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Post by alf on Nov 19, 2020 16:25:03 GMT
I agree with the daily torygraph quotes in PG's post above. I'm fairly sanguine about all this - fossil fuel supplies are limited. Burning them does shag the planet. There is an enormous commercial opportunity in being relatively early to the table in "green" tech (ignore how green it actually is, that's another point) and most importantly - if driving is significantly less environmentally damaging, then that freedom and pleasure we all enjoy should be protected.
It may not be as simple as that however, when you look at road deaths and also the pollution from tyres/brakes which is getting a lot of bad press lately. I suspect there will always be the "back to the stone age" brigade, but they will generally be trumped by eager consumers willing to enjoy life, who have more votes.
On the "how" point, the infrastructure challenges are immense in a densely populated country with so many houses where people do not park on their drive, and already-creaking infrastructure. I'm glad that's not my problem to solve, but yes there must be investment opportunities - and I'll be looking at companies operating fleets of people installing said charging points as potential customers for sure...
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Post by Tim on Nov 19, 2020 17:02:28 GMT
.... but yes there must be investment opportunities - and I'll be looking at companies operating fleets of people installing said charging points as potential customers for sure... Aren't Shell and BP in the forefront of that having bought over some smaller companies? |
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Post by Alex on Nov 19, 2020 17:26:19 GMT
I know it sounds simplistic but road pricing is currently already happening but in the form of fuel duty. The more you use and the further you drive the more you pay. The trouble is that fuel duty cannot be levied on electricity that is being supplied via the domestic mains electrical system (you could arguably levy it via standalone EV charging points but that just makes it cheaper to charge at home so people wont use them).
Essentially the treasury have realised this and so are looking at road pricing as a tool to replace the fuel duty no longer being paid by drivers once they switch to electric cars. Where this is potentially unfair is on those who still have to buy fuel and so essentially pay it twice. You could counter this by only charging drivers of EVs but that would go against the idea of trying to incentivise drivers to switch away from ICE powered cars as many might see it as cheaper to just stick with petrol, especially given the current cost of EVs which are typically at least 50% more expensive.
The cost of implementing road pricing will be huge and will be reliant on black boxes being in all cars, old and new. I reckon there will he different charges based on peak usage so you pay more to use the road between 8am and 9am and again from 5pm to 6pm. Or they might charge more for certain roads so if you're willing to pay extra you can use the motorway but if you're going on holiday and have more time you can save some money by ducking off onto a more scenic A or B road.
One thing is for certain however it comes. Motoring ain't going to get any cheaper!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 19, 2020 17:27:24 GMT
And the fact that said batteries, once depleted, can't be recycled. Yes they can be, there's a whole industry dedicated to it. Tesla will power its Gigafactories entirely on renewable energy and recycle the batteries at end of life to recover the precious metals. |
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 19, 2020 17:44:47 GMT
.... but yes there must be investment opportunities - and I'll be looking at companies operating fleets of people installing said charging points as potential customers for sure... Aren't Shell and BP in the forefront of that having bought over some smaller companies? Yes. These are companies with billions of turnover based on production in one type of fuel that can afford to invest billions in other types that are more viable in other lucrative markets. Dividends must continue to flow. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 18:06:10 GMT
And the fact that said batteries, once depleted, can't be recycled. Yes they can be, there's a whole industry dedicated to it. I used to work with a bloke like you. He was always right, as well. OK, so lithium ion batteries can be recycled, but it's costly, energy intensive, produces harmful emmissions and not all of the materials can be recovered. It's also estimated that we only recycle between 2 and 5% of all the batteries made. Most phone ones, jist get binned and end up in landfill. |
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 19, 2020 18:44:38 GMT
I agree with the daily torygraph quotes in PG's post above. I'm fairly sanguine about all this - fossil fuel supplies are limited. I remember when I was a kid we were being told that supplied of oil would run out around the year 2000 .... but we have found more, and got better at recovering how much oil is in the fields that are discovered. Whereas initially it was difficult to get more than about 50% out of an underground "reservoir", we can now get a much higher percentage.... Bob S may know a lot more about this ... but the supplies are not limitless and ultimately we will have to find something else to power our vehicles. |
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Post by michael on Nov 19, 2020 19:10:45 GMT
As my parents left the oil and gas industry about ten years ago the view was we would run out of uses before running out of oil.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 19:27:48 GMT
Marine diesel fuel, the most noxious of fuels is STILL in use and will be for decades. They keep this crap and ban cleaner fuels? Nuts.  |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 19, 2020 19:28:11 GMT
Yes they can be, there's a whole industry dedicated to it. I used to work with a bloke like you. He was always right, as well. OK, so lithium ion batteries can be recycled, but it's a costly, energy intensive, produces harmful emmissions and not all of the materials can be recovered. It's also estimated that we only recycle between 2 and 5% of all the batteries made. Most phone ones, jist get binned amd go to landfill. It’s not my fault that because you spend so much time on the dark web researching conspiracy fantasies you don’t even do any basic fact checking of what you spout. Anyway, as you say, in this case I’m not wrong and the 2 to 5% figure covers all batteries, mostly the traditional lead acid you buy for the kids toys. To suggest 95% of EV batteries would go to landfill is ludicrous. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 19, 2020 19:32:19 GMT
I agree with the daily torygraph quotes in PG's post above. I'm fairly sanguine about all this - fossil fuel supplies are limited. I remember when I was a kid we were being told that supplied of oil would run out around the year 2000 .... but we have found more, and got better at recovering how much oil is in the fields that are discovered. Whereas initially it was difficult to get more than about 50% out of an underground "reservoir", we can now get a much higher percentage.... Bob S may know a lot more about this ... but the supplies are not limitless and ultimately we will have to find something else to power our vehicles. You’re absolutely right, Chris. Wells were traditionally capped and abandoned when their natural pressure dropped, usually when only 30 -50% of the reservoir was recovered. Now it’s all about enhanced oil recovery where sea water is injected back into the well to raise the pressure and get another 25-30% out. Peak oil is often talked about but we’re not there yet. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 19, 2020 19:34:38 GMT
I used to work with a bloke like you. He was always right, as well. OK, so lithium ion batteries can be recycled, but it's a costly, energy intensive, produces harmful emmissions and not all of the materials can be recovered. It's also estimated that we only recycle between 2 and 5% of all the batteries made. Most phone ones, jist get binned amd go to landfill. It’s not my fault that because you spend so much time on the dark web researching conspiracy fantasies you don’t even do any basic fact checking of what you spout. Open goal springs to mind. Anyway, as you say, in this case I’m not wrong and the 2 to 5% figure covers all batteries, mostly the traditional lead acid you buy for the kids toys. To suggest 95% of EV batteries would go to landfill is ludicrous. |
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