. You should have bought that Macan, a decent spec performance pack car is now high £50s. Not with 45k miles on the clock and a poo-coloured interior. |
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Post by Martin on Apr 7, 2021 19:06:57 GMT
You should have bought that Macan, a decent spec performance pack car is now high £50s. Not with 45k miles on the clock and a poo-coloured interior. That’s a good point. |
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Post by Sav on Apr 7, 2021 22:08:24 GMT
A trader near me had a Boxster 4.0 manual for sale a few weeks ago. It was gone within the week it was advertised. Its like, yikes, it usually takes a few months for their stuff to get sold.
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Post by Martin on Apr 8, 2021 7:20:19 GMT
My local Porsche dealership had just listed (over the weekend) a nice spec Macan Turbo with Performance Pack which I was semi-tempted to arrange to have a look at, despite thinking it was a bit pricy vs new. It had only done 16k miles, but was a Sep 2017 car and they wanted £58,500. I have just looked and it has gone from their website, so obviously not as expensive as I thought.
My local specialist has a standard Turbo, nice spec as well and it's only done 10k miles, but it's a 16 reg and they are asking £50k.
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Post by Martin on Apr 8, 2021 7:30:03 GMT
A trader near me had a Boxster 4.0 manual for sale a few weeks ago. It was gone within the week it was advertised. Its like, yikes, it usually takes a few months for their stuff to get sold. There are a surprising number for sale, but I guess most are demo cars. Some good buys if you're not too desperate to get a particular spec, as they start from £67-68k which for those cars is at least £6k under list for a 6 month old car with less than 1,000 miles. |
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