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Post by alf on Mar 3, 2021 9:21:24 GMT
I've mentioned a few times that there is a mint late (2004) unusually coloured E46 M3 a few houses down from here, I walk/run past it daily and have pondered having a chat with the owner about it.
I had always assumed - at a total guess - it was worth perhaps £8-9k. Well last night I had a look on AT and good late ones like that were pretty much a case of put a "1" in front of it! Bloody hell. I recall E46 M3's being pentiful and cheap, what happened to that? It's a cabrio too and (though I haven't looked at coupes) they are not usually the sought-after M cars. Blimey.
So basically, the E46 M3 future classic ship has well and truly sailed... They are now at that daft stage where a 2003 E46 M3 cab is worth about the same as an E9X cab with lower mileage on a 2011 plate. Which is where it just gets silly IMHO - I'd take the newer V8 all day long.......
As a cheap toy I'd be interested in an old M3 cab. For the price my car is worth - errr no thanks!
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Post by Tim on Mar 3, 2021 10:27:55 GMT
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Post by Tim on Mar 3, 2021 11:38:13 GMT
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 3, 2021 11:50:10 GMT
For that engine, I'd rather have a Z4M roadster which are still sensibly priced.
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Post by Big Blue on Mar 3, 2021 12:56:26 GMT
Manuals make the good money. SMGs still largely avoided. Many have had subframes done or are fastidiously inspected at regular intervals. But yes, these have attained youngtimer classic status.
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Post by alf on Mar 3, 2021 15:44:09 GMT
Though that PH thread just goes to show the L O T U S nature of these cars - far from reliable or cheap to run, people on there said they were ruinous at 5 years old let alone 15!!! There must be cheaper options out there - mk1 Boxsters for a start - that are as "enthusiast" and not more hassle. And some that are still a lot of fun but below the future classic radar....
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Post by Blarno on Mar 3, 2021 15:52:15 GMT
Manuals make the good money. SMGs still largely avoided. Many have had subframes done or are fastidiously inspected at regular intervals. But yes, these have attained youngtimer classic status.
I watched an episode of Wheeler Dealers the other day where Brewer bought an SMG equipped M3 with a dodgy gearbox and converted it to manual. I never realised the gearbox on the SMG was actually the same ZF box in the manual, just with electrohydraulic actuation gubbins. Ant whipped all the gubbins off, fitted a clutch pedal, shift lever and master cylinder and away they went. Profit.
That means that BMW's nomenclature for the box is a little bit cheeky, as it isn't actually a sequential box, which has the gears stacked differently and, well, sequentially.
It also made me think whether the 7 speed SMG in the E60 M5 was actually a manual with gubbins attached.
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Post by PetrolEd on Mar 3, 2021 16:08:50 GMT
Manuals make the good money. SMGs still largely avoided. Many have had subframes done or are fastidiously inspected at regular intervals. But yes, these have attained youngtimer classic status.
I watched an episode of Wheeler Dealers the other day where Brewer bought an SMG equipped M3 with a dodgy gearbox and converted it to manual. I never realised the gearbox on the SMG was actually the same ZF box in the manual, just with electrohydraulic actuation gubbins. Ant whipped all the gubbins off, fitted a clutch pedal, shift lever and master cylinder and away they went. Profit.
That means that BMW's nomenclature for the box is a little bit cheeky, as it isn't actually a sequential box, which has the gears stacked differently and, well, sequentially.
It also made me think whether the 7 speed SMG in the E60 M5 was actually a manual with gubbins attached.
Good question re the M5. There are a number of E46 CSLs with the conversion as its not that expensive to complete and you can run it as a manual for a few years and change it back to SMG when you come to sell it and hopefully the appreciation will pay for the work. |
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Post by alf on Mar 3, 2021 16:41:24 GMT
I'm fairly sure the E60 M5 has a proper motorsport-style (and thus totally unsuited for the road except when totally "on it") sequential gearbox. I have driven lightweight sports cars like Caterhams and Furies with both normal, and sequential, gearboxes and the latter are great on a track but really not a great plan for a "do it all" sort of car like the M5. As I think Racing can attest on here - he thought it was so funky it addled his brain into buying a diesel.... Or was it the other way around??
That said, in the US there were manual V10 M5's I believe - in a weird reversal of the norm - I've no idea how they were viewed in the US, there might be money in bringing them here!
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Post by Tim on Mar 3, 2021 16:52:30 GMT
Though that PH thread just goes to show the L O T U S nature of these cars - far from reliable or cheap to run, people on there said they were ruinous at 5 years old let alone 15!!! There must be cheaper options out there - mk1 Boxsters for a start - that are as "enthusiast" and not more hassle. And some that are still a lot of fun but below the future classic radar.... I thought Boxsters also had a variety of issues, I certainly remember some massive dislike of their chocolate qualities at the garage. |
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Post by Tim on Mar 3, 2021 16:53:38 GMT
I'm fairly sure the E60 M5 has a proper motorsport-style (and thus totally unsuited for the road except when totally "on it") sequential gearbox. I have driven lightweight sports cars like Caterhams and Furies with both normal, and sequential, gearboxes and the latter are great on a track but really not a great plan for a "do it all" sort of car like the M5. As I think Racing can attest on here - he thought it was so funky it addled his brain into buying a diesel.... Or was it the other way around?? That said, in the US there were manual V10 M5's I believe - in a weird reversal of the norm - I've no idea how they were viewed in the US, there might be money in bringing them here! They had a 6 speed manual that might've been the same as the E39 M5 box. Or it was a Getrag box. I read that the change was a bit clunky but can't remember in comparison to what exactly. |
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Post by Blarno on Mar 3, 2021 17:02:26 GMT
I'm fairly sure the E60 M5 has a proper motorsport-style (and thus totally unsuited for the road except when totally "on it") sequential gearbox. I have driven lightweight sports cars like Caterhams and Furies with both normal, and sequential, gearboxes and the latter are great on a track but really not a great plan for a "do it all" sort of car like the M5. As I think Racing can attest on here - he thought it was so funky it addled his brain into buying a diesel.... Or was it the other way around?? That said, in the US there were manual V10 M5's I believe - in a weird reversal of the norm - I've no idea how they were viewed in the US, there might be money in bringing them here!
The sequential box in the Mono is a dick when you're not tanking it, but it is a full-on motorsport straight cut job.
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Post by Tim on Mar 3, 2021 17:04:36 GMT
From Wiki
Transmission
The M5 uses the SMG-III 7-speed single-clutch automated manual transmission, that performs gear shifts in 65–250 milliseconds, depending on the gear shifting mode.[57]
The SMG-III includes launch control, a hill holder, shift-lock avoidance (by briefly disengaging the clutch during downshifts) and an automatic shift mode.[58] However, many reviews have observed the automatic mode of the transmission at low or frequent stop start speeds as being less smooth than that of a conventional automatic transmission.[59][60][61][62][63][64]
In North America, a conventional six-speed manual transmission was announced in October 2006.[65] The SMG-III remained the default transmission in North America, while the manual was available as a no cost option.[66][67] The six-speed manual M5 was marginally slower in certain tests, as the dynamic stability control could not be disengaged unlike the SMG version[68][69] (however this was later made possible and a retrofit was released for earlier cars).[70] In North America, the launch control for SMG transmissions is set at 1,500 rpm, instead of the 4,000 rpm used in other regions.
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Post by Andy C on Mar 3, 2021 18:13:31 GMT
I watched an episode of Wheeler Dealers the other day where Brewer bought an SMG equipped M3 with a dodgy gearbox and converted it to manual. I never realised the gearbox on the SMG was actually the same ZF box in the manual, just with electrohydraulic actuation gubbins. Ant whipped all the gubbins off, fitted a clutch pedal, shift lever and master cylinder and away they went. Profit.
That means that BMW's nomenclature for the box is a little bit cheeky, as it isn't actually a sequential box, which has the gears stacked differently and, well, sequentially.
It also made me think whether the 7 speed SMG in the E60 M5 was actually a manual with gubbins attached.
Good question re the M5. There are a number of E46 CSLs with the conversion as its not that expensive to complete and you can run it as a manual for a few years and change it back to SMG when you come to sell it and hopefully the appreciation will pay for the work. Just listen to it (8min 34 ish) I also remember when I was looking on autotrader at manual e46 m3s , on 18s for around £12k . It was a while ago and not surprised they’ve rocketed. |
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 3, 2021 18:28:29 GMT
I'm fairly sure the E60 M5 has a proper motorsport-style (and thus totally unsuited for the road except when totally "on it") sequential gearbox. I have driven lightweight sports cars like Caterhams and Furies with both normal, and sequential, gearboxes and the latter are great on a track but really not a great plan for a "do it all" sort of car like the M5. As I think Racing can attest on here - he thought it was so funky it addled his brain into buying a diesel.... Or was it the other way around?? That said, in the US there were manual V10 M5's I believe - in a weird reversal of the norm - I've no idea how they were viewed in the US, there might be money in bringing them here! I bought the M5 as a reaction against the 330d. But yes a rather hateful gearbox IMHO. It only really works when you're at max attack in the most aggressive of its 11 or so modes and using the paddles to change gear. Anything else felt like the gearbox was attached to the engine by elastic bands. The first time I test-drove it in its default comfort setting, the change was so extraordinarily ponderous, I genuinely thought there was something wrong with it. The saleswoman had to explain how to up the shift speed to something approximating normality. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 18:33:51 GMT
I do like that, a lot.
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Post by Blarno on Mar 3, 2021 19:46:58 GMT
From Wiki Transmission
The M5 uses the SMG-III 7-speed single-clutch automated manual transmission, that performs gear shifts in 65–250 milliseconds, depending on the gear shifting mode.[57]
The SMG-III includes launch control, a hill holder, shift-lock avoidance (by briefly disengaging the clutch during downshifts) and an automatic shift mode.[58] However, many reviews have observed the automatic mode of the transmission at low or frequent stop start speeds as being less smooth than that of a conventional automatic transmission.[59][60][61][62][63][64]
In North America, a conventional six-speed manual transmission was announced in October 2006.[65] The SMG-III remained the default transmission in North America, while the manual was available as a no cost option.[66][67] The six-speed manual M5 was marginally slower in certain tests, as the dynamic stability control could not be disengaged unlike the SMG version[68][69] (however this was later made possible and a retrofit was released for earlier cars).[70] In North America, the launch control for SMG transmissions is set at 1,500 rpm, instead of the 4,000 rpm used in other regions.If I'm reading that correctly, it's a regular 7 speed manual. |
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Post by Tim on Mar 4, 2021 9:38:04 GMT
#Me too.  |
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