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Post by Martin on Nov 10, 2020 16:42:11 GMT
The new P Zeros did pretty well in the Evo 2020 tyre test (in the latest issue), but the PS4S still comes out on top.
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Post by johnc on Nov 11, 2020 8:43:34 GMT
In the warmth of a dry summer, my car has so much grip it gets a bit frightening: way too much grip to exploit safely on the road. I have no traction issues or grip issues at all. However the Jekyll and Hyde characteristics when it is cold and damp are equally as shocking and the wear rate suggests that the rears will need replaced sometime next summer. They will not even have covered 10,000 miles by that time.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 11, 2020 12:58:20 GMT
My car's front tyres have covered 37k and still have 5mm of tread on them. I've just replaced both rears because one had a puncture and they had 4mm of tread on them. Outstanding wear!
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Post by Tim on Nov 11, 2020 13:57:59 GMT
My car's front tyres have covered 37k and still have 5mm of tread on them. I've just replaced both rears because one had a puncture and they had 4mm of tread on them. Outstanding wear! What, replacing only 1 axle set! Good luck with your transfer box..... |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 11, 2020 14:57:52 GMT
My car's front tyres have covered 37k and still have 5mm of tread on them. I've just replaced both rears because one had a puncture and they had 4mm of tread on them. Outstanding wear! What, replacing only 1 axle set! Good luck with your transfer box..... The new rears have 6.5mm tread, so I'm good. |
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Post by Tim on Nov 11, 2020 15:10:37 GMT
Ok, that's fine then.
I don't think my fronts have as much tread as yours and I've probably only done about 10k on them.
Mind you the road from my house to the town and back includes some excellent corners that encourage maximum attack and I've been through them every couple of days since January so that may explain it.
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Post by alf on Nov 16, 2020 16:22:29 GMT
The new P Zeros did pretty well in the Evo 2020 tyre test (in the latest issue), but the PS4S still comes out on top. I scanned through that one at the weekend (after giving the thumbs up to the P Zeros on here). At the wet track stage I was convinced the P Zero would win, with the Michelin well down on pace and subjectively last in the wet, and weak on some other wet metrics like braking and aquaplaning. Then the PS4 comes storming back in the dry. I need to read it properly but if the test was done at 35 degrees in France or somewhere, then given that most touching cloth moments in UK driving tend to come in the wet in high power cars, I'm not sure I'd necessarily be running out to buy the (always top in the price stakes) Michelin. I had one flavour of Pilot Sport (2's I think) and have never had tyres before or since that were so affected by temperature, the Goodyear Eagle F1's on that same car were far more consistent in UK conditions. The tyre tests are always a tad open to interpretation as the tyre compounds, tread patterns, and characteristics vary a lot in different sizes and on different vehicles. A lot of the discussion on balance especially may be different on a RWD car... |
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Post by johnc on Nov 16, 2020 16:34:18 GMT
And my PZeros are probably the worst tyres I have ever experienced for their reaction to temperature (apart from some short lived Pirelli P6's I had on an XR2 many years ago which contrived to kill me every time it got cold and wet).
My thoughts of changing to PS4's are mostly based on what others have said about the tyre including people like Joe Achilles who has driven the M5 with both PS4S and PZero and has commented on the significant difference between the two.
I wonder if making tyres can be a bit like baking a cake - some days you get it perfect and other days it's just not as good.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 16, 2020 21:02:31 GMT
I switched my old Cayman from P zeros to PS4S and the difference was night and day. No tyre skip at 5 mph when manovering to not melting on track when pushing on and they were a lot better in the wet then the Pirelli .
I’ve yet to read the evo test but I’m surprised the Michelin was seen as poor In the wet.
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 16, 2020 22:17:52 GMT
I had PZeros on the Legacy when I couldn't get the OEM Bridgestone Potenzas.
They were fine until they were half worn when the wet weather performance fell off a cliff without much warning. All feel was lost. I couldn't wait to get rid of them and changed them with several mm of tread left as they were that awful.
We had Michelin on the Mazda and they were miles better than the Pirellis it came with. Can get them in that size now so have Uniroyal Rainsports on it now and I like them.
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Post by Boxer6 on Nov 16, 2020 22:41:27 GMT
I had PZeros on the Legacy when I couldn't get the OEM Bridgestone Potenzas. They were fine until they were half worn when the wet weather performance fell off a cliff without much warning. All feel was lost. I couldn't wait to get rid of them and changed them with several mm of tread left as they were that awful. We had Michelin on the Mazda and they were miles better than the Pirellis it came with. Can get them in that size now so have Uniroyal Rainsports on it now and I like them. Agreed re the Pirellis; I think mine were Zero Rossos, but they were shocking even in the dry when there waw quite a few mm left on them. Scary at times even. If I remember correctly, I shifted on to Hankooks after them, a much better tyre all round.
Currently running Rainsport 3's on the Skoda and they're absolutely fine for this car.
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Post by Stuntman on Nov 24, 2020 21:08:34 GMT
My new GTS is on these new Pirelli P Zeros and after 470 miles so far, I am not keen on them. They currently aren't offering much in the way of feel or feedback at all.
Interestingly, the demo car I tested was also on Pirelli P Zeros and it felt significantly more feelsome than my own car.
I need to have a proper play next weekend on quiet wider roads, but initial impressions are a bit disappointing and I am hoping it's more about the tyres than the underlying feel. Perhaps there are some alignment tweaks that could be done to my car (while keeping everything OEM) that might dial in a bit more steering feedback?
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Post by michael on Nov 24, 2020 21:18:45 GMT
Could that be temperature related? Or possibly greasier roads since your test drive?
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 24, 2020 21:27:44 GMT
Have you checked the tyre pressures?
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Post by johnc on Nov 25, 2020 8:20:25 GMT
My PZeros go from being heroes above about 10 degrees to Zeros below it. It's like a switch where one day you marvel at the dry grip and the next cooler and damp day you get wheel spin and unexpected slides. In the summer they are still pretty good in the wet but it is the lower temperature that just switches them off.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 25, 2020 9:41:57 GMT
My new GTS is on these new Pirelli P Zeros and after 470 miles so far, I am not keen on them. They currently aren't offering much in the way of feel or feedback at all. Interestingly, the demo car I tested was also on Pirelli P Zeros and it felt significantly more feelsome than my own car. I need to have a proper play next weekend on quiet wider roads, but initial impressions are a bit disappointing and I am hoping it's more about the tyres than the underlying feel. Perhaps there are some alignment tweaks that could be done to my car (while keeping everything OEM) that might dial in a bit more steering feedback? I think I have the same as yours, mine are the N2's. Certainly the understeer is pronounced on wet roads. I'm too tight to get rid of a near new set of tyres however. I was thinking of getting the toe adjusted to make it a little more pointy. Its a fine line between perfection and something that becomes a ditchfinder. As others have said its most likely weather related. I'd seek out some advise on pistonheads as I know there were a number of tweaks to the GT4 or call centre Gravity to get their take on it. I'm sure they've already had a few GTS through their hands for small improvements |
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Post by johnc on Nov 25, 2020 10:54:45 GMT
Is the caster adjustable - a bit more makes turn in much more positive.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 25, 2020 18:27:45 GMT
My PZeros go from being heroes above about 10 degrees to Zeros below it. It's like a switch where one day you marvel at the dry grip and the next cooler and damp day you get wheel spin and unexpected slides. In the summer they are still pretty good in the wet but it is the lower temperature that just switches them off. I have Sottozero winter tyres and they do something in reverse. Heroic in very cold, snowy and icy conditions. Horrible in mild and wet conditions. |
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Post by Stuntman on Nov 25, 2020 20:25:26 GMT
Thanks chaps.
Pressures are fine - exactly as Porsche recommends in the manual (33 PSI all round when cold).
The car goes where I point it and does not have noticeable understeer at the speeds I'm currently driving it. There is just very little feel. The only feedback I get is when I push the car reasonably hard through a fast left, and I can feel the LSD working and the steering weight up as it tries to self-centre. I don't have enough trust in the car yet to push it reasonably hard through a fast right, because it isn't talking to me on corner entry.
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Post by franki68 on Nov 26, 2020 12:12:11 GMT
I saw the post on PH,it's odd given the fact you did not have the issue on the test drives you had,is there any significant difference in spec ? I assume you did not order power steering plus ?
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Post by Martin on Nov 26, 2020 12:28:54 GMT
Based on other peoples experience, it has to be the tyres at this time of year that's the problem. A new set of PS4S would be about £800 and you'd get a fair bit back for the almost new Pirellis if you sold them, so the cost to change would be worth it.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 26, 2020 14:16:23 GMT
I assume they're not aligning the car as part of the PDI therefore could be as simple as it just being a little bit out of tolerance
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Post by Stuntman on Nov 26, 2020 21:26:29 GMT
I did specifically ask the dealership to give it a good 'fast road' alignment and requested that it was done by the particular technician who is good at it. Unfortunately, said technician was on leave during the week that my car arrived. I wasn't given a printout of the alignment when I click and collected the car. It's something I'll ask them about once I'm actually able to go back into the dealership for the proper full handover that they want to do. The spec of the demonstrator was essentially the same as mine, so I doubt it's to do with the options I've chosen. franki- definitely no Power Steering Plus! I tried it on a 718 two years ago and really didn't like it. I'll be keeping it on the Pirellis until I wear them out. So I'll just have to do a few trackdays next year then  |
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Post by alf on Nov 27, 2020 8:29:51 GMT
" Based on other peoples experience, it has to be the tyres at this time of year that's the problem. " I think this is most likely it. We are at the time of year when a decent summer tyre that still felt OK a few weeks ago, now can feel awful. It had been a mild autumn but now the temperature is lower, the roads seemingly always damp, summer tyres are struggling. |
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 27, 2020 9:16:15 GMT
That was what that Taycan owner wrote on their insurance claim form.
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