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Post by PetrolEd on Mar 26, 2024 14:48:24 GMT
Looking at the market currently all my old favorites have either moved to EV or are in the process of changing its replacement to EV.
Cars like the Giulia Quadrifoglio are going EV, the next Cayman, the death of the hot hatch. Now not all is lost as the i30N is being replaced by things like the Ioniq 5N. The problem, they're the size of a bus and at 65K not exactly affordable like hot hatches of old.
Maybe I'm a dinosaur and in 5 years EV's will prove me wrong with them becoming smaller, lighter and less expensive.
What happened to the Caterham concept that was supposed to be a game changer? Having looked its 80 grand for something that has a small battery and not that quick. If you can't sell an Alpine for 50K can you sell at Caterham for far more?
So do I just get a car like a Cayman 4.0 GTS with a manual gearbox, manual dials, physical buttons for the controls, a great noise and let the EV revolution pass me by until a time when hopefully those manufacturers that have survived (probably all chinese) can offer us something interesting?
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Post by alf on Mar 26, 2024 17:32:59 GMT
I think so, as a second/low mileage car certainly. Younger generations may see it differently, but while I certainly don't mind EV's for family/urban/high mileage uses, for fun they leave me cold. I grew up wanting exotic sounding engines with >4 cylinders and that remains the main thing I want in a car.
I still can't quite believe that the European vehicle manufacturers only objected far too late to the total move to electrification. It should have been phased in with commercials and high mileage company cars being forced (with tax incentives) - as that's where the carbon is burned - and cars being a case of tax incentivisation, not the big stick. The automotive market did a poor job of defending itself, the focus on it compared to the more relaxed approach to aviation and domestic heating (woefully under-paying for their emissions in both cases) was and is out of kilter with its impact.
They can only get better - I think the approach of a mass market EV for family/work duties (avoiding very high end ones like the plague given the depreciation), and a petrol toy for the weekends, will be very popular!
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Post by ChrisM on Mar 26, 2024 18:18:32 GMT
The alternative is to emigrate to a country that speaks English and where there are no plans to phase ouit cars powered by internal combustion engines.
I'm of the age where I hope I die before I have to have an electric-powered vehicle
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Post by LandieMark on Mar 26, 2024 18:36:02 GMT
I'm keeping our fleet for as long as it's reasonably possible.
I'm hoping the L200 will see me through to 2030, which it should with regular care and maintenance and I'll see what sort of vehicle I need/want/is available at the time.
The L322 is as much vehicle as we need for everything, but I wouldn't have it as the only car. I'll keep that as long as possible. Mate of mine has one over 200k and Sam's Motor and Machine from YouTube has another high milage example, so high milages are perfectly possible with relative reliability subject to maintenance.
The MX5 needs to be used more and we hope to do so.
I do fancy another Series Land Rover (IIA) to be specific which will be a forever car (zombie apocalypse proof) and I've not given up on sports cars completely, but it isn't financially possible at the moment and I'm not in any rush.
Anything I do buy won't be new or too recent as there isn't anything that takes my fancy.
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Post by cbeaks1 on Mar 26, 2024 19:15:41 GMT
The alternative is to emigrate to a country that speaks English and where there are no plans to phase ouit cars powered by internal combustion engines. I'm of the age where I hope I die before I have to have an electric-powered vehicle I can confirm that having an electric vehicle is preferable to death.
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Post by Roadrunner on Mar 26, 2024 20:13:24 GMT
I can't see me wanting to replace the Benz anytime soon (only 57,000 miles and nicely run in) and it is mostly used for longer trips, so an electric replacement would be pointless.
If / when the time comes to go electric, I shall still have the Alvis as the perfectly analogue antidote to modern motoring. So I agree with Ed, get the proper driver's car you want and keep it long-term.
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Post by Boxer6 on Mar 26, 2024 20:14:52 GMT
.. .. .. Anything I do buy won't be new or too recent as there isn't anything that takes my fancy. My car is as new as I find to be (a) interesting, (b) affordable and (c) nice to look at. There are newer/other cars that would fit my brief I suppose, but none are electric and very few interesting to me. Not sure the F11 will last til it's 20, never mind me having it for 20 years .. .. but then, at 62, I highly doubt I'll still be here by then either!
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Post by Martin on Mar 27, 2024 0:11:03 GMT
I struggle to think of something I’d buy and keep for 20 years, but that’s because I don’t know what the options will be in 5-10 years and it would have to be something special as a second or ideally third car.
Lots of fleet musing going on in the Martin household at the moment, including an EV, but only as a 3 car garage solution with the EV as a (Lindsay’s) company car.
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Post by Alex on Mar 27, 2024 5:44:26 GMT
The alternative is to emigrate to a country that speaks English and where there are no plans to phase ouit cars powered by internal combustion engines. I'm of the age where I hope I die before I have to have an electric-powered vehicle Not quite with you there Chris. As much as they're not for enthusiastic driving, EVs are fine to drive on day to day duties. I'm starting to prefer the Octavia when it's got a bit of battery charge as it's so much smother in E-mode. But it's so heavy it's utterly shite at being hustled down a country road so that's where I can see how a lot of people will be holding on to their petrol powered sports cars as long as possible and given how stable the price of fuel currently is then it is perfectly possible to do so for a while yet.
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Post by Tim on Mar 27, 2024 8:32:09 GMT
When I bought the 430d one of the things on my mind was that with decent maintenance I should be fairly able to get it to 200k miles which would take me to at least 2030 at which point I've assumed it'll be worthless anyway.
I occasionally have a look at EVs I see on the road out of passing interest but I can't think of any apart from the Jag i Pace that actually looks nice enough for me to want.
Stephen Bayley's column in the latest Octane makes the point that EV design is crap and that we appear to be past the peak of car design.
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Post by bryan on Mar 27, 2024 9:55:34 GMT
I like PHEV and EV in the right place and can see us getting something like a mazda mx-30 phev as Mrs M's car when the time comes to replace the Yeti - but hopefully not for many years.
My plan having assembled an ecclectic mix of motors is(once I've finished building on the house) is get them in running condition and hope they last me out. I don't like touch screens and nothin new really appeals anymore - so i think I will be fishing in the pre 2018/19 pond for as long as I can
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Post by PetrolEd on Mar 27, 2024 10:02:35 GMT
Stephen Bayley's column in the latest Octane makes the point that EV design is crap and that we appear to be past the peak of car design. Its the only area I see some hope with electric. Without the need for all the cooling for an IC Engine it does give designers some scope for creativity. Clearly Tesla missed this by a country mile. I really can't understand why their designs are so gopping given a clean sheet of paper. Still, we have the new Renault 5 to look forward to. I quite liked the Honda E and Ioniq 5. Where Bayley does have a point is that all these designs appear to be an homage to something in the past rather then anything new and groundbreaking.
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Post by Blarno on Mar 27, 2024 14:11:08 GMT
I'm currently looking into getting a Reliant Scimitar GTE as a project. The idea being it gets restomodded and kept for the forseeable. The 330d is being kept for as long as is necessary, I can't think of anything that I would replace it with other than a newer version of the same or maybe a 335i, but as long as it keeps running and passing MOTs, getting rid is not needed.
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Post by PetrolEd on Mar 27, 2024 14:27:00 GMT
I'm currently looking into getting a Reliant Scimitar GTE as a project. The idea being it gets restomodded and kept for the forseeable. The 330d is being kept for as long as is necessary, I can't think of anything that I would replace it with other than a newer version of the same or maybe a 335i, but as long as it keeps running and passing MOTs, getting rid is not needed. A Scimitar Restomod would be a fantastic car.
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Post by Blarno on Mar 27, 2024 15:01:24 GMT
They're still relatively cheap, even cheaper for barn find basket cases. The hardest decision will be the engine/gearbox choice.
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Post by LandieMark on Mar 27, 2024 15:12:36 GMT
I was actually contemplating one a while back as a bit of simple fun - I really like the shape.
BMW 3.0L straight six petrol engine and manual gearbox would be obvious choice unless it's too long.
V6 Jag engine and gearbox from S Type is another. A TVR mate put that combo in his S Series to replace the Ford running gear.
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Post by Tim on Mar 27, 2024 15:13:51 GMT
The Scimitars were all Ford V6 powered weren't they? So another V6 would probably be the easiest
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Post by Martin on Mar 27, 2024 15:28:57 GMT
It's a good idea, you need to make this one happen!
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Post by Blarno on Mar 27, 2024 15:49:50 GMT
I was actually contemplating one a while back as a bit of simple fun - I really like the shape. BMW 3.0L straight six petrol engine and manual gearbox would be obvious choice unless it's too long. V6 Jag engine and gearbox from S Type is another. A TVR mate put that combo in his S Series to replace the Ford running gear. A BMW six/6 speed box is on the list of possibles.
They have a long engine bay so no reason why a straight six won't fit - the space normally in front of the V6 is filled with the spare wheel.
There is also the consideration of a Mercedes M113 V8, either 4.3 or 5.0, but Merc's manual gearboxes are generally considered to be dogshit, so a conversion kit will be needed. M113s are reasonably cheap right now - £300 will get a 4.3, £500 will get a 5.0.
The Jag V6 is a good idea that I hadn't thought of - I'd jumped straight to the V8 idea.
I have somewhere to keep it, a workshop to work on it, I just need HMRC to hurry up and pay me the tax refund they owe me before I can commit.
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Post by ChrisM on Mar 27, 2024 18:24:30 GMT
They're still relatively cheap, even cheaper for barn find basket cases. The hardest decision will be the engine/gearbox choice. Dead easy - the underpinnings and drivetrain from a BAC Mono......
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Post by cbeaks1 on Mar 27, 2024 18:25:49 GMT
They're still relatively cheap, even cheaper for barn find basket cases. The hardest decision will be the engine/gearbox choice. I think the one I had was £400 and bought with a mot. Another one I wish I had kept, but the list is long and the money was short. Or my wife hated it probably. I reckon that was about 2005. Time flies. I always wanted to do Scorpio Cosworth innards under a GTE
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Post by Blarno on Mar 27, 2024 20:12:35 GMT
I have one on watch in Aberystwyth. No engine or box and a few other bits missing, sat in a barn. £350.
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Post by Blarno on Mar 27, 2024 20:13:54 GMT
They're still relatively cheap, even cheaper for barn find basket cases. The hardest decision will be the engine/gearbox choice. Dead easy - the underpinnings and drivetrain from a BAC Mono...... I might struggle with £30k plus for an engine...
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Post by Stuntman on Mar 27, 2024 21:33:28 GMT
Looking at the market currently all my old favorites have either moved to EV or are in the process of changing its replacement to EV. Cars like the Giulia Quadrifoglio are going EV, the next Cayman, the death of the hot hatch. Now not all is lost as the i30N is being replaced by things like the Ioniq 5N. The problem, they're the size of a bus and at 65K not exactly affordable like hot hatches of old. Maybe I'm a dinosaur and in 5 years EV's will prove me wrong with them becoming smaller, lighter and less expensive. What happened to the Caterham concept that was supposed to be a game changer? Having looked its 80 grand for something that has a small battery and not that quick. If you can't sell an Alpine for 50K can you sell at Caterham for far more? So do I just get a car like a Cayman 4.0 GTS with a manual gearbox, manual dials, physical buttons for the controls, a great noise and let the EV revolution pass me by until a time when hopefully those manufacturers that have survived (probably all chinese) can offer us something interesting? Yes, absolutely. I've had my M3 for almost 15 years and will keep it until it goes pop. I intend to keep my current Cayman for at least that long, unless Porsche replaces it with a similar petrol-powered manual Cayman that I prefer. And I will keep my GR Yaris (or its similar petrol-powered manual replacement) for the long term too. Still love all of them, and driving each of them reveals the strengths of the others.
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Post by PetrolEd on Mar 28, 2024 10:33:04 GMT
Looking at the market currently all my old favorites have either moved to EV or are in the process of changing its replacement to EV. Cars like the Giulia Quadrifoglio are going EV, the next Cayman, the death of the hot hatch. Now not all is lost as the i30N is being replaced by things like the Ioniq 5N. The problem, they're the size of a bus and at 65K not exactly affordable like hot hatches of old. Maybe I'm a dinosaur and in 5 years EV's will prove me wrong with them becoming smaller, lighter and less expensive. What happened to the Caterham concept that was supposed to be a game changer? Having looked its 80 grand for something that has a small battery and not that quick. If you can't sell an Alpine for 50K can you sell at Caterham for far more? So do I just get a car like a Cayman 4.0 GTS with a manual gearbox, manual dials, physical buttons for the controls, a great noise and let the EV revolution pass me by until a time when hopefully those manufacturers that have survived (probably all chinese) can offer us something interesting? Yes, absolutely. I've had my M3 for almost 15 years and will keep it until it goes pop. I intend to keep my current Cayman for at least that long, unless Porsche replaces it with a similar petrol-powered manual Cayman that I prefer. And I will keep my GR Yaris (or its similar petrol-powered manual replacement) for the long term too. Still love all of them, and driving each of them reveals the strengths of the others. How do you find the GTS after the GT4? In many ways I preferred my basic 2.7 as a road car to the GT4 that came afterwards. There really isn't a huge difference in price between the GTS an GT4 and the GT4 has that straight off the track look that I'm a sucker for.
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Post by Stuntman on Mar 28, 2024 21:39:34 GMT
The GTS suits me better than the 981 GT4 did. It's a better and more usable road car in my opinion and I also prefer the subtler looks, most of the time. The engine is really well matched to the car too, and it feels more playful than the GT4.
I reckon it would be pretty good on track as well, certainly good enough for my intended use, given that I haven't been on track since 2018...
It's not as sweet to drive as my old 987.1 Cayman S though. I think it would be even better on a set of 19"s rather than the 20s, and the standard -20mm Sports PASM suspension drop versus the base 718 cars is possibly just the wrong side of firm on a bumpy B-road. It probably helps the handling at the expense of ride.
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Post by franki68 on Apr 2, 2024 8:01:35 GMT
Always found the Porsche sports suspension too firm for the roads , a 996 c2s with it was a real back breaker .
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 2, 2024 23:27:11 GMT
Looking at the market currently all my old favorites have either moved to EV or are in the process of changing its replacement to EV. Cars like the Giulia Quadrifoglio are going EV, the next Cayman, the death of the hot hatch. Now not all is lost as the i30N is being replaced by things like the Ioniq 5N. The problem, they're the size of a bus and at 65K not exactly affordable like hot hatches of old. Maybe I'm a dinosaur and in 5 years EV's will prove me wrong with them becoming smaller, lighter and less expensive. What happened to the Caterham concept that was supposed to be a game changer? Having looked its 80 grand for something that has a small battery and not that quick. If you can't sell an Alpine for 50K can you sell at Caterham for far more? So do I just get a car like a Cayman 4.0 GTS with a manual gearbox, manual dials, physical buttons for the controls, a great noise and let the EV revolution pass me by until a time when hopefully those manufacturers that have survived (probably all chinese) can offer us something interesting? I’m with you. I don’t per se mind electric cars - the i4 I tried back in 2022 was very impressive. But they aren’t very interesting. We’ve had Mrs RT’s Fiat 500 for knocking on for 11 years and we both still enjoy driving it. It’s getting a bit creaky in the suspension department but apart from that, it’s just fine. Can’t see it being replaced any time particularly soon absent a change of circumstances. Likewise, I remain delighted with our Mini Cooper, which we’ll have had for two years come August and can see that being a keeper for the foreseeable - it’s great to drive, very fit for purpose and still not due its first MOT until next year. The Macan is a great car but I suspect not one I’ll keep very long term just because the itch to change will turn up sooner or later and I already keep looking at Cayman/Boxster GTS 4.0s…. We own all of them outright nowadays, so no particular looming event horizons from a finance perspective.
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Post by alf on Apr 5, 2024 8:28:40 GMT
Plenty of love here for the GTS 4.0 Boxsters and Caymans - they're tonnes of money but not likely to lose much any time soon. I concur, but for a lot less money, I think any 6 cylinder manual Boxster/Cayman is potentially a keeper, I still see early ones as the bargain of the century, and compared to most cars, the mainstream ones are amazing drivers cars, not just the special editions. No doubt many 911's will survive a long time as well, but they're a lot more money.
Progress has been slow to non-existant in the ICE world for some time now, so condition is more important than age, more than at any time I've known. There is going to be a burgeoning industry in keeping good ICE cars going, and in restomods and restoration generally... Go Blarno!
It feels a more sensible place than the times of massive depreciation (which we seemed to have more of here than my European colleages). My 2007 330i touring listed with options at £36k, well under 3 years and <20k miles later I paid £16k for it, that seemed unsustainable even then, and a lot of pretty decent cars were being scrapped for no good reason.
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Post by PG on Apr 8, 2024 12:07:13 GMT
Most of the cars I could see myself keeping for 20 years are already a few years old. Or in some cases 20 years old already.
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