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Post by PG on Oct 24, 2023 13:42:20 GMT
I am not a fan of this government, but I'm even less a fan of the Labour party. I am really scared for what they will do to people like us and the country in general. As retired people without a nice index linked government backed pension, we rely on our pension pot and our investments to live. Both of these will be prime targets for Labour once they do the few weeks in "there's-no-money-emergency-budget-rip-up-their-manifesto-commitments-on-tax-and-have-at-it" volte face.
I expect to see NI expanded to include areas of income currently not covered - in the name of fairness of course. The left are just gagging to introduce some form of wealth tax or increase other taxes on people who have the temerity to own stuff or have money. It may be "the rich" but it won't be always the rich. I remember my father getting his tax demands in the 1970's and practically being in tears at the amount he had to pay. And he was a middle manager in a large company, not a billionaire. With the need for money, currently tax free or tax beneficial areas will be eyed up - if not private pension pots, then definitely ISA's. I am sure there will be some review on Council tax announced that will hit "rich" people of course.
Away from tax and spend - which is what Labour have always been focused on, not growth, not personal freedom, not aspiration, just tax and spend, spend, spend, we can just expect more of the same but with bells on. The net-zero lunacy will be kept on with and while I am sure that they will throw other-people's money at it, if you have the temerity to have any cash reserves you'll be expected to spend those on heat pumps, electric cars and fuck knows what else. Expect the 20mph limits to spread from Wales across the UK. I reckon the motorway speed limit may get reduced to 55 or 60 in the name of saving the planet - don't forget that the motorway speed limit was reduced to 55 mph in the mid 1970's oil crisis. And there was a hell of a fight to get that removed once it was introduced as a "temporary" measure.
I could go on but you probably get that I'm not a fan of Labour. I would not trust them as far as I could throw them.
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Post by PG on Oct 24, 2023 13:53:50 GMT
Remember that the higher rate tax threshold should be about £90K now if it had moved with earnings and inflation but at £50,250 in England and Wales and £43,662 in Scotland (and an additional 2% on top) the people they are taking nearly half their earnings from are hardly wealthy. Who's had the longest period in power in our working lives and hasn't addressed this? That'd be Labour from 1997 to 2010 then (13 years). 2010-2015 - Con-Lib coalition (5 years) 2015-2023 - Cons (8 years) Don't get me wrong, the coalition and Conservatives since have not rolled back anything or given anything back to people financially, mainly because they inherited the well-embedded by that time massive expansion of the state during the Blair and Brown years (mainly Brown who was allowed far too much Old Labour leeway as Chancellor). Add the £400Bn that Covid cost (and which was supported by all parties) on top of that and then people ask why tax is so high and blame the Conservatives. I've got a book written in 2008 called Squandered that looks at what Brown did to the nation's finances and structures. The waste, the bureaucracy, the destruction of things previously good (private final salary pension schemes for example). He should be in jail. www.amazon.co.uk/Squandered-David-Craig/dp/1845298322
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Post by chipbutty on Oct 24, 2023 14:14:56 GMT
I personally cannot vote for change for the sake of change (or knocking the Conservatives out of their complacency) if the alternative presents the level of risk it currently appears to.
I would say the level of debt and required future spend means that taxation will remain high for a good deal longer and every future Government will have to deal with this unless they make the big bold decisions (that we all know they won't). Elements of the left will still look to go " wild in the aisle " in spite of this - so tax will likely go up and nothing will get any better.
Even if Labour were to get kicked out after 5 years of hardcore leftery - the damage will have been done (as Pete says - the chances of rowing back on half the daft stuff they could do would be highly unlikely).
Oh - and don't believe any BS about holding referendums or consultations regarding key decisions. Drakeford, Kahn, numerous councils all completely ignored the feedback received and ploughed ahead regardless.
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Post by Tim on Oct 25, 2023 7:47:02 GMT
Yeah sure Labour could do a lot of daft stuff but, fuck me, they've been given some good examples by the useless cunts currently in charge.
For PG, yes you may not get any help in your situation but I work in financial services and we're currently going through a torrid time due to market performance, not helped by the brief spell of Trussonomics but it's more of a global issue.
I would like to see some sort of wealth tax levied on those who have waaaaaay too much money, tossers like Crispin Odey, as well as some sort of fair corporate tax system to discourage the 'offshoring' of profits. I think its the latter that is a large contributor to the difficulties in elderly care.
Before anyone jumps down my throat I have NEVER voted Labour and will probably not do so this time around.
I'm not sure what the solution, politically, to all this is but the current system no longer appears to be working.
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Post by Big Blue on Oct 25, 2023 8:58:37 GMT
Yeah sure Labour could do a lot of daft stuff but, fuck me, they've been given some good examples by the useless cunts currently in charge. Before anyone jumps down my throat I have NEVER voted Labour and will probably not do so this time around. I'm not sure what the solution, politically, to all this is but the current system no longer appears to be working. This is where I am.
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Post by PG on Oct 25, 2023 9:40:51 GMT
Yeah sure Labour could do a lot of daft stuff but, fuck me, they've been given some good examples by the useless cunts currently in charge. For PG, yes you may not get any help in your situation but I work in financial services and we're currently going through a torrid time due to market performance, not helped by the brief spell of Trussonomics but it's more of a global issue. I would like to see some sort of wealth tax levied on those who have waaaaaay too much money, tossers like Crispin Odey, as well as some sort of fair corporate tax system to discourage the 'offshoring' of profits. I think its the latter that is a large contributor to the difficulties in elderly care. Before anyone jumps down my throat I have NEVER voted Labour and will probably not do so this time around. I'm not sure what the solution, politically, to all this is but the current system no longer appears to be working. Yep, seeing that in my pension portfolio. Despite best efforts it's pretty much gone nowhere in the last few years, but we still need to take an income out of it. Re off-shoring profits, my answer to that is to abolish corporation tax. And replace it with a non-refundable witholding tax on distributions outside the UK. Distributions inside the UK would be taxed through income tax. To avoid loans being made instead of distributions, I'd deem all loans to shareholders or related companies, wherever based, as distributions and get the tax on them too, as well as making interest in inter-company loans to offshore companies distributions. That way if a company genuinely re-invests in growth or operations, there is no tax to pay. If an offshore billionaire (or highly geared private equity outfit) wants to take anything out of the company then tax will be paid. There's probably some gaping hole in my argument that a tax lawyer would take 5 seconds to spot, but it can't be any worse than the current mess. But to go all left wing for moment, I do agree with the abolition of non-dom status. It's an archaic hangover from bygone days. You live here, you pay tax here. Simples. I do agree with you that the current system is not working in loads of areas. But I think the rot set in during Blair and Brown's tenure and blaming "13 years of Tory government" is just political spin. In 1997, we had functioning libraries and local services, NHS waiting lists but not out of control ones (I saw a specialist in 2 weeks for something quite minor), more police, a bigger army, navy and airforce, people could buy a house and so on. By the time the coalition came in we had a hugely bigger state at hugely higher cost plus billions of future liabilities built up in PFI and public sector pensions. And yet when the coalition tried to cut anything it was core front line services that got cut. Go figure? Maybe the era of cheap money really is over and the reckoning is coming for us all. It is just that we have grown fat and lazy on the back of easy money, rather than hard work, and it may well be a society shattering shock to everyone if we had, as a country and a world, to live within our means. I'd just rather it was not under a Labour government as they are far more likely to confiscate assets to keep the ball in the air just that bit longer.
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Post by johnc on Oct 25, 2023 12:20:00 GMT
The companies that I see tend not to have distributions going overseas but have charges from overseas companies for goods, services and admin support etc which basically suck the profit out of the UK company. Transfer Pricing legislation is supposed to counter this but it is hugely expensive and difficult to prove.
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Post by PG on Oct 25, 2023 12:54:15 GMT
The companies that I see tend not to have distributions going overseas but have charges from overseas companies for goods, services and admin support etc which basically suck the profit out of the UK company. Transfer Pricing legislation is supposed to counter this but it is hugely expensive and difficult to prove. Ah, the joys of transfer pricing. Having worked for a US multi-national for 20 years, transfer pricing was an everyday occurrence. To me international tax transfer pricing is a world of make believe and fantasy justified at great effort by opaque and lengthy contracts that quite often bear no relation to what a company actually does in real terms. But allow the tax layers to argue the toss with local jurisdictions. That and weird structures that are of no commercial use but high tax-avoidance use. I became a real cynic over my time. And whilst I'm right of centre on politics, on global multi-nationals I'm of the hang 'em, flog 'em school. If I was on a Treasury select committee trying to question senior Amazon execs I'd simply ask them what their bonus was based on. Oh, UK sales and results they'd probably say without thinking. But you don't make any UK sales and your transfer pricing set up means that the UK is just a delivery arm I'd reply, so that means zero is your target then is it? Oh no, what I meant was........ We should just tax them on whatever bonus plan the local MD has.
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Post by Tim on Oct 25, 2023 13:22:43 GMT
The companies that I see tend not to have distributions going overseas but have charges from overseas companies for goods, services and admin support etc which basically suck the profit out of the UK company. Transfer Pricing legislation is supposed to counter this but it is hugely expensive and difficult to prove. Ah, the joys of transfer pricing. Having worked for a US multi-national for 20 years, transfer pricing was an everyday occurrence. To me international tax transfer pricing is a world of make believe and fantasy justified at great effort by opaque and lengthy contracts that quite often bear no relation to what a company actually does in real terms. But allow the tax layers to argue the toss with local jurisdictions. That and weird structures that are of no commercial use but high tax-avoidance use. I became a real cynic over my time. And whilst I'm right of centre on politics, on global multi-nationals I'm of the hang 'em, flog 'em school. If I was on a Treasury select committee trying to question senior Amazon execs I'd simply ask them what their bonus was based on. Oh, UK sales and results they'd probably say without thinking. But you don't make any UK sales and your transfer pricing set up means that the UK is just a delivery arm I'd reply, so that means zero is your target then is it? Oh no, what I meant was........ We should just tax them on whatever bonus plan the local MD has. To my mind the simplest way to tax, e.g. Amazon would be to total worldwide profits and then divide those by worldwide turnover and deem that to be the local profit, i.e. turnover $100 Bn, UK turnover $5 Bn therefore 5% of total profits earned in the UK. Obviously that'd earn a lot of money for accountants and lawyers arguing with HMRC about it though.
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Post by johnc on Oct 25, 2023 13:37:35 GMT
To my mind the simplest way to tax, e.g. Amazon would be to total worldwide profits and then divide those by worldwide turnover and deem that to be the local profit, i.e. turnover $100 Bn, UK turnover $5 Bn therefore 5% of total profits earned in the UK. Obviously that'd earn a lot of money for accountants and lawyers arguing with HMRC about it though. That is nearly the same as the way international sports stars and performers pay tax - I don't agree with the simplistic way they tax these people but it seems eminently sensible to use it as a basis to tax multi-nationals. No doubt the US would never agree because they want all the tax revenue for US companies.
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Post by PG on Oct 26, 2023 12:39:50 GMT
Ah, the joys of transfer pricing. ... To my mind the simplest way to tax, e.g. Amazon would be to total worldwide profits and then divide those by worldwide turnover and deem that to be the local profit, i.e. turnover $100 Bn, UK turnover $5 Bn therefore 5% of total profits earned in the UK. Obviously that'd earn a lot of money for accountants and lawyers arguing with HMRC about it though. In theory that works, but Amazon put all their European sales through Luxembourg (I think?), so UK turnover is just based on a cost + arrangement (transfer pricing again...). You'd have to tax multinationals on the value of deliveries into each country, rather than turnover.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 26, 2023 14:14:21 GMT
To my mind the simplest way to tax, e.g. Amazon would be to total worldwide profits and then divide those by worldwide turnover and deem that to be the local profit, i.e. turnover $100 Bn, UK turnover $5 Bn therefore 5% of total profits earned in the UK. Obviously that'd earn a lot of money for accountants and lawyers arguing with HMRC about it though. In theory that works, but Amazon put all their European sales through Luxembourg (I think?), so UK turnover is just based on a cost + arrangement (transfer pricing again...). You'd have to tax multinationals on the value of deliveries into each country, rather than turnover. Tax them 5% on the value of all deliveries made in the UK, payable before they argue for any rebate from HMRC.
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Post by woofwoof on Oct 27, 2023 12:33:03 GMT
Many people who voted for Brexit wouldn't consider themselves "far right" or anything like it. People like me. I was a traditional Labour voter from a working class and traditionally Labour voting area which voted decisively for Brexit. As did many similar areas and people. To link people like this with anything "far right" is simply wrong. However the definition of "far right" nowadays seems to include anyone who isn't a member of Hamas. Tongue in cheek but you get my point. I'm afraid you've demonstrated everything that's wrong with modern society, from social media keyboard warriors all the way to those in Westminster setting the rules under which society lives. There was no mention by me of Brexit at all: I pointed out the reason for the Conservatives calling a referendum. I did not mention any Brexit voters from any historical political background at all (although the figures for votes in traditional Labour constituencies showed at the Boris Johnson election that the "foreigners are being nasty to you" approach had some tangible effect and anyone that thinks otherwise is lying to themselves) because there is no black and white; them and us; two sided argument for the running of a nation of 67M people yet that is how everything in society is approached. Some examples: You're a homosexual yet you refuse to accept that transexuals can be women in the same sense as a woman born with no Y chromosome - you're a TERF and need to be killed. You're a white person in a fight with a black person; you defend yourself robustly and injure the other party. The argument was about a girl / spilled drink / football but you are a racist. You think that carpet bombing the civilian population of Gaza is atrocious - you're an antisemite. You think that taxing the better off more is going to result in the flight of wealth and loss of tax income - you're a greedy capitalist. You think that making sure that the wealthy pay their share of tax yet can maintain their lifestyle - you're a raving Marxist. As to the remark about the "far right" and Labour voters, Labour being the party of socialist ideals, the power of the common man and the rights of workers - the National Socialist German Workers' Party was exactly that. Apparently they were also "far right". Sorry if I've come across as a bit bate-y in this post, but this country is in a shocking state and even if, as I said, Count Binface became the leader of the ruling party it couldn't be any worse than the current shower of utter shit. That coming from a reasonably well-off boy from a Surrey schooling background that's quite some criticism. Oh dear, but you clearly alluded to the Brexit referendum. No, I'm not lying to myself, at least not about my own views on racism. I'm married to a none white immigrant for FS. As to the rest as it relates to me, water off a ducks but I do think this post of yours goes too far, makes too many jumps and needlessly so. Maybe take a look in the mirror and reflect on why you posted like this.
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Post by LandieMark on Oct 27, 2023 22:04:45 GMT
You've chosen to take the comments personally. Back off and reread what was said. You're out of order.
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Post by Big Blue on Oct 28, 2023 17:56:36 GMT
You clearly need to understand that you’ve jumped to a conclusion based on some defensive mechanism. My actual words were ( go back and have a look) “The Conservatives forced the entire country to vote on a matter to resolve a decades-old internal party argument; they knee-jerk reacted to the far right because they feared a politician that had never won a parliamentary seat ever”
The reference to the referendum related wholly to a long known internal Conservative Party rift, predating almost all, if not all, of us on this forum. The second point related to the party’s shift to the right and the cause of it. There can be no argument that the party moved further right (towards nationalism) and the party itself acknowledged that this was required to avoid losing votes to whatever Farridge called his Nazi party wannabes that week. If you doubt my point about voting numbers in the Red wall seats, that can be looked up to see how many votes became blue because of the positioning, perceived or otherwise, of the parties on nationalism. So the needless jump is entirely yours, including in your latest post where you automatically align nationalism with racism. My wife is very white and the Slavic bloodlines are likely purer than any Western European ones. My mother has “mixed race” on her birth certificate and was born in Cape Town in 1940. The former has suffered overt nationalism from Soviet Russians, Magyar and Brits in her lifetime. The latter - being mixed race in 1940s and 50s South Africa - I’ll let you imagine.
Firstly, don’t take offence at posts that aren’t aimed at any individual: I didn’t suggest anyone here voted in any manner based on a shift towards nationalism by the ruling party. Secondly, certainly don’t try and take the high ground because you’re not racist and have a foreign wife. That’s just normal.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2023 22:51:52 GMT
I haven’t decided what to do. There isn’t one party that I actively want to vote for. Which is actually quite upsetting.
I’m not sure I wouldn’t be happiest with a hung parliament to avoid anyone arguing that they had a strong mandate for anything.
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Post by PetrolEd on Oct 31, 2023 11:54:58 GMT
It'll be the first time of spoiling the ballot paper for me. Each is a disaster. Went yellow last time due to brexit and I still haven't got over that. I can't see any of the current lot improving the lives of the average person. I'm in one of those pointless districts where we'd vote a donkey in blue into power
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 31, 2023 12:06:11 GMT
It'll be the first time of spoiling the ballot paper for me. Each is a disaster. Went yellow last time due to brexit and I still haven't got over that. I can't see any of the current lot improving the lives of the average person. I'm in one of those pointless districts where we'd vote a donkey in blue into power You'd think. I'm in Chelsea & Fulham, which is pretty true blue, but apparently our MP (Greg Hands, Tory Chairman) is considered at risk this time around.
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Post by Alex on Oct 31, 2023 17:15:18 GMT
It'll be the first time of spoiling the ballot paper for me. Each is a disaster. Went yellow last time due to brexit and I still haven't got over that. I can't see any of the current lot improving the lives of the average person. I'm in one of those pointless districts where we'd vote a donkey in blue into power Same here in Horsham. The only way Jeremy Quinns seat would be safer were if you were to chain him to it! I voted yellow last time too knowing it was a pointless vote but I at least felt the need to represent myself as not accepting him regardless of anything him or his party might do.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 1, 2023 7:46:56 GMT
I am not a fan of this government, but I'm even less a fan of the Labour party. I am really scared for what they will do to people like us and the country in general. As retired people without a nice index linked government backed pension, we rely on our pension pot and our investments to live. Both of these will be prime targets for Labour once they do the few weeks in "there's-no-money-emergency-budget-rip-up-their-manifesto-commitments-on-tax-and-have-at-it" volte face. I expect to see NI expanded to include areas of income currently not covered - in the name of fairness of course. The left are just gagging to introduce some form of wealth tax or increase other taxes on people who have the temerity to own stuff or have money. I'm not a fan of Labour. I would not trust them as far as I could throw them. “No, you don’t need to worry about your pension, Mr. Bond: we expect you to die.” From the Covid enquiry.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 2, 2023 23:12:52 GMT
You'd think. I'm in Chelsea & Fulham, which is pretty true blue, but apparently our MP (Greg Hands, Tory Chairman) is considered at risk this time around.
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