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Post by PG on Feb 18, 2020 17:57:40 GMT
It's like a race where every time the OEM's lumber along enough to catch up a bit, Musk just scampers off into the distance again. Mind you, that'll be 390 NCAP, not WLTP. But even so, it's still very impressive.
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Post by johnc on Feb 18, 2020 18:21:09 GMT
My Taycan cancelling client picks up his new Model S with the biggest battery in just over 3 weeks. That is an order to delivery time of about 6 weeks.
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Post by Martin on Feb 18, 2020 20:20:14 GMT
It's like a race where every time the OEM's lumber along enough to catch up a bit, Musk just scampers off into the distance again. Mind you, that'll be 390 NCAP, not WLTP. But even so, it's still very impressive. They do. Just looked on their website, 379 WLTP mile range for the ‘long range version’. Along with their supercharger network, which they’ve included for free again, that’s a lot more viable as a daily now. |
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Post by johnc on Feb 19, 2020 8:17:03 GMT
I was reading an article in EVO this month about new biofuels which would allow ICE cars to continue with massively reduced emissions. As they say necessity is the mother of invention.
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Post by LandieMark on Feb 19, 2020 8:21:38 GMT
They had better develop some additives to stop the biogrowth then. Diesel in particular is a pain even with the small percentages of biodiesel being used. Fuel filters don't last long these days. A friend of mine who was doing an awful lot of miles was changing his every three months!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 19, 2020 8:34:31 GMT
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Post by Tim on Feb 19, 2020 9:07:57 GMT
I know we've been criticising BMW (in particular) for its questionable design direction but with the increased number of Tesla Model 3s on the road I find I have no desire at all to look at their cars, they're just an amorphous blob, like a Sierra for the 2020s.
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Post by PG on Feb 19, 2020 9:56:44 GMT
I was reading an article in EVO this month about new biofuels which would allow ICE cars to continue with massively reduced emissions. As they say necessity is the mother of invention. Despite not being a fossil fuel, biofuels seem to get the eco-warriors into almost as big a lather as petrol and diesel. Because it is taking land that could be used to grow all the organic vegetables (and nothing else) they want us all to eat. Whereas if the climate is what they really care about, biofuels should be welcomed. Which just goes to show that it is all about control, not the environment. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 19, 2020 10:04:58 GMT
I know we've been criticising BMW (in particular) for its questionable design direction but with the increased number of Tesla Model 3s on the road I find I have no desire at all to look at their cars, they're just an amorphous blob, like a Sierra for the 2020s. Its a shame that given the packaging advantages of electric cars that designers haven't been allowed to go far more creative. Seeing as Tesla also has no design language that it must hold true it does seem lazy or more likely extremely safe to just bring a generic 3 box design. Yes he Model X has funky doors but so what. |
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Post by johnc on Feb 19, 2020 10:06:35 GMT
I know we've been criticising BMW (in particular) for its questionable design direction but with the increased number of Tesla Model 3s on the road I find I have no desire at all to look at their cars, they're just an amorphous blob, like a Sierra for the 2020s. Every time I see a Tesla 3 I find another line or angle to despise: it really isn't an attractive car at all. The Tesla S though is a pretty well proportioned car. However if their wedge shaped pickup is an example of their future design direction I think they are on the wrong road. |
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Post by Tim on Feb 19, 2020 11:28:01 GMT
All of the Model 3s appear to be on pretty horrible wheels.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 21, 2020 13:38:59 GMT
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Post by johnc on Feb 21, 2020 18:25:34 GMT
Since it took me an hour and a half to travel 7 miles from the city centre this afternoon, that car might be an improvement. |
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Post by johnc on Feb 25, 2020 8:19:03 GMT
I came across this video (not too long) and it makes a great case for only buying a Tesla!!!
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Post by Martin on Feb 25, 2020 8:38:25 GMT
Time to buy a V12!
Not quite right though, as the price he’s quoted is for PAYG if you own a car that’s not from the consortium that owns the network. For example, the 79c he quotes drops to 29c if you own an EQC, up to 33ct for a Taycan.
Tesla have put free Supercharging back on for the new longer range Model S though, which added to the better network does give them a clear lead.
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Post by Tim on Jul 2, 2020 14:02:44 GMT
Tesla now worth more than Toyota! www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53257933I can understand what people have said about Tesla having patents, etc but I think Toyota are on the same path but with their own stuff plus make cars to cover a whole lot of additional markets too. |
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Post by PG on Jul 3, 2020 12:32:34 GMT
In the absence of any historically sensible figures, Tesla is still being valued as a sexy technology stock that also makes cars. It's all about the financial sunlit uplands that will be there at some point. Toyota, with a long history of financial results, is perceived as a dull auto manufacturer that has made a few interesting technical advancements.
There was an interesting comment from one of the contributors to Autocar last week, which said that his kids get more excited when he brings a Tesla home than if he brings home any supercar.
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Post by michael on Jul 6, 2020 13:59:56 GMT
I've just completed a 300 mile round trip to the Wirral and seen loads of Teslas. Mainly 3's but a few S and X too. I didn't notice a single other electric car on the entire journey.
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Post by PG on Jul 25, 2020 12:35:15 GMT
I read an article yesterday that, while potentially tongue in cheek, did make some very interesting points about EV company valuations v established manufacturers, resulting in what they described as the potential for "EV arbitrage".
A very brief summary is that as publicly quoted EV manufacturers (seen by investors as just as much tech stocks and anything else) trade on such bonkers multiples (not just Tesla, but also Nikola Motors who have become another sex-appeal EV related stock used as the example), the smart money should do the following. Approach PSA, Nissan, Renault, Ford, BMW, VW or Merc and offer to buy the whole company for a silly amount of money. Like 3 or 4 times their current market worth. Then carve out the EV portion as a standalone quoted company, which will immediately be worth probably more than the whole company was worth just before you did that. You can leave all the pension liabilities, expensive wage contracts and boring ICE R&D and other legacy shit in the now "run off ICE company" that you asset strip and cash-milk to get your original cash back. Et voila.
At first sight you think, no f^^ing way, that's just silly. But when you think about it maybe that's what Geeley are effectively trying to do with Polestar and VW with the new "ID" branding. We all looked at the Polestars or ID's as car lovers and said "should be Volvos" or "why not make it an e-Golf" (I know I have). But setting up a separate brand means that you can float if off if you wanted to with none of the residual ICE crap to bog it down. There's also press comment about Jag becoming an "EV only brand" to balance out Land Rover's ICE emissions, but valuations are also maybe part of that.
OK, long-run, valuations of EV company's will either have to come down to ICE levels, or the whole transport industry is going to be worth way more than it is now. But getting in early means that you have a huge advantage as the money piles in and you reap a big pay day.
Right, I'm just off to borrow some money and then see if Tata will sell me JLR. If they won't I'll just buy Nissan or PSA.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 12:43:06 GMT
Don't pay more than 50p and a half chewed gobstopper.
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Post by alf on Jul 27, 2020 11:20:38 GMT
A very good point, PG - I have seen exactly that with tech companies. Someone focused on a sexy new area gets a huge valuation when other bigger companies with a variety of business areas are valued lower, despite having a division doing the sexy new thing even better then the newcomer. Madness.
EV';s are a huge growth area but its just a car at the end of the day. Only a spectacular patented and uncopied (unlikely!) breakthrough in batteries would give anyone a big advantage. I have more faith in established car companies' ability to make and support good product than newcomers....
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Post by rodge on Jul 28, 2020 4:30:23 GMT
The thing to remember about Tesla is that as a company, it is uniquely situated where the money is.
It’s the only real car company in the most tech savvy part of the wealthiest state in America and it is exceptionally good at doing things extremely well.
When you drive in the Bay Area or even anywhere in California, they are everywhere. They’re as common as Toyota’s and the state government has facilitated them to get this big as quickly as they have.
They’ve also got a leader who pushes his employees harder than anyone I’ve encountered. As a result, they have the best minds from the best universities who work phenomenally hard for 2-5 years, get incredible experience and then move on to a job they can sustain, from a quality of life perspective.
Of course the downside of this is no longevity of employees in the company which is not good for long term stability.
They’ve not only broken ground in China and Germany, but they are already building the production lines in California to get them up and running faster than people believe possible.
As a product, they aren’t bad. I’m still not a convert of the ev brigade, I like internal combustion engines too much for that- but I do see why so many people are buying them. Not sure about the UK but they have showrooms in all the swanky areas of the big cities here so you can pop into Gucci and then Tesla before dropping in somewhere for your afternoon Chablis.
Tesla as a company is also looking to do all repairs in house, removing the independent mechanics (should that be electrochanics?) and fully automating the process. Great idea from the company point of view for learning from accidents, improving resale values (can make the car like new again if desired) and monitoring the quality of repairs.
I remember in the 90’s seeing Kia bringing out the Pride, which was a horrendous thing. Now, Kia is a mainstream manufacturer. Tesla is the same, only doing it with a more desirable product.
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Post by PG on Jul 28, 2020 7:23:10 GMT
I have seen exactly that with tech companies. Someone focused on a sexy new area gets a huge valuation when other bigger companies with a variety of business areas are valued lower, despite having a division doing the sexy new thing even better then the newcomer. Madness. I've seen that too. And whilst the sexy division of the big company may well do the new thing better than a start up / specialist, they're usually constrained eventually by the by all the policies that a big company has and the inertia that comes with it. Plus the need to balance the established and new divisions in financial symbiosis. That limits the valuation. Tesla announced a 3 series EV rival - the model 3 and got a huge waiting list. Their issue was then production and delivery. Great news for the company. If BMW announced a 3 series EV rival and everyone stopped buying ICE 3 series because of it and said "that's alright we'll wait 12 months for our 3-ev" they'd have nothing to celebrate as they'd have all that expensive manufacturing plant built for ICE sat idle. |
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