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Post by Martin on Feb 18, 2019 19:56:10 GMT
BBC news reporting that Honda will be announcing the closure of the Swindon factory in 2021/2022. Over 3,000 jobs.
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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 18, 2019 20:05:03 GMT
FFS.
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Post by PG on Feb 18, 2019 20:15:38 GMT
www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/honda-could-announce-swindon-factory-closure-tomorrowLikely to be announced tomorrow it seems. Honda have not commented, yet.. The closure is rumoured to be in three years time, when the Civic would be due for a facelift / re-engineer. It is a real tragedy, but the plant has been operating at below capacity for years. I had not realised that the Jazz and CRV are not built there any more. It is just Civic five doors and the last version of that has not exactly been a roaring success. According to the press, Honda are also closing their plant in Turkey. This means that Honda will source all European sales direct from Japan. Just like Nissan have announced with the X-Trail. I guess the new EU / Japan trade deal - which removes the current 10% tariff on Japanese built cars imported to the EU - means that they (and others) can concentrate all their production in Japan and get economies of scale plus protect Japanese jobs. After all they are a Japanese company.
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 18, 2019 21:20:07 GMT
A bit of a surprise but IMHO Honda lost their way years ago. Their styling is dreadful and the range of models they make is .... well, who are they trying to appeal to as new car buyers? When I bought my Honda in 1985 the average age of a new Honda buyer was somewhere in their 70's, and it's not got much lower, I believe.
Still, it will be a sad day for UK Manufacturing if they close, and the impact on Swindon and the surrounding area will be huge. There's a massive number of local suppliers and associated companies that will be hit.
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Post by Alex on Feb 18, 2019 21:22:26 GMT
Bit of a shock but the more you think about it the more it makes sense. UK and EU buyers just haven’t been buying enough Civics but there are plenty of other markets that do. Now the new trade deal has removed the main benefit of having a plant in the EU (a situation exacerbated by the UK being weeks away from leaving the EU with no trade deal!) and one wonders how long before Toyota follow suit.
This will not just be felt by their 3000 employees, commentary on the radio suggested it could see 10000 job losses when you account for local suppliers and service providers such as maintenance, catering and cleaning etc.
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Post by Boxer6 on Feb 18, 2019 22:01:57 GMT
Bit of a shock but the more you think about it the more it makes sense. UK and EU buyers just haven’t been buying enough Civics but there are plenty of other markets that do. Now the new trade deal has removed the main benefit of having a plant in the EU (a situation exacerbated by the UK being weeks away from leaving the EU with no trade deal!) and one wonders how long before Toyota follow suit. This will not just be felt by their 3000 employees, commentary on the radio suggested it could see 10000 job losses when you account for local suppliers and service providers such as maintenance, catering and cleaning etc. But, didn't they tell us this wouldn't happen? Or, was that (/Rob Bryden impression on). . . . a LIE?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 9:39:05 GMT
I do wonder if this is part of a deal with the eu, as part of the agreement with Honda to get imports into the eu without a tarif post brexit. I would not put is past the eu bleaders to do that with their current and past conduct.
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Post by Martin on Feb 19, 2019 9:40:53 GMT
Isn’t is partly because we’ve agreed a tariff free deal (both ways) with Japan?
Confirmed this morning, Factory will close in 2021.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 10:10:03 GMT
I do wonder if this is part of a deal with the eu, as part of the agreement with Honda to get imports into the eu without a tarif post brexit. I would not put is past the eu bleaders to do that with their current and past conduct. Did you know that Elvis is still alive?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 11:15:22 GMT
Living in the Hamptons apparently, surviving on peanut butter and banana sandwiches, fried, DEEP fried. Way to go way on down.......
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 19, 2019 11:56:59 GMT
To be honest I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner. The plant has been at 50% production for ages and each Civic they produce seems to capture the imagination of the market less and less. Astra production at Ellsemere Port to close next.
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Post by Tim on Feb 19, 2019 13:20:10 GMT
Bit of a shock but the more you think about it the more it makes sense. UK and EU buyers just haven’t been buying enough Civics but there are plenty of other markets that do. Now the new trade deal has removed the main benefit of having a plant in the EU (a situation exacerbated by the UK being weeks away from leaving the EU with no trade deal!) and one wonders how long before Toyota follow suit. This will not just be felt by their 3000 employees, commentary on the radio suggested it could see 10000 job losses when you account for local suppliers and service providers such as maintenance, catering and cleaning etc. But, didn't they tell us this wouldn't happen? Or, was that (/Rob Bryden impression on). . . . a LIE? They interviewed the UK chief bod on the radio this morning and quoted some of the presentation from 2017 that did say they were committed to UK. However, he pointed out that that the market has changed significantly since then with, for example, the freefall of diesel sales and a sudden increase in the desire - from consumers and legislators - for electric. They're simply going to focus production closer to their main markets and the EU/UK isn't one of those.
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Post by johnc on Feb 19, 2019 14:14:08 GMT
They're simply going to focus production closer to their main markets and the EU/UK isn't one of those. The simple answer to that one is that they need to start to make the cars people want again - Integra R, decent looking civic, etc etc
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Post by PG on Feb 20, 2019 7:57:05 GMT
They're simply going to focus production closer to their main markets and the EU/UK isn't one of those. The simple answer to that one is that they need to start to make the cars people want again - Integra R, decent looking civic, etc etc Indeed this. Listened to Jeremy Vine yesterday and instead of talking about all the the issues around this closure, it just descended into a ramain v leave shout fest. Not once did he ask the people calling in if they drove a Honda Civic, or even a Honda and if not why not. If Honda had made cars that people wanted to buy and were selling 100k Civics a year in the UK, it might not want to close its factory here. It reminded me of people who never use their local pub kicking off when it closes. 2018 sales data makes interesting reading. VAG sold over 400k cars in the UK in 2018 without building a single one here. www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig_uk_2018
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 20, 2019 8:08:03 GMT
^ The link doesn't work for those of us without an account !
I've been moaning for years at Honda dealers that they don't make the cars I would buy any more but the info has fallen on deaf ears. When you think that not so long ago, the Civic and Accord were prime contenders for anyone wanting to buy a medium or large sized car and now the Accord is not sold in the UK and the Civic is almost a niche model due to its styling.......
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Post by michael on Feb 20, 2019 9:01:34 GMT
When you think that not so long ago, the Civic and Accord were prime contenders ... I'm not sure that's ever been true. When the Accord was also sold as a Rover 600 the Rover outsold it something like five to one.
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Post by Tim on Feb 20, 2019 9:52:34 GMT
I'd say that in this country at least Honda have also fallen foul of the obsession with 'brand' and their lack of a German badge (obviously) has harmed them. You can't tell me that a basic, bland Merc A Class in white is any better than the equivalent Civic yet housing estates are full of Mercs.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 20, 2019 10:18:59 GMT
I'm fairly positive that new companies will come in to replace Honda in Swindon and take advantage of the skilled workforce and incentives that will be offered. They won't be of the same size as Honda (unless someone like Tesla comes in and takes over the plant) but there's better strength in industrial diversity rather than having all your eggs in one basket.
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 20, 2019 10:37:37 GMT
..... (unless someone like Tesla comes in and takes over the plant) ..... At the very least UK PLC should be pitching at Tesla for one of its "Gigafactories" for batteries to be based in Swindon, if not one of its car plants - maybe the one to serve the world with right-hand drive Teslas ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 10:39:32 GMT
When it comes to popular car types, SUVs, crossovers and family hatchbacks the Honda range doesn't cut the mustard. The Civic gets odder looking with every generation and the CRV is just a bit crap. They were late to the diesel party and now that's on the back foot and everyone wants an electric or petrol car they're floundering.
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Post by Ben on Feb 21, 2019 6:50:17 GMT
I think there are many parts to this, and it would be too simplistic to point to any one single reason.
Honda have obviously never been huge in Europe. The fact that they're also closing down the Turkey plant probably indicates that they think it's wiser to consolidate their operations to areas where it matters for them (Asia and North America).
I don't think product alone is a cause. These things are always subjective, and Honda are a forward looking company (they were second after Toyota to offer mainstream hybrids, but scaled back for some reason). They will have the capability to catch up. Whether it will be in Europe is another matter, but the company as a whole will be fine.
But Brexit is definitely a factor in play, if exports are in the equation. Apparently a vast majority of Swindon production is exported, and if that is going to be disrupted because of whatever ends up happening at the end of March, then obviously they will have to make a decision that is best for the company. It's not the sole reason for closing of course, but it is definitely a reason.
I'm seeing quite a few parallels with Ford actually. Both companies have generally decent products, but are slow in keeping up with trends (Ford has no EVs too by the way). They now have to make (or have made) tough and unpopular decisions in order to deal with this new world order of rapid change and instability that has upended things greatly for them.
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Post by Alex on Feb 21, 2019 9:30:19 GMT
When it comes to popular car types, SUVs, crossovers and family hatchbacks the Honda range doesn't cut the mustard. The Civic gets odder looking with every generation and the CRV is just a bit crap. They were late to the diesel party and now that's on the back foot and everyone wants an electric or petrol car they're floundering. Well it’s quite an oversight from a company who, with the original Insight, were pioneers of the Hybrid car. Look at how Toyota have invested in their hybrid power train so that it now underpins most of the Auris and RAV4 sold and has seen CH-R sales rocket (and that’s a car that makes the Civic look tame yet sells exceedingly well). Honda have put hybrid on the back burner whilst they invested in D-TEC Diesel engines and hydrogen fuel cells which are some way from full scale production.
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Post by Sav on Feb 23, 2019 11:09:41 GMT
As Bob says, it’s surprising that the Swindon factory wasn’t shut sooner. In the grand scheme of things, the European market accounts for such a tiny proportion of Honda’s global sales, and it’s got even smaller since the recession. Maybe if Honda had their own Qashqai, which sold excellently across Europe, it might have kept the Swindon plant going for longer.
Not to the same extent, but Toyota face a similar situation in Europe. For them, the European market is very small. Take the new Corolla; US and Asian sales of it will dwarf European sales. The Rav4 is one America’s best-selling SUV’s, whereas in Europe it isn’t anywhere close to being the best-selling SUV. The new saloon that Toyota will sell in Europe will be imported, its tricky to make a case for the Derbyshire plant. When the current Corolla comes up for replacement, I fear they will move production elsewhere. especially now that Toyota can import cars into EU markets tariff-free.
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Post by Ben on Feb 23, 2019 12:29:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 8:51:54 GMT
When it comes to popular car types, SUVs, crossovers and family hatchbacks the Honda range doesn't cut the mustard. The Civic gets odder looking with every generation and the CRV is just a bit crap. They were late to the diesel party and now that's on the back foot and everyone wants an electric or petrol car they're floundering. CRV one of the best sellers in the USA and regularly wins mag tests. I think the UK is too badge obsessed. Having done some recent trading, I can tell you that I'd prefer to sell anything Japanese over German, German stuff has a lot more inherent faults nowadays that can come back to bit you (timing chain breakages, etc), there are quite a few BMW/Audi models on the "don't ever touch" list.
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Post by Boxer6 on Mar 16, 2019 12:06:46 GMT
When it comes to popular car types, SUVs, crossovers and family hatchbacks the Honda range doesn't cut the mustard. The Civic gets odder looking with every generation and the CRV is just a bit crap. They were late to the diesel party and now that's on the back foot and everyone wants an electric or petrol car they're floundering. CRV one of the best sellers in the USA and regularly wins mag tests. I think the UK is too badge obsessed. Having done some recent trading, I can tell you that I'd prefer to sell anything Japanese over German, German stuff has a lot more inherent faults nowadays that can come back to bit you (timing chain breakages, etc), there are quite a few BMW/Audi models on the "don't ever touch" list. With my extremely limited experience of Japanese cars (2006 CRV and Legacy) recently, I think I might agree. CRV didn't throw up any issues other than the well-known 'gritty' rear diff, while the Legacy lasted well over 100K miles before any real horribleness manifested - I didn't think that was bad at all for a 3L flat six that did not have an easy life! I just hope my Czech-badged german car lasts a decent length of time without issue too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 14:59:16 GMT
Gritty rear diff? Probably gathered dust from lack of use.
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Post by Boxer6 on Mar 16, 2019 15:21:18 GMT
Gritty rear diff? Probably gathered dust from lack of use. Not seen that before (got shot of it in 2008!) but can't say I'm surprised. The manual said to change the rear diff oil every 75K, but all the online forums reckoned 15K maximum. Mine needed doing every service interval or 12K to keep it sweet. Luckily, my mate's son was slim enough to get underneath and change it without needing axle stands or a pit - 20 minute job at most.
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Post by johnc on Mar 16, 2019 15:59:53 GMT
Did Honda just fit a drive shaft to the rear and have it going into an empty diff? That's unbelievable - there was absolutely no 4WD!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 16:11:36 GMT
As the chap said, that's the second fail in three attempts. Not good. Reminds me of the 4WD Cavalier from back in the day that would lunch its tranfer box just by having tyres with different tread depths fitted leaving the owner with a FWD car.
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