2020 challenge: Italy x 2 discussion thread (Sep 6 and 13)

Well, it turned out to be an interesting race..... Leclerc's accident showed that gravel/sand isn't good at all for slowing wayward cars down.
Full marks to Jolyon Palmer who's been noting Gasly's rise in form over this season since his demotion from RB to Toro Rosso, latterly Alpha Tauri

Who at Mercedes should have been monitoring the pit lane entry and should have found out that it was closed following the Haas breakdown, and told Hamilton not to go into the pits?

I don't understand why it needed to be rolled forward towards the pits when there was a gap between the barriers directly behind it that it could easily be moved through. It's not like it was desperately needed back in the Haas garage.

I was wondering if any of the teams will try a revised set up for next week's race to try to gain a bit more top speed. However Leclerc's crash was maybe a sign that Ferrari had already reduced the downforce as far as they dare and barring any accidents or mechanical issues, next week's race could be very similar to the first 20 laps of yesterday's race.

Mugello has a mega-long straight and some fast sweeping turns. I'd assume that the Red Bull will be more competitive here than at flat-out Monza but the high speed nature will give some more favour to the Mercs and the McLarens and the Racing Point. I'd say the McLarens might have a really good weekend but ultimately the Mercs will drive off.

Just adverts about how to buy the service unfortunately.

I presume BTCC still does the jumbled grid thing as well as success ballast although they have 3 races (I assume they've not changed the format in the last couple of years).

Just a controversial point to throw in there, but do the drivers themselves need to get a bit better at overtaking? On the one hand theres complaints that the current cars downforce makes it too difficult for other cars to overtake and then you see Lewis charge up to the back of the pack and promptly overtake all but the top 6 cars. It's not just tyres being newer, he overtook Ocon on lap 51 using 30 lap old medium tyres! Whereas Bottas could barely keep up with the McLarens and got nowhere near Stroll in the Racing Point.

I don't know if you saw Martin Brundle's review of Lewis' fast lap - he was braking from about 200mph, 50 mtrs before the corner. For someone to outbrake him, they would have needed to go to 47 or 48 mtrs before braking which is probably a physical impossibility. Perhaps a halving of the downforce and a return to steel brakes or less sophisticated carbon brakes might allow braking to be at the 100 mtr board leaving a lot more room to send one up the inside and still recover it for the corner.

Alex is right, some drivers are just better at overtaking compared to others. Prior to 2007 overtaking was a rarity. Hamilton made his debut in Melbourne by overtaking Kubica and Alonso around the outside of turn one. In the next race in Malaysia he passed both Ferrari’s in the first few turns. I think Austin 2012 was a great example of Hamilton seizing up his opponent, and waiting to bounce against a car of similar speed. He followed Vettel for most of the race, being faster but couldn’t find a way past. A backmarker hampered Vettel in the esses, allowing Hamilton to get a decent run on the back straight. The key thing, Hamilton was there when something went wrong. I couldn’t imagine Bottas pulling that off.
 
It was the same story with Verstappen. Max made some errors initially, but when he came into the sport he did overtaking that was exciting and sometimes a bit unconventional.

DRS is necessary with these cars, otherwise there would be virtually no overtaking. I dislike DRS, but another way to view it, is that it merely gives the drivers something back that they lose on corner exit. Remember when DRS malfunctioned for a brief period in Abu Dhabi last year? There was no overtaking at all.

I would look at removing the wings completely. Not sure why wings are needed. In particular, the front wings have progressively become more expensive, uglier, shatter to pieces at the tinniest contact and contribute hugely to the turbulence seen today. Why would we want a reverse grid, with these current cars? Sort out the cars, and that will solve a lot of issues. If the 2022 package performs as expected, reverse grids won’t be needed. I firmly believe that qualifying should be about the drivers trying to go as fast as possible, and diluting that spoils the essence of F1.

There is nothing wrong in making everyone spend the same money, because the opportunity will be the same for everyone. Some will use their resources wisely, some won’t, and those who don’t won’t be competitive. But hasn’t that been the case since the beginning? There has to be a loser, but the difference being, they will be operating on a more level playing field. Reverse grids are something different, it’s not for F1.

Whatever powertrain comes next, it absolutely needs restricting in terms of financial spend and R&D. It can’t be a free-for-all like the current engine, because that has allowed the current situation. Jean Todt had the view that the powertrain had to be road relevance at any cost. Look at WEC, the FIA is the regulator of that, and currently there is only one LMP1-H car competing. WTCC was going to fall apart if it hadn’t introduced TCR cars at the last moment. Todt wants WRC to go hybrid, but what WRC actually needs is more cars and manufacturers involved in the first place. For me, WRC needs a GT3-formula where most hatchback manufacturers want to enter, because it’s possible to gain money from selling and maintaining cars to privateers. WRC would have more cars, more brand diversity, better opportunities for drivers. The big issues are not being looked at.

I'm with Tim. The wings and aero effect are what's causing most of the issues but it was always the case. The modern aero input is worse than it ever was and that is highlighted by the need for DRS to allow cars to break the aero problem. The braking issue is also one to consider as braking at the 50m board from 300kph is insane. Basically F1 cars have become single-lap-optimised as opposed to racing-optimised.

Just a thought about the first corner today, how long before someone bins it up the inside (Or outside, the Red Bulls love that) and causes a red flag incident?

I couldn't help thinking that Bottas was in some part to blame for the first red flag event. Ultimately the blame will be apportioned to Giovanazzi for putting his foot down too early but I've never seen the lead cars bunched up along the pit straight like that before and it always looked like it was asking for trouble.

Spot on BB. Having watched the Sat GP2 race it was clear that if you tried to get away before the start finish you'd be swamped by the pack by turn 1. Bottas did his homework and was spot on with what he did. Trouble is as soon as someone shots off in the midpack and then breaks once they realise they f'd up, the guys at the back are only ever going to pile into them.

Felt sorry for Russell, would have been great to see him in the points. I do hope this guy gets a decent seat as theres a lot of talent being wasted in the Williams.

That or suspension failure.  The replays I have seen so far don't make it easy to determine, but it was a failure of something on the car and not a driving error.