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Post by garry on Jun 13, 2020 13:35:25 GMT
Could you live with the front-end styling? I would have to fork out extra for that Revenant front grille, because I can't stand the standard front end. I also don't much care for the interior of the current Vantage. Like a late 1990s JVC stack system. Exterior I’m ok with. I know it’s not to everyone’s taste. Interior I’d need to get up close. The pictures don’t fill me with excitement, but reviewers seem to like the quality. Have to see it in real life.
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Post by garry on Jun 13, 2020 13:21:24 GMT
If an r8 is too wide you can exclude the amg gt and most Ferraris. The Mclaren’s are very tempting but there currently seems no end to their depreciation and running costs are significant ,along with reliability questions and when they do go wrong how long they take to fix . The aston is a good choice ,it would be mine if I wanted a less focussed car than the gt3,a 911 or cayman/boxster gts are great as well. That’s where my mind is at. The huge caveat being that I’ve not driven the vantage in latest guise and didn’t rate the previous version.
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Post by garry on Jun 13, 2020 13:10:54 GMT
Size-wise, certainly a Boxster is a skinny jim compared to the rest, but a McLaren 650S doesn't seem appreciably bigger than a 992, and an R8 and a Vantage seem to have a very similar footprint: Boxster GTS: L-4404, W-1801, H-1273 R8: L-4426, W-1940, H-1240 Vantage: L-4465, W-1942, H-1273 650S Spider: L-4511, W-1895, H-1199 992 - L4519, W-1900, H-1289 California: L-4570, W-1910, H-1322 DB11: L-4793, W-1940, H-1279 I think there is a bit more too how wide a car feels than just its dimensions ,how you sit in it and things like the length of the bonnet all contribute. McLarens have great visibility ,Porsche’s have as well, Yep. I was surprised by these numbers. A 911 feels small and fits well on uk B roads. The r8 I drove was way more intimidating.
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Post by garry on Jun 13, 2020 13:07:56 GMT
I must be the only one who would much prefer a "normal" Carrera to any of the stripped-out GT versions. I can get with the GTS versions and did very much like the 997 R, but beyond that, the appeal drops off for reasons I can't quite explain. You’re not the only one. Track weapons rarely have any appeal, much prefer a more car like car. Same here. For me it’s the fact that the performance is beyond what you can reasonably use on the road. I guess the same case could be made about a base 911, but I get plenty of opportunity to red line it. Much more performance and I wouldn’t.
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Post by garry on Jun 13, 2020 7:29:39 GMT
Suddenly the hatch looks a lot better! Ideal for the person who wants 14 feet of car.
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Post by garry on Jun 12, 2020 20:06:21 GMT
Wow. Some great inspiration. I had not even thought about a McLaren. Somewhere in my mind I seem to recall stories about horrendous service? Could be wrong. I wonder if they’re a bit too ‘specialist’ for me. Worth a look though The db11 is a good shout - almost a practical option. I like the the Ferrari California suggestion. Never even driven a Ferrari so I should at least have a poke around. I’ve also added the an Amg gt convertible and the Honda nsx. I’ve never been a fan of the r8 and the short drive I had in one didn’t change that - it felt too wide to really enjoy on the roads around me. The Vantage is probably top of the list right now. Probably for no better reason than, as Roadsterstu points out. it’s as Aston As I say my colleague seems delighted with his 650S spider. He had a 991 Turbo convertible before, and just says the McLaren feels many times more special - a proper supercar, whereas the Porker was more of a uber-fast sportscar. He's quite the petrolhead - his "station car" is a CL65 AMG - yes the mad V12 one. The DB11 is lovely but possibly a bit "older gent"? As regards the California, read here (published a few days ago): www.pistonheads.com/news/general/ferrari-california--ph-used-buying-guide/42549That guide is really useful - thanks. Regarding the DB11 - I am an older gent!
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Post by garry on Jun 12, 2020 16:55:05 GMT
Wow. Some great inspiration. I had not even thought about a McLaren. Somewhere in my mind I seem to recall stories about horrendous service? Could be wrong. I wonder if they’re a bit too ‘specialist’ for me. Worth a look though
The db11 is a good shout - almost a practical option.
I like the the Ferrari California suggestion. Never even driven a Ferrari so I should at least have a poke around.
I’ve also added the an Amg gt convertible and the Honda nsx.
I’ve never been a fan of the r8 and the short drive I had in one didn’t change that - it felt too wide to really enjoy on the roads around me.
The Vantage is probably top of the list right now. Probably for no better reason than, as Roadsterstu points out. it’s as Aston
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Post by garry on Jun 12, 2020 12:53:47 GMT
Some good comments. Thoughts:
I don’t think I could live with an older Ferrari. Everyone I know who’s owned one has found them temperamental.
The F type doesn’t float my boat. I drove a v8 years ago and I found it a handful - the sort of car that required too much concentration too. Much of the time. Isn’t it also a place to lose spectacular money?
The gts does have big appeal.
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Post by garry on Jun 12, 2020 12:11:12 GMT
Based on a couple of threads here I’m going to take a look around with a view to potentially changing the 991.
Basic plan is I’m going to look at options to sell the Porsche and put circa £50k additional cash in. That should get me to around the 90k mark. I’m likely to keep the car for about 6 or 7 years and it is likely to see me through to retirement (I’m 52 today!). The car has to serve no specific purpose - I can really get whatever I want in terms of number of seats etc. Shouldn’t be a stupid place to put my money though. On the list:
992 (obviously). Maybe new
Vantage. I really like the new one, reviews are good. Plenty around in budget. I drove the last version and didn’t think much of it at all - felt generations out of date to me. New one has some very good write ups. Core mechanicals should be robust too.
Boxster gts. Might seem like a surprise inclusion but I think this could be my idea of perfection. I’ll grudgingly admit an ego issue will need to be dealt with in ‘stepping down’ from a 911.
That’s it so far. Any thoughts? Anything I should add on?
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Post by garry on Jun 11, 2020 9:14:34 GMT
So here are the maths - which you are free to pick over at your leisure. Assumptions:The two second hand cars have been plucked from AT this afternoon - the indy car is the cheapest 991 under 45k miles and the OPC car is the cheapest 991 they've got. Mileage is 45k and 38k respectively. I couldn't get a PCP quote on either - so I've gone full HP with a £10k deposit I cannot get hold of any base 992 PCP quotes - but I have two from Aug/Sept 2019. - Base car over 48 months = £10k deposit and £900 a month - S with 10k options (£102k list) over 48 months = £15k deposit and £892 a month (source Pistonheads) I am fairly confident in the coming months, those deals will come back. But I have assumed there is no equity in the car at the end of PCP term Both second hand cars will be 12 years old with 70k plus miles and no warranty at the end of term - if you want to argue they will be worth more than 15k trade, then you need to uplift my assumption of zero equity by the same amount. Running costs is tricky - but no one spends £40k on a car only to scrimp on running costs, so I expect suspension work and other stuff, plus big services and potential for some huge unplanned bills. So - as the numbers show, over 4 years there is next to fuck all difference in the grand scheme between the cheap used car and a brand new one. That extra to swish around in the automotive second coming that is the 992 (allegedly) vs a much slower 8 year old car that could mess it's trousers at any moment is so worth it. That's interesting, thanks. Sadly, no way I could ever justify spanking nearly £60k to drive a Porsche for four years. I wonder how many of us really could. My thinking is if I bought new, planned to keep it for about 7 years (age of my car now) I should be looking at at value of mid to high £40’s at that point, that means about £40k of depreciation over 7 years or £470 per month. The alternative is to keep the 991, but I think I’d be taking 25 - 30k depreciation over the same period on that and running an old car. Appreciate any feedback on my figures/assumptions
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Post by garry on Jun 11, 2020 5:31:43 GMT
Have you run an 8 year old 911 for 4 years and 32k miles ? What assumptions are " well out " ? I've assumed the OPC car is covered for 2 years and is in great condition, so you wouldn't have many out of service expenses for the first two years. Years 3 and 4 is without warranty. Not sure if Porsche would sell you their warranty in years 11 and 12. Of course, you can play tunes with this, you might luck out and find an 8 year old 991 that's just had a suspension refresh and new disks and pads, or you might get unlucky and end up with the automotive equivalent of trigger's broom that also needs an engine or gearbox rebuild. I've tried to take the middle ground without taking the piss. If you are Ed China type, you might be able to do this stuff yourself - most of us though are at the mercy of a great specialist. However, as I said at the start, you won't be cutting corners on something that you are paying £800 a month for, so it's going to be pricey keeping one tip top. I don't have the trouser furniture to risk an purchase from a non specialist independent - so the real comparator for me would be OPC used vs new. This has got me thinking. The difference in cost over the next few years of new vs old certainly looks close when all the additional benefits of new are added in. I’m wondering whether I’m at some ‘optimal’ point in terms of the value of my car - I’ve ran the 991 for three years, it’s cost me circa £12k in deprecation, one set of tyres and one service ( I got the first service included in the deal). I know that’s outstanding value, but this thread is making me wonder if it’s time to change.
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Post by garry on Jun 10, 2020 18:57:10 GMT
So here are the maths - which you are free to pick over at your leisure. Assumptions:The two second hand cars have been plucked from AT this afternoon - the indy car is the cheapest 991 under 45k miles and the OPC car is the cheapest 991 they've got. Mileage is 45k and 38k respectively. I couldn't get a PCP quote on either - so I've gone full HP with a £10k deposit I cannot get hold of any base 992 PCP quotes - but I have two from Aug/Sept 2019. - Base car over 48 months = £10k deposit and £900 a month - S with 10k options (£102k list) over 48 months = £15k deposit and £892 a month (source Pistonheads) I am fairly confident in the coming months, those deals will come back. But I have assumed there is no equity in the car at the end of PCP term Both second hand cars will be 12 years old with 70k plus miles and no warranty at the end of term - if you want to argue they will be worth more than 15k trade, then you need to uplift my assumption of zero equity by the same amount. Running costs is tricky - but no one spends £40k on a car only to scrimp on running costs, so I expect suspension work and other stuff, plus big services and potential for some huge unplanned bills. So - as the numbers show, over 4 years there is next to fuck all difference in the grand scheme between the cheap used car and a brand new one. That extra to swish around in the automotive second coming that is the 992 (allegedly) vs a much slower 8 year old car that could mess it's trousers at any moment is so worth it. That’s really interesting. Would you also add a warranty cost on to both used cars too?
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Post by garry on Jun 10, 2020 17:03:32 GMT
This has Martin's name all over it. A high quality and very practical family truck, but I don't think I could live with the looks. It’s not a looker. I’ve got a soft spot for the q7.
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Post by garry on Jun 10, 2020 16:58:17 GMT
I met that guy from carwow on a flight to Dubai late last year. Good bloke. He’s got a 911 (996 I think) and some super fast mk2 mx5 and I seem to recall an original 500?
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Post by garry on Jun 10, 2020 13:45:56 GMT
Is it going to be cheap? Why is it different forms what’s on offer?
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Post by garry on Jun 10, 2020 11:08:37 GMT
Doesn’t your man maths get you into a new car at this point? 😀 My man maths can get me into a new car at any point! In that case I think you should use man maths to magic a Panamera turismo into your life!
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Post by garry on Jun 10, 2020 9:50:39 GMT
Doesn’t your man maths get you into a new car at this point? 😀
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Post by garry on Jun 9, 2020 7:04:16 GMT
but maybe it’s held on to more value than I expected You have to factor in the margin any Porsche dealer would want. I have been told that Glasgow Porsche look to offer about £10K less than they eventually anticipate retailing the car for. However all cars get a respray on the front end and come with a warranty so that eats into the margin a small bit! That makes sense. In reality I think I’d be at £40k trade, low £40k’s as a private sale and an opc would market at near £50k. To an earlier point, I can’t see £50k being good value for my car.
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Post by garry on Jun 9, 2020 6:56:56 GMT
One of my colleagues uses a stock photo of our floor of the office, devoid of any people, as his backdrop. It's really quite disconcerting. I don't bother. When sat at my desk, the backdrop behind me is just of a plain wall adorned only by one entirely inoffensive Dutch landscape painting. We’ve designed a virtual office backdrop that we use as our background when we are on external calls. I find it amusing how many kids/pets/partners make an appearance on a call. I also enjoy a nosey in the houses of some - was on a session recently to a team in the states and one women (who I’ve met in real life and she’s always very smartly dressed) lives like a tramp!
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 17:14:39 GMT
I’ve got a bogo 2013 991 and I’d happily accept £56k! Seriously, I’m not sure what it would be at an OPC, but I’d be amazed if it started with a 5. I get the general point though that the figures might be closer than you’d expect. The cheapest 991 at an OPC is a Sep 2012 with PDK, paddles, upgraded wheels and dimming mirrors which has done 34k miles and they want £47,990. Increasing the budget to just under £52k gets you a December 2012 Carrera S with Sport Chrono, Sports Exhaust, cruise, heated seats, Bose and a couple of other bits. Maybe I’m underestimating the price of mine - it’s a 2013 car with 44k miles, pano roof, sports exhaust, Bose, upgraded wheels. It’s a manual too (not sure what it does to the value). I only paid £53k three years ago from an opc. It was a hard negotiation and I know I got a good deal, but maybe it’s held on to more value than I expected
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 16:07:07 GMT
Ideally I would have found a car for bang on £50k, but there weren't any on Autotrader that would quote a PCP in the advert. So I've shown the closest I could find on ten minutes searching that still proves it isn't much more to obtain a brand new one versus using finance on an old one. I’ve got a bogo 2013 991 and I’d happily accept £56k! Seriously, I’m not sure what it would be at an OPC, but I’d be amazed if it started with a 5. I get the general point though that the figures might be closer than you’d expect.
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 15:58:51 GMT
The Colston thing boils my piss. It’s just looking into the past to generate faux outrage in the present. And it’s not even a truthful look into the past. The subtext is that white man enslaved black man and we should feel a collective guilt about it. That wasn’t most white men. I’m from generations of Durham miners. My great grandad was down the mine at 14. Generations before him went down the pit at 11. When slavery was a abolished they were still sending young children and women down the mines for 11 hour shifts. The point being that being a black slave and being white british and lower class is hard to distinguish in 1810. It was horrific for the vast majority of people, But I’m not going to find some epitaph to british coal and chuck it in the Tyne, instead, every time I look at my kids I’m thankful that they don’t have to live that life and I can put them and their kids in an even better place.
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 14:47:39 GMT
I’m green screened with HD cameras and lighting in my office. I could rent it out as a porn studio out of office hours.
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 13:55:12 GMT
I’m not sure if I accept that George Floyds murder had anything to do with his race. What I see is an American police force that kills citizens with breathtaking frequency. They shoot roughly 1,000 people per year - many more white people than black people. It’s fair to say that black deaths are proportionally over-represented when you pro rata the population but they get killed at the same frequency as everyone else per encounter (meaning there are proportionally more police encounters with black people). I don’t know what the figures are here in the uk, but I will say that from all the travelling I’ve done I would not swap our police force for any other in the world. So, there are two points I’d make: 1. The American people should be protesting this horrible murder for what it is - yet another example of an out of control police force who all too often kill the people they’re supposed to protect. 2. I have no idea why groups in the uk see the police murder of a man in America as a reason to riot here. Protest by all means, but to turn it into a F.. the Police festival here makes no sense. In the main I agree with the above. However I do think that the US has a deeply ingrained racist problem. When the Ryder Cup was at Gleneagles my manager went up to watch play. The only way to get in was by bus and he ended up sitting next to a group of Americans from Texas. The marvelled at the stone dyke walls which are everywhere and one of them asked my manager "Who builds those walls when you don't have any n*****s or Mexicans"? I think that sums up nicely the attitudes that are prevalent in some areas of the US and perhaps points to the fact that it will be rather a long time before such views die or disappear. I don’t disagree with you. I used to live in Edinburgh and spent time with a North American sales team who would visit for our annual conference. Their masks would slip after a couple of drinks and they’d be making comments about the waiters in the Indian restaurant. Mind you, they were also pretty awful to woman too or really anyone who wasn’t the same as them. So I’m not saying there isn’t a racism problem in the states, just that myopic focus on racism might not get to the route cause. Taking it to an extreme, if the problem is racism, the police could fix that by killing a few more whites. What the American people should really be saying is ‘Would you mind not murdering any of us!”
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 13:29:24 GMT
I've probably said it before, but a watch to me is something that saves me having to get my phone out of my pocket to see what the time is. Nothing else. I have no desire to own more than one either. This is where watches, cars, motorbikes, jewellery, clothes, quails eggs etc. come together as one group of first world problems. Where we live we very probably genuinely don't need a car but we have two. I have several watches and wear one at a time and during lockdown almost none at all. My suits, dress shirts, fancy shoes are all gathering dust / moths and W2.1's tits haven't seen a bra in some months.I’m trying to work out whether you think this is a good or bad consequence of lockdown!
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 13:27:55 GMT
Indeed. This morning I had to do a formal pitch to the CEO etc of a listed company earlier via Teams video meeting, and whilst we had pre-agreed no suits/ties required, today is the first day in nearly three months that I've worn a formal dress shirt. I have a formal shirt and jacket hanging in my office. I had a ceo meeting last week so it was shirt, jacket and shorts for me!
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 11:32:08 GMT
I couldn’t be rich enough to wear a £40k watch! Most of my watches come to bad endings ( I’ve lost two in bike crashes and lost one in a lake). I’ve got a Rolex that was a gift many years ago, but I couldn’t immediately tell you where it is. A Casio G shock is the only long term survivor in my hands.
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 11:26:00 GMT
And just to give a sense how some spend money, I know a guy, runs a decent business but not mega wealthy and he leases a Rolls Royce Dawn for well over £2k per month. Everyone has their own limits I guess!
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 11:06:23 GMT
I’m not sure how going over £400 is financially irresponsible, but you do have to set yourself a limit (then man maths an increase!). Some people would say paying £55k for a £43k car is financially irresponsible! That's the point. I never said it was financially irresponsible, per se. I simply meant that for me, on my income and given the other many things I have to fund out of my income and the desire to still have some aside to save for other things, £400 felt like a responsible limit. Especially when you consider that for me any half-decent car is an expensive indulgence as I don't actually need one 90% of the time. I completely agree that paying £55k for a £43k car is irresponsible. I'd never do it. But if I buy my car outright cash in December, then thanks to a very large discount and low APR, a car that retailed at £48,355 will have cost me slightly less than £42k all-in, and moreover I was able to spread that cost over 4 years. A quick glance on line shows me that to fund the £17.5k balloon for a further four years at 2.9% APR will cost me a further £1k in interest, whilst maintaining my monthlies at just slightly less than I currently pay. That would mean I could spread the cost of purchasing a car over eight years for interest of less than £4k all-in, or less than £500 per annum. I call that ok in the grand scheme of things. And I could do other things with the wodge of my savings that I would otherwise need to use to buy the car outright. This makes sense to me. Everyone has their own limits. I own the Porsche and lease the Ford (which I think of and treat like a white good). My approach to buying them is very different ( the ford could have been anything with seven seats that was cheap to lease). I like just handing it back. Shockingly they cost me about the same (paid £53k for the Porsche three years ago. Now worth low £40k’s I suspect so somewhere near £3k per year in depreciation, pay £250 per month for the ford on a 3 x 35 lease). The Etron (which replaces the ford as 7 seats no longer needed) is amazingly cheap (high £300’s to lease but done through the business so it’s pre tax money and zero bik, plus lower running costs)
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Post by garry on Jun 8, 2020 10:36:22 GMT
That's dismal - good riddance to bad rubbish. I feel a little embarrassed that I stayed with them. But with a thousand better things to do I don’t really spend too much time on insurance.
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