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Post by PG on May 8, 2019 12:42:14 GMT
It's interesting to read the Autocar reviews of the 320d M Sport and 330i back to back. The 330i report is more generous in its praise. From the 320d test - www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/3-series/first-drives/bmw-3-series-320d-m-sport-2019-uk-reviewThe wanky instruments don't get universal praise - ".. .But the main instrument screen in the 320d seemed needlessly over-stylised, with the primary information for speed and revs registering around the edges, a fairly useless map in the middle and a splat of other data dotted about the rest.
Mercifully the iDrive console remains and is easy to understand, but the centre screen that goes with it has become more cluttered. In time, I got used to it but not once did I prefer it to the system provided by the F30 3 Series.
"The ride is overly firms unless you have adaptive suspension, maybe - "The car’s ride quality is reasonable at best, too, and that was a surprise. Indeed, it is my strong sense that the F30 would offer far smoother passage from one place to the next than the rather firm G20 that has replaced it. I didn’t mind that so much, just so long as there was a quid pro quo to go with it. But those who are softer of bottom might want to consider an SE model rather than the lower, stiffer M Sport I drove.
And don’t be drawn into thinking that paying extra for adaptive damping will somehow provide a magic carpet that also handles: I’ve tried it on another 3 Series and, even in baseline Comfort mode, that underlying firmness remains. If my primary use of such a car was commuting or long-distance driving, I’d think hard about that." So all those people charging up and down the M1 in their 320d M Sports with standard suspension are somewhat missing the point perhaps? And the size - "Almost unbelievably, this 3 Series is wider and taller than was the original 7 Series 40 years ago, and it’s as long as a 5 Series from 30 years back. Small it ain’t."But it drives well, so that's 4 and a half stars then. And people complain about JLR bias in Autocar! |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 8, 2019 13:34:25 GMT
It's interesting to read the Autocar reviews of the 320d M Sport and 330i back to back. The 330i report is more generous in its praise. From the 320d test - www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/3-series/first-drives/bmw-3-series-320d-m-sport-2019-uk-reviewThe wanky instruments don't get universal praise - ".. .But the main instrument screen in the 320d seemed needlessly over-stylised, with the primary information for speed and revs registering around the edges, a fairly useless map in the middle and a splat of other data dotted about the rest.
Mercifully the iDrive console remains and is easy to understand, but the centre screen that goes with it has become more cluttered. In time, I got used to it but not once did I prefer it to the system provided by the F30 3 Series.
"The ride is overly firms unless you have adaptive suspension, maybe - "The car’s ride quality is reasonable at best, too, and that was a surprise. Indeed, it is my strong sense that the F30 would offer far smoother passage from one place to the next than the rather firm G20 that has replaced it. I didn’t mind that so much, just so long as there was a quid pro quo to go with it. But those who are softer of bottom might want to consider an SE model rather than the lower, stiffer M Sport I drove.
And don’t be drawn into thinking that paying extra for adaptive damping will somehow provide a magic carpet that also handles: I’ve tried it on another 3 Series and, even in baseline Comfort mode, that underlying firmness remains. If my primary use of such a car was commuting or long-distance driving, I’d think hard about that." So all those people charging up and down the M1 in their 320d M Sports with standard suspension are somewhat missing the point perhaps? And the size - "Almost unbelievably, this 3 Series is wider and taller than was the original 7 Series 40 years ago, and it’s as long as a 5 Series from 30 years back. Small it ain’t."But it drives well, so that's 4 and a half stars then. And people complain about JLR bias in Autocar! Yes.... but you neglected to quote: And yet there is something about this car that excites before you’ve reached the end of the street.
There’s something about the 2.0-litre diesel, too, because although its headline power and torque figures remain unchanged, it hauls like the last one never did, and in a way that requires more than a 55kg weight drop to explain.
Fact is the handling of this car is outstanding.
Unfazed by bumps, undulations, camber or surface changes, it aims directly for where you’ve pointed it. Its body control is at another level to that of any other car in this category I’ve tried. At times, the idea that this level of composure comes in the form of a four-door diesel family saloon seems faintly absurd.
I recognise absolutely this car’s failings but, to me, they are eclipsed by its ability to engage and enthuse the driver. The Ultimate Driving Machine? For the first time in a while, and in this class at least, the answer is you bet.
Maybe not so biased then? |
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Post by racingteatray on May 8, 2019 13:51:52 GMT
Does your 20d not "haul" then?
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Post by Tim on May 8, 2019 14:02:30 GMT
Yes.... but you neglected to quote: And yet there is something about this car that excites before you’ve reached the end of the street.
There’s something about the 2.0-litre diesel, too, because although its headline power and torque figures remain unchanged, it hauls like the last one never did, and in a way that requires more than a 55kg weight drop to explain.
Fact is the handling of this car is outstanding.
Unfazed by bumps, undulations, camber or surface changes, it aims directly for where you’ve pointed it. Its body control is at another level to that of any other car in this category I’ve tried. At times, the idea that this level of composure comes in the form of a four-door diesel family saloon seems faintly absurd.
I recognise absolutely this car’s failings but, to me, they are eclipsed by its ability to engage and enthuse the driver. The Ultimate Driving Machine? For the first time in a while, and in this class at least, the answer is you bet.
Maybe not so biased then? I wonder how the estate version will fare because the F30 appears to have a characteristic 'hop' from the rear when it strikes a sharp bump that's mildly unsettling and brings to mind memories of driving shagged bangers with knackered shocks. The 20d does 'haul' if you work at it a bit. A full-blooded exit from a junction into a small gap is actually incredibly fast. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 8, 2019 14:27:29 GMT
You've mentioned this hop before and yet I've never experienced it on any F30/31 - despite having driven up a dozen or so over the last 3 years up and down the A697 to Edinburgh at speed, where anything like that would be sure to show itself.
Did you not say in the past you thought yours had been in an accident before you got it?
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Post by PG on May 8, 2019 15:10:21 GMT
Yes.... but you neglected to quote: And yet there is something about this car that excites before you’ve reached the end of the street.
There’s something about the 2.0-litre diesel, too, because although its headline power and torque figures remain unchanged, it hauls like the last one never did, and in a way that requires more than a 55kg weight drop to explain.
Fact is the handling of this car is outstanding.
Unfazed by bumps, undulations, camber or surface changes, it aims directly for where you’ve pointed it. Its body control is at another level to that of any other car in this category I’ve tried. At times, the idea that this level of composure comes in the form of a four-door diesel family saloon seems faintly absurd.
I recognise absolutely this car’s failings but, to me, they are eclipsed by its ability to engage and enthuse the driver. The Ultimate Driving Machine? For the first time in a while, and in this class at least, the answer is you bet.
Maybe not so biased then? I accept that its got a lot of positives. But previous generations had those too. It's the other stuff - like the interior ambience, looks and those dials - that seem to be taking a backward step. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 8, 2019 15:16:50 GMT
When I was looking for my Touring a few weeks back the local dealership had a new 3 series in the showroom so I had a bit sit and play around. I can kind of agree that the instruments are a bit "blingy" as so many cars are these days (no where near as bad as Mercedes) but my overall impression was positive. You could see areas where there had been a step up in material quality from the F30 - not a lot, but noticeable anyway. It felt a bit roomier as well. I was relieved that it didn't make mine feel instantly dated but equally reassured that if I bought one in the future I'd appreciate the upgrade.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 9, 2019 8:31:12 GMT
It's interesting to read the Autocar reviews of the 320d M Sport and 330i back to back. The 330i report is more generous in its praise. From the 320d test - www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/3-series/first-drives/bmw-3-series-320d-m-sport-2019-uk-reviewThe wanky instruments don't get universal praise - ".. .But the main instrument screen in the 320d seemed needlessly over-stylised, with the primary information for speed and revs registering around the edges, a fairly useless map in the middle and a splat of other data dotted about the rest.
Mercifully the iDrive console remains and is easy to understand, but the centre screen that goes with it has become more cluttered. In time, I got used to it but not once did I prefer it to the system provided by the F30 3 Series.
"The ride is overly firms unless you have adaptive suspension, maybe - "The car’s ride quality is reasonable at best, too, and that was a surprise. Indeed, it is my strong sense that the F30 would offer far smoother passage from one place to the next than the rather firm G20 that has replaced it. I didn’t mind that so much, just so long as there was a quid pro quo to go with it. But those who are softer of bottom might want to consider an SE model rather than the lower, stiffer M Sport I drove.
And don’t be drawn into thinking that paying extra for adaptive damping will somehow provide a magic carpet that also handles: I’ve tried it on another 3 Series and, even in baseline Comfort mode, that underlying firmness remains. If my primary use of such a car was commuting or long-distance driving, I’d think hard about that." So all those people charging up and down the M1 in their 320d M Sports with standard suspension are somewhat missing the point perhaps? And the size - "Almost unbelievably, this 3 Series is wider and taller than was the original 7 Series 40 years ago, and it’s as long as a 5 Series from 30 years back. Small it ain’t."But it drives well, so that's 4 and a half stars then. And people complain about JLR bias in Autocar!
The instruments are terrible but then BMW are hardly alone in this matter but it does evidence that someone has prioritised tinsel over being the ultimate driving machine.
If the ride is worse then an F30 then I would refuse to get in the car. Our F30 rides bloody terribly, so much that I use my Focus now for long drives up north. I'm convinced it has the transit blocks still stuck in the suspension. 19"s with M sport and runflats certainly don't help. If it was my car I'd put it on normal tyres.
Overall its a decent looking car apart from the front end. However the 3 series, like the Golf, seems to have a reputation as being better then the competition and no doubt in a certain spec it may be true but not in the ones I've experienced.
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Post by Tim on May 9, 2019 9:02:14 GMT
You've mentioned this hop before and yet I've never experienced it on any F30/31 - despite having driven up a dozen or so over the last 3 years up and down the A697 to Edinburgh at speed, where anything like that would be sure to show itself. Did you not say in the past you thought yours had been in an accident before you got it? Franki said his 335d was the same. It only happens on very sharp bumps and is a slight sideways step. It's probably only a fraction of an inch but its noticeable and feels a little uncomfortable if you're trying to make progress on a narrow road. You probably need to try it on some of the crap roads up here. I'd suggest the road from St Andrews that goes past Craigtoun Park and the Dukes Course (a road that doesn't appear to have a number!) |
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Post by racingteatray on May 9, 2019 9:53:53 GMT
How odd. The ride on my 440i in Comfort on 19" Bridgestone run-flats is absolutely fine - I have the adaptive suspension - do you? Cushier than my old M135i at any rate, and that had 18"s on the Supersport non-run-flats (and adaptive suspension) - I think of it as quite a "lollopy" (if that makes sense) sort of car when you aren't pressing on. It is much stiffer in Sport or Sport+.
Also, weirdly enough I think the 440i's ride is worse on the 18" Pirelli run-flat winter tyres.
I've not noticed the hop - but the M135i could definitely hop a bit at the rear if faced with eg a motorway expansion joint on a bend.
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Post by Tim on May 9, 2019 10:15:19 GMT
Mine doesn't have adaptive dampers.
I wonder if the estates are more prone to it as they'll presumably have stiffer rear springs and when empty no more weight over the back than the saloons or GC?
At some point I'll get round to test driving another, newer one.
I know the mags suggest that BMW appear to make constant adjustments to the cars through their life.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 9, 2019 11:36:18 GMT
No Adaptive dampers on ours but then I'm not a massive fan of different drive modes. I just want one that works out of the box.
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Post by racingteatray on May 9, 2019 11:50:18 GMT
No Adaptive dampers on ours but then I'm not a massive fan of different drive modes. I just want one that works out of the box. I have them because I live in central London and the roads are crap and littered around us with speed humps, so the ability to soften the suspension compared to MSport standard is invaluable. I discovered that with the M5 (which had adaptive and rode surprisingly well in Comfort) and have considered it essential on my BMWs ever since. |
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Post by michael on May 9, 2019 12:09:08 GMT
I saw another new 3 series today and I can't get over how dull yet ugly it is. The XE is looking more the paragon of by the day. Shame they don't do the estate.
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Post by racingteatray on May 9, 2019 15:20:08 GMT
I saw another new 3 series today and I can't get over how dull yet ugly it is. The XE is looking more the paragon of by the day. Shame they don't do the estate. Agreed. And shame they haven't seen fit to put the new Ingenium straight six in it to boot. |
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Post by Alex on May 13, 2019 6:31:31 GMT
I forgot to post that I had one for a day last week as a hire car between Edinburgh and Aberdeen. I agree the instrument cluster is cluttered and the lack of a rev counter in Eco Pro mode seems a bit unintuitive plus the map in the middle is pointless. I also found it somewhat disconcerting to see a 0miles reading next to the petrol pump symbol despite thinking the car had a full tank of fuel until is started going in to Plus and minus figures and I worked out it was telling me how much my driving style was adding or taking away from the predicted range. Bloody pointless. I was impressed with the head up display though, it was pretty much a sat nav screen in full. The stereo was good but doesn’t appear to have CarPlay as standard which is a bit of an omission as the BMW system didn’t really work when trying to find podcasts on my phone.
The interior was a lovely place to sit and a real step up from the previous generation, though the steering wheel is still a bit thick. I only really did the motorway drive between the two cities and a little bit of town driving in Aberdeen but it was supremely comfortable and easy to drive. It didn’t feel like it would blow your mind performance wise but then I didn’t really try out sport mode properly, it reverted to Eco Pro at start up so I tried that and comfort but found the former better on the motorway.
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Post by Martin on May 13, 2019 7:01:07 GMT
No Adaptive dampers on ours but then I'm not a massive fan of different drive modes. I just want one that works out of the box. I have them because I live in central London and the roads are crap and littered around us with speed humps, so the ability to soften the suspension compared to MSport standard is invaluable. I discovered that with the M5 (which had adaptive and rode surprisingly well in Comfort) and have considered it essential on my BMWs ever since. Yes, surely with just one setting and such a big difference between B Roads/City Centre/Motorway/Smooth A Road, the one out of the box is always going to be a compromise? I like being able to soften the Golf up when I’m in the motorway or around town. Voodoo mode in the BMW is the best solution I’ve tried, as it adjusts the dampers, anti roll bars and ride height for you based on information from a load of sensors (inc how you’re driving), navigation and what it sees through the cameras. It’s also good for parking, because if you go nose in to a kerb, it lifts the front up. |
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Post by Tim on May 13, 2019 9:57:54 GMT
IIt didn’t feel like it would blow your mind performance wise but then I didn’t really try out sport mode properly, it reverted to Eco Pro at start up so I tried that and comfort but found the former better on the motorway. I find with the F30 version that if you put your foot down and hang onto the revs a bit it is actually pretty quick but you have to work at it. In addition I always put it into Sport mode from the off as it is much more responsive to the throttle when you're pulling away from junctions. One thing about the modes that does really annoy me is that if you switch the engine off, even for a second (apart from the stop/start thing) it defaults back to 'normal'. Doubly irritating since if you have the heated seats on, for example, and leave the car for 10 minutes when you switch back on it remembers and puts them on too. |
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Post by johnc on May 13, 2019 10:43:30 GMT
My 435D had adaptive suspension and Bridgestone S001 runflats and the ride was really good. The M5 is a bit firmer at slow speeds but limo smooth when the speed increases and as I have said previously I put the low speed firmness down to the Pirelli PZeros which don't cushion in the way the Michelin Pilot Sport 4's do.
I always found the 435D to be very confidence inspiring even when pushing on and on the road I had no real complaints - it was never as engaging as my E46 but it had much higher levels of grip. However the M5's composure is on a different level again - I was down in my old stomping grounds last week on the roads I have used tens of thousands of times - on one road there is a left hander which has a bit of a dip just on the apex. Most decent cars can take the corner at 60mph but some are uncomfortable with the suspension nearly fully compressed by the dip and then struggling to regain grip and composure for the rest of the corner. I went round it at 60mph in the M5 and it just absorbed it in a way that suggests an ability which didn't even register as anything which would trouble it. So different was the experience that I went back and did it again.
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Post by racingteatray on May 13, 2019 12:16:52 GMT
So different was the experience that I went back and did it again. And that, surely, is why you bought it. And why it is special. |
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Post by Ben on May 14, 2019 15:14:10 GMT
I happen to have the 3 Series on test today, in 330i M Sport form, and I broadly concur with Autocar regarding iDrive and the ride quality. The latter quality especially is just too much of a compromise, so I'm surprised it got the full 5 stars.
Even in Comfort mode the car just jumps all over the place at even the slightest road imperfection. Shame because most of the rest of the car is pretty excellent.
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Post by michael on May 14, 2019 15:24:14 GMT
Shame because most of the rest of the car is pretty excellent. Apart from being wilfully ugly. A car you'd by despite its looks. |
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Post by Ben on May 14, 2019 17:01:42 GMT
Shame because most of the rest of the car is pretty excellent. Apart from being wilfully ugly. A car you'd by despite its looks. I don't mind it really. I mean, it's not the most attractive car out there, but it's alright to me. |
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Post by racingteatray on May 14, 2019 17:44:10 GMT
I think it's hugely colour and spec-sensitive, which is not uncommon in BMWs. But it merely varies from fugly to ugly to bearable. Like the pre-facelift F20 1-series.
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Post by johnc on May 14, 2019 18:27:09 GMT
I followed a new black 3 series this afternoon and thought it looked OK. I couldn't get close enough to tell what flavour it was but it was certainly being pedalled enthusiastically.
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Post by Martin on May 15, 2019 9:16:09 GMT
I’ve seen a few now in various colours and agree it’s very colour/spec/wheel sensitive but that’s no different to the last couple of generations of 3. It can look quite good imo, more modern than the previous model and despite the awful dials, the interior looks like a big step forward, as you’d expect with what amounts to a 2 generation move.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 9:20:47 GMT
Client of mine was looking at one as a workhorse, has had one before. He reckons it manages to look both ugly and boring.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 16, 2019 9:27:33 GMT
I've seen a couple of new 3-Series now and they're certainly not willfully ugly but the chrome grille doesn't do it any favours (does it do any of them?) I'm not a big fan of chrome on BMWs anyway. I'f be interested to see one with the de-chromed grille.
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Post by johnc on May 16, 2019 9:41:55 GMT
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Post by Tim on May 16, 2019 10:19:41 GMT
Christ, that looks terrible on a white car.
Reminds me of the moustache on the Go Compare man.
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