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Post by garry on Jul 1, 2020 11:15:00 GMT
I went to Southport on Saturday to pick up a couple of bits from an art shop there. Like many provincial towns, Southport has been struggling for a while, but OMG - there is virtually nothing left on the main shopping street. We’re talking of a couple of cafes and the odd clothes shop. Plenty of shop owners had clearly emptied what they could in terms of fixtures and fittings and weren’t coming back And it’s a vicious circle for those left - passing trade will dry up and they’ll get dragged under one by one. For the most part I’m a person who tries to find a way through, but looking around I was stumped. Beyond blowing the whole place up and claiming on the insurance I’ve got no idea how they’ll rescue places like this. So what happens to the high street? It’s been dying for years, but covid has done the equivalent of smack it over the head with a shovel and put it out of its misery. Maybe it will be something that’s consigned to history? Maybe it can be reinvented by focusing on products and services and services that can’t be supported by an online model? I don’t know, but it looks bad.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jul 1, 2020 11:57:02 GMT
Similar to Bob' suggestion on the other thread, I think we are now looking at a significant repurposing of our town centres. A few boutique shops and cafes, with the rest turned over to a work/live space. Affordable housing within walking or cycling distance from places of work.
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Post by LandieMark on Jul 1, 2020 11:58:48 GMT
I have no idea, and it is a major concern of mine to be honest. Mobile phones, takeaways and charity shops seem to be the order of the day as far as retail goes and everything else is a bar or cafe. I am lucky in that I have two hairdressers, two bars and a nail bar in addition to a charity shop and an antiques shop.The charity shop doesn't pay rent, but it does pay service charges and avoids me paying the rates and the antique shop is on a peppercorn as it does my security to save on hiring an external company.
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Post by LandieMark on Jul 1, 2020 11:59:38 GMT
Similar to Bob' suggestion on the other thread, I think we are now looking at a significant repurposing of our town centres. A few boutique shops and cafes, with the rest turned over to a work/live space. Affordable housing within walking or cycling distance from places of work. Yes, the upper floors of ours would be ripe for conversion. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 1, 2020 14:11:47 GMT
Here in Farnham the council have been desperately trying to turn the high street into the same as every other in the UK. We used to have plenty of independents but these have been pushed out by high rents and higher rates and the larger stores that do come in are rather fickle and move in and out as the rents dictate.
We've been fighting the development of a new retail park just off the high street with cinema, M&S foods and the usual crappy chain restaurants, the green light was given last year and having flattened a good area of parkland the work has now ground to a halt. Its so bloody irritating and a project was doomed to failure from the start. Within a 15 mile radius we have, Alderhot, Guildford, Camberley, Basingstoke and Farnborough who all have the same leisure park set ups and the same shops. Why anyone would want to come to Farnham as a shopper with our terrible congestion is beyond me with Guildford only a couple of miles up the road.
We'll be left with Pubs and Restaurants (hopefully more independents after this virus) and hairdressers. We have a huge number of estate agents for a small town, charity shops and coffee shops.
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 1, 2020 15:59:21 GMT
Within a 15 mile radius we have, Aldershot, Guildford, Camberley, Basingstoke and Farnborough who all have the same leisure park set ups and the same shops. Why anyone would want to come to Farnham as a shopper with our terrible congestion is beyond me with Guildford only a couple of miles up the road. Strange; All of the above with the possible exception of Aldershot (whose town centre is all-but dead) suffer from plenty of traffic congestion too. I like Farnham as a place to visit, the various styles of architecture in the town centre fascinates me.... a real mix of old and new, but the actual selection of shops and variety of goods for sale doesn't do much for me |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 17:28:27 GMT
It's exactly what the elite globalists want. They want us all to be mixed race, coffee coloured mongrels with no cultural heritage to be sat at home, believing everything they're feeding our mostly jelly-like brains via our TV and phone screens and doing all our shopping via online hyperstores owned by them. People like George Soros and Jeff Bezos don't give a flying fuck about the high street, they just need us attached to the Matrix for as many hours a day as possible.
I think I've had too much time on my hands!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 1, 2020 19:20:30 GMT
It's exactly what the elite globalists want. They want us all to be mixed race, coffee coloured mongrels with no cultural heritage to be sat at home, believing everything they're feeding our mostly jelly-like brains via our TV and phone screens and doing all our shopping via online hyperstores owned by them. People like George Soros and Jeff Bezos don't give a flying fuck about the high street, they just need us attached to the Matrix for as many hours a day as possible. I think I've had too much time on my hands! I see ASDA has delivered the tinfoil! |
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 1, 2020 19:45:07 GMT
Borough councils seem to struggle to get business rates from shops. Seems they much prefer town centres to be converted into flats so that people live there and pay council tax, increasing the tax take. It's quite bizarre IMHO, almost as if local authorities want town centre shops to go away, or else they just don't care so long as they increase the amount of tax they collect
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 19:55:00 GMT
It's exactly what the elite globalists want. They want us all to be mixed race, coffee coloured mongrels with no cultural heritage to be sat at home, believing everything they're feeding our mostly jelly-like brains via our TV and phone screens and doing all our shopping via online hyperstores owned by them. People like George Soros and Jeff Bezos don't give a flying fuck about the high street, they just need us attached to the Matrix for as many hours a day as possible. I think I've had too much time on my hands! I see ASDA has delivered the tinfoil! Anyone know how to make a hat?  Years ago these "theorists" were confined to ranting on milk crates while no one listened but the interwebs have given them a platform much wider reaching than that old crate. I love reading them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 22:24:09 GMT
I believe the "paper boat/yacht Origami style" is quite popular but much prefer the "Starman" effect with tinted perspex visor but that's personal.
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Post by PG on Jul 2, 2020 13:30:18 GMT
.. they just need us attached to the Matrix for as many hours a day as possible... It may be closer than we realise. I had not heard about this company until a friend mentioned it last week, but Neuralink (founded by Elon Musk) are working on brain-machine interfaces. "Neuralink Corporation is an American neurotechnology company founded by Elon Musk and others, developing implantable brain–machine interfaces (BMIs). The company's headquarters are in San Francisco;[7] it was started in 2016 and was first publicly reported in March 2017.[1][2]
According to Bloomberg, since its founding, the company has hired several high-profile neuroscientists from various universities.[8] By July 2019, it had received $158 million in funding (of which $100 million was from Musk) and was employing a staff of 90 employees.[6] At that time, Neuralink announced that it was working on a "sewing machine-like" device capable of implanting very thin (4 to 6 μm in width[9]) threads into the brain, demonstrated a system that read information from a lab rat via 1,500 electrodes and anticipated to start experiments with humans in 2020.........Musk explained that the long-term goal is to achieve "symbiosis with artificial intelligence",which Musk perceives as an existential threat to humanity if it goes unchecked."en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeuralinkBetter keep that tinfoil handy. |
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Post by PG on Jul 2, 2020 13:44:59 GMT
But re the OP, I think the death of the high street (as we have known it) is due to several factors that are all colliding at the same time. Yes, online has a big part to play. Out of town v high street is another. Penal tax systems. The complete lack of awareness of the fact that people need to get there and park is another (but then don't want to get run over as they visit).
But also proximity is important and that hardly ever gets mentioned. In the Farnham v Guildford comment above, now that transport is taken for granted if there are several towns within short distances of each other, there is no way that they can all support vibrant town centres any more. There's just not enough business. Whereas where we are, there is more space between towns so shops stand more of a chance, but the other factors are all doing the job pretty well anyway.
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Post by Martin on Jul 2, 2020 13:49:10 GMT
But re the OP, I think the death of the high street (as we have known it) is due to several factors that are all colliding at the same time. Yes, online has a big part to play. Out of town v high street is another. Penal tax systems. The complete lack of awareness of the fact that people need to get there and park is another (but then don't want to get run over as they visit). But also proximity is important and that hardly ever gets mentioned. In the Farnham v Guildford comment above, now that transport is taken for granted if there are several towns within short distances of each other, there is no way that they can all support vibrant town centres any more. There's just not enough business. Whereas where we are, there is more space between towns so shops stand more of a chance, but the other factors are all doing the job pretty well anyway. When the approval was given for a fairly large out of town shopping / leisure a couple of miles from where I live, the local town council said it would be great for the local area as it would bring more people into the town to visit the independent shops. Errrrr, I bet it has made zero difference. Not all bad though, we've now got another lake to walk around, a brand new cinema and don't have to travel far when we need a shop. Even better than all that, it had a really positive impact on local house prices when it opened! |
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Post by Alex on Jul 2, 2020 22:00:07 GMT
One of the biggest problems with high street shopping is the hassle that comes from getting there and then paying for parking (which always seems to cost more each time you go) and if you got kids with you, having to find somewhere for drinks/snacks/toilet. Parking charges also put you off popping in to just one shop. A lot of town centres charge for a minimum of 2hours for at least £2. Fine if you've got a few bits to get but annoying when you're just passing.
Where they're really suffering is the lack of customers for the coffee shops from office workers who are all now working from home. The centre of London is still deathly quiet and you could easily be mistaken for thinking it's a sunday morning when it's actually a midweek lunchtime. A lot of businesses aren't planning to fully populate their offices until early 2021. The big chains like Pret and Costa were booming before Covid but will struggle to get to anywhere near their previous level of turnover this year.
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 2, 2020 22:55:31 GMT
Our "town" car park is free for 2 hours. You have to get a ticket and you can't return for 4 hours after your free two unless you pay but it means that the high street gets proper use, plus Waitrose. That said if we go there we walk.
It's kind of different in a London dormitory suburb: there's no out of town but there are larger towns with all that big-shop stuff. Since we left Wimbledon 8 years ago the shops there have been through the rounds and the place that is suffering the most is Centre Court, the mall. People would rather schlep along the Broadway or go up to the village then hang out in an identikit shopping mall. Kingston is the opposite with the Bentalls centre still dominating although the Market is rammed on Saturdays (pre-COVID time) with food stalls and the river front is preferred for eating.
Closer to home Central Road (as our high street is called) has the usual mix of chain coffee shops, charity shops, Pizza joints, Nandos etc. but still has a butcher, greengrocer (both of whom have thrived in the pandemic), a big Carpet showroom (family owned - and yes we used it for our flooring and carpets), craft shop, family owned take aways, a soft play-restaurant that's rammed most days, a British Legion, a tailor, a cycle shop, camera shop, sewing machine shop, florist, houseware shop...... in fact it's like it was in the 70s, 80s, 90 and 00s. The most recent shop to close was the police office - the one in Ewell closed about 20 years ago. But we still have beat bobbies patrolling. In fact we live in some kind of modern history bubble.
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Post by garry on Jul 3, 2020 5:44:22 GMT
One of the biggest problems with high street shopping is the hassle that comes from getting there and then paying for parking (which always seems to cost more each time you go) and if you got kids with you, having to find somewhere for drinks/snacks/toilet. Parking charges also put you off popping in to just one shop. A lot of town centres charge for a minimum of 2hours for at least £2. Fine if you've got a few bits to get but annoying when you're just passing. Where they're really suffering is the lack of customers for the coffee shops from office workers who are all now working from home. The centre of London is still deathly quiet and you could easily be mistaken for thinking it's a sunday morning when it's actually a midweek lunchtime. A lot of businesses aren't planning to fully populate their offices until early 2021. The big chains like Pret and Costa were booming before Covid but will struggle to get to anywhere near their previous level of turnover this year. Forgot to mention that on my southport trip, the parking nazis were out in force. The town was dead and I saw five cars with parking tickets on them. |
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 3, 2020 7:42:31 GMT
Closer to home Central Road (as our high street is called) has the usual mix of chain coffee shops, charity shops, Pizza joints, Nandos etc. but still has a butcher, greengrocer (both of whom have thrived in the pandemic), a big Carpet showroom (family owned - and yes we used it for our flooring and carpets), craft shop, family owned take aways, a soft play-restaurant that's rammed most days, a British Legion, a tailor, a cycle shop, camera shop, sewing machine shop, florist, houseware shop...... in fact it's like it was in the 70s, 80s, 90 and 00s. The most recent shop to close was the police office - the one in Ewell closed about 20 years ago. But we still have beat bobbies patrolling. In fact we live in some kind of modern history bubble. Must be some sort of history bubble if you still have a camera shop ! Will have to check that out (if only on the internet....) |
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Post by Tim on Jul 3, 2020 8:49:30 GMT
I heard from a senior bod at Standard Life that they are thinking of downsizing or closing their large office in Morrison Street, central Edinburgh simply because the working from home has been so effective they've realised there's a hefty cost saving to be made on office rentals.
The knock-on is that those people - lets say it's 1,000 - won't be going into central Edinburgh every day so the coffee shops and sandwich places are going to suffer and probably restaurants too so when things do re-open the weekday income for them is likely to be significantly lower.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jul 3, 2020 8:49:47 GMT
Our local small market town is something of a gem, with proper butcher, greengrocer, bakery and fish shop, as well as an outstanding farm shop / deli. We also have one of those old-fashioned electrical shops with toasters next to washing machines in the front window. The sort of place where they keep random, long-since extinct lightbulbs in little wooden drawers behind the counter. The gentleman's outfitter does a fine range of country tweeds, but is also the place to go to for children's shoes. All very well supported by the locals, it looks set to thrive.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 3, 2020 9:18:20 GMT
Our local small market town is something of a gem, with proper butcher, greengrocer, bakery and fish shop, as well as an outstanding farm shop / deli. We also have one of those old-fashioned electrical shops with toasters next to washing machines in the front window. The sort of place where they keep random, long-since extinct lightbulbs in little wooden drawers behind the counter. The gentleman's outfitter does a fine range of country tweeds, but is also the place to go to for children's shoes. All very well supported by the locals, it looks set to thrive. What about fork handles? |
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Post by Roadrunner on Jul 3, 2020 9:21:14 GMT
Our local small market town is something of a gem, with proper butcher, greengrocer, bakery and fish shop, as well as an outstanding farm shop / deli. We also have one of those old-fashioned electrical shops with toasters next to washing machines in the front window. The sort of place where they keep random, long-since extinct lightbulbs in little wooden drawers behind the counter. The gentleman's outfitter does a fine range of country tweeds, but is also the place to go to for children's shoes. All very well supported by the locals, it looks set to thrive. What about fork handles? Yes. We have a proper hardware shop as well. |
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Post by Roadrunner on Jul 3, 2020 9:24:04 GMT
Of course, the best shop in the world is Bunner's in Montgomery.  |
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 3, 2020 10:17:46 GMT
Our hardware shop is owned and managed by a Slovak mum who married a (sadly deceased) Turk - they had just opened up their dream restaurant and he was diagnosed with lung cancer. She couldn't hack having the restaurant without her man so sold it to another Turkish family and concentrated on the hardware shop. The Turkish community really rallied around her (she has 2 sons) which is great. Our Slovak/Czech and Turkish communities are pretty large and keep the area busy and friendly plus most of them are Arsenal fans - so all positives.
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