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Post by bryan on Nov 17, 2020 23:54:45 GMT
We went and had 2 new tyres for the Yeti fitted today, 2 cross climates to replace the original Hankook tyres 2mm front and 4mm rear, not bad after 38k.
I asked for them to replace the 2mm fronts and Costco refused saying they had to do a rotation and put the 4mm rears on the front?
He maintained you wanted the best grip on the rear and could go round corners faster! I said it didn't make sense given you would want the best multi season tyres on the front driven wheels, rather than half worn fairly crap summers but he was not for shifting! Even said it was what Michelin instructed them to do...
Is it me or is that a crazy policy and a bit dangerous?
Got to decide if I swap the tyres back round tomorrow or if we bite the bullet and get another 2 fitted early.
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Post by Boxer6 on Nov 18, 2020 7:15:35 GMT
I've had this same discussion with both Kwik-Fit and my more usual indy supplier, and they both said the same as your Costco guy. I looked it up (couple of years ago now, so no idea what site/s I was on) and that seems to be accurate.
Indy fella put the new ones on the front like I asked, though, and I did so for the same reasons you gave!
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 18, 2020 7:47:26 GMT
That's standard policy. The better tyres should go on the rear.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 18, 2020 7:48:06 GMT
Swop them round so the driving, steering, and majority breaking wheels have the Crossclimates on. His argument doesn’t make sense. ATS agreed with me.
If his argument is correct why would you put snowchains on the front wheels of a FWD car? You’d put them on the back.
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Post by Martin on Nov 18, 2020 8:03:04 GMT
The advice is that better tyres should go on the rear as unexpected understeer is safer than oversteer. I wouldn't want to mix new all seasons with 'fairly crap' summers, so would have changed all four, 4mm isn't all that early and well worth the cost to have decent grip all round.
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 18, 2020 9:40:10 GMT
Yes, that's the reason they do it. I would have changed all four too.
When I had the new tyres on the Defender, I put the new ones on the back and swapped the less worn rears to the front.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 18, 2020 9:56:14 GMT
The advice is that better tyres should go on the rear as unexpected understeer is safer than oversteer. I wouldn't want to mix new all seasons with 'fairly crap' summers, so would have changed all four, 4mm isn't all that early and well worth the cost to have decent grip all round. This, I would deffo have got all 4 changed to Cross Climates |
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Post by johnc on Nov 18, 2020 10:57:45 GMT
Those rules sound as though they were designed by the "nobody is allowed fun" department. A FWD with more grip at the front can be great fun if you know to keep the boot in to pull you out of trouble. In snowy and icy conditions you would also get a lot further.
However if it were the wife's car I would have changed all 4. Also if the old ones lasted that long it is unlikely you will need to change tyres again whilst you own the car.
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 18, 2020 11:24:33 GMT
That's standard policy. The better tyres should go on the rear. Indeed ...... except when you have different types of tyres. Surely if you are only fitting 2 crossclimates, they should go on the driven wheels? However I personally would not mix tyre types and would have had crossclimates fitted to all 4 wheels ..... which is what I did on the Captur around 18 months ago, except that the rears were also significantly worn. With 4mm left, it may be worth changing to crossclimates but keeping the old tyres, to go back on next spring along with 2 new "summer" tyres for the other wheels (if you have room to store the set that is then not being used) |
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 18, 2020 11:47:00 GMT
Oh, I agree in this case, but I wouldn't have replaced the two as I don't like mixing tyres.
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Post by Blarno on Nov 18, 2020 12:29:12 GMT
The advice doesn't really work when you have staggered tyre sizes.
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Post by bryan on Nov 18, 2020 13:18:51 GMT
Ironically we tried to change all 4 but were told the rears are only half worn so no need to swap them...... I'll go back and insist they swap the 4mm tyres to cross climates too
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 18, 2020 16:02:03 GMT
The advice doesn't really work when you have staggered tyre sizes. Nope. There are stories on Pistonheads regarding Costco trying to insist on rotation despite this and thick tyre fitters not understanding. |
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Post by alf on Nov 20, 2020 16:21:37 GMT
Advice is always to put the newer tyres on the rear (if its not staggered and you therefore have a choice) though I can understand why people might want to put them on the front of a FWD car if the rears are not desperately low on tread and the types are the same.
As I have mentioned before, in my (and the tyre industry's) opinion mixing types of tyre is a no-no. Here is why - assume you have one axle of summer tyres and one of winters. You might think that winters on the front is a great budget plan on a FWD car - however in winter conditions, starting with just cold wet roads, there will be a big grip differential between front and rear. You may think you are a good driver, your car has ESC, and so on, but ESC, ABS, brake biasing systems and so on are not designed to deal with a totally different order of magnitude of grip front and rear. Enter a frosty corner and you could spin like a top and die.
Do the reverse - winter rears and summer fronts - and while the grip differential will not be as high, you are again risking disaster under high cornering loads in conditions better suited to the front tyres. You may still spin like a top and die, this time in warmer weather. You are still dead.
All seasons may be a compromise tyre and grippy in most conditions (if lacking in driver appeal), but they still have massive differences in grip compared to summers in cold conditions - especially snow. Again you are potentially risking a huge grip difference and a loss of control so sudden no person or car system can deal with it. Good all season tyres are within a few % of a winter in snow, and on cold wet roads, and summers may be many hundreds of % behind - again it's a gap you should not be willingly creating.
All this is from someone who enjoys hooning - but, even on track, to hoon safely you need to start with predictable, consistent preconditions and mixing tyre types is not that. Even mixing budgets and good tyres is not a great ideal. Do you realise the dealer margin on a £60 budget tyre can be £30? On a £190 premium tyre its more like a tenner. So the budget tyre actually cost them £30. Not overly amazing then that some of the tyre dealers I work with drum test budget brands before selling them as they have seen so many explode at motorway speeds. They still sell the slightly better ones, mind, to make more money.....
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Post by Martin on Nov 20, 2020 16:54:21 GMT
I’ve not tried them about about 15-16c, but the Crossclimate+ are surprisingly good outside of the winter months. They don’t ruin the way the car drives either.
I wouldn’t want them on the Golf all year, but on a more standard hatch they would be fine. Not tried them in snow yet, but I’ve been impressed in the last couple of cold and wet winters and I think they suit the English winters well, because even a good winter tyre doesn’t feel great when the temperatures get into double figures which they can easily do between Nov/Dec and Feb/Mar.
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Post by alf on Nov 20, 2020 17:10:46 GMT
We (in my old life) had crossclimates on the C Max and for that they were ideal. Much better in the summer than budget summers, and really really impressive in the winter. On snow, the C Max with those on was considerably more capable than my car on full winters. I think its only on sheet ice that full winters have an advantage, and we get little of that here.
The fact they are so close to the full winters in snow is one obvious reason why mixing them with summers is a bad plan...
I was watching some tyre reviews this week and the only shame with all season tyres is that they still feel much like a winter tyre to the driver, lacking that weighty feeback summer tyres give when cornering.
Also don't disregard the all season that we (Bridgestone) make, the A005. It's one of the few (with the crossclimate) that is biased more towards the rest of the year, being grippy on wet roads especially, yet can handle snow well enough, and aeons ahead of a summer, for the odd snowy day.
The trouble is, purists like us - that want good feel - and/or people with very high power or heavy cars - are not best served by all seasons...
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Post by Andy C on Nov 20, 2020 18:17:06 GMT
I’ve been looking into all seasons for my mums car and it seems Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen 3 seem to have cleaned up in the reviews and beat cross climates pretty much everywhere
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Post by bryan on Nov 20, 2020 19:35:39 GMT
Costco restocked and we now have Crossclimates all round, Yeti feels good on them and much grippier. Not bad at £110 a corner
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Post by clunes on Nov 22, 2020 11:06:35 GMT
I'd have preferred some of the new 'all seasons' (like a typical geek I've been watching tyre review vids on YouTube and the new ones are very impressive and the videos themselves are very interesting) but the spare set of alloys I picked up on eBay are fitted with more winter oriente tyres at the moment so will run with those for at least this season (they are slightly older model Bridgestone Blizzak and Goodyear Ultragrips). A part of me is kind of hoping for inclement weather so I can try them out.
In the long run I'll probably get good all seasons for the winter months and stick with the summers for spring/summer as that seems the best compromise for our UK weather conditions where it rarely snows but is very often cold & wet (where the winters will perform less well than an all season)!
Amazing to see how rapidly tyre technology moves
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Post by Martin on Nov 22, 2020 11:39:47 GMT
Have a look at the latest 2020 all season tyre tests on the Tyrereviews website, they are very close to winters in the snow now and a lot better when it’s dry and mild.
Michelin have brought out a Pilot Sport All Season 4 which looks great in all conditions other than a proper covering of snow when it’s pretty hopeless, but in light snow/slush when the tyre can get down to the tarmac it’s fine.
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Post by clunes on Nov 22, 2020 12:51:28 GMT
Have a look at the latest 2020 all season tyre tests on the Tyrereviews website, they are very close to winters in the snow now and a lot better when it’s dry and mild. Michelin have brought out a Pilot Sport All Season 4 which looks great in all conditions other than a proper covering of snow when it’s pretty hopeless, but in light snow/slush when the tyre can get down to the tarmac it’s fine. Those are the reviews I’ve been looking at - very impressive spread of performance from the new all seasons and will be on my list in future but can’t really justify right now after getting the new alloys + tyres as they all have a decent amount of tread etc and I’m trying to save for future house building plans. These will get me anywhere I need to go should the weather turn nasty and i drive to the conditions so won’t be chucking it around in the greasy conditions over the coming months. Next year if plans with the house go well I might well change ‘up’ to a decent all season |
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Post by Andy C on Nov 24, 2020 22:34:40 GMT
Just got a Black Friday 15% deal... 4 Goodyear all season vector gen3 for my mums car with mobile fitted included from Halfords, nearly £50 off.
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