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Post by Big Blue on Jun 30, 2023 16:06:39 GMT
Getting annoyed at these drivers complaining about the imposition of track limits. If it was Monaco they’d all be in the wall so they should all STFU and drive within the lines.
Best drivers in the world? Like fuck.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 16:17:11 GMT
Track limits have been an elastic band for a long time, some are and some are not enforced. Some in the race but not in quali or vice versa.
Why have a defined track at all in that case. Slap the prissy folk around the chops and if they do not like it, they can race lawn mowers or deck chairs.......
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Post by PetrolEd on Jun 30, 2023 20:40:05 GMT
To be fair I have some sympathy as they are made to look a bit amateur by having their times deleted. If you don’t push 100% in the last 2 turns and you lose 2/10ths you go from 5th to 16th. Still it’s all good for us viewers as it gives the potential for a mixed up grid.
The cars move around quite a bit with the Lower downforce so harder to control.
They should just get rid of track limits, if there’s tarmac you might as well use it. Watching the Indy cars at Austin last year they ditched track limits and it made a much better race.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 20:55:49 GMT
Problem is, drivers then do a Max and come back on the track taking overtaing cars out or avoiding the overtake.
Without track limits, why have a designated track at all, just use ovals?
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 1, 2023 11:04:50 GMT
Problem is, drivers then do a Max and come back on the track taking overtaing cars out or avoiding the overtake. Without track limits, why have a designated track at all, just use ovals? That makes no sense. I’m not suggesting you straight line the chicanes although it would make the design for next years cars more interesting
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2023 11:32:57 GMT
What I am saying is that there are defined track limits and track design is the same for everyone, it's the purpose of race car design to go round them as quickly as possible. Ignoring the track and making it up as you go seems to be what you are saying. Go outside the track? No problem, who cares?
A slippery slope to drag racing imho, who needs corners at all?
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 1, 2023 11:47:15 GMT
What I am saying is that there are defined track limits and track design is the same for everyone, it's the purpose of race car design to go round them as quickly as possible. Ignoring the track and making it up as you go seems to be what you are saying. Go outside the track? No problem, who cares? A slippery slope to drag racing imho, who needs corners at all? But they already do it at many circuits F1 visits because it’s pointless policing track limits especially in the last 2 turns at Austria. Stick a gravel trap or piece of grass there if you don’t want drivers to use it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2023 11:58:13 GMT
Agree with that point, to an extent. If gravel or sand were there it would not happen. Fix the regs and the tech rules and we will have better racing. Again, IMOHO.
If the FiA cannot be bothered to police the rules they are out of a job and irrelevant.
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Post by Alex on Jul 3, 2023 8:05:45 GMT
What I am saying is that there are defined track limits and track design is the same for everyone, it's the purpose of race car design to go round them as quickly as possible. Ignoring the track and making it up as you go seems to be what you are saying. Go outside the track? No problem, who cares? A slippery slope to drag racing imho, who needs corners at all? But they already do it at many circuits F1 visits because it’s pointless policing track limits especially in the last 2 turns at Austria. Stick a gravel trap or piece of grass there if you don’t want drivers to use it. Well it looks like it caused such a problem the stewards weren't actually able to keep up with the number of infringements. I'm all for drivers pushing it to the limits but on a circuit like this that means there a going to be times when they go over the white lines because there's always going to be moments when physics gets in the way of staying within the lines. Personally I'd prefer that if they don't want drivers to go over the lines the run offs should have high friction surfaces so that there's a physical penalty of losing speed and therefore the quickest way to complete the lap will not involve going to the very edges of track limits. That's much more preferable to constantly having penalties being given out in what appeared this weekend to be a bit of a haphazard way with some drivers being penalised and others seeming to get away with it with the inevitable post race whinging that later ensued. It's no better than all the silly delays we now have in football after every goal where they spend 10minutes studying replays with a magnifying glass to check whether a player had a fingernail offside. It's not the drama of sport it's just tedium.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 3, 2023 8:50:43 GMT
But they already do it at many circuits F1 visits because it’s pointless policing track limits especially in the last 2 turns at Austria. Stick a gravel trap or piece of grass there if you don’t want drivers to use it. Well it looks like it caused such a problem the stewards weren't actually able to keep up with the number of infringements. I'm all for drivers pushing it to the limits but on a circuit like this that means there a going to be times when they go over the white lines because there's always going to be moments when physics gets in the way of staying within the lines. Personally I'd prefer that if they don't want drivers to go over the lines the run offs should have high friction surfaces so that there's a physical penalty of losing speed and therefore the quickest way to complete the lap will not involve going to the very edges of track limits. That's much more preferable to constantly having penalties being given out in what appeared this weekend to be a bit of a haphazard way with some drivers being penalised and others seeming to get away with it with the inevitable post race whinging that later ensued. It's no better than all the silly delays we now have in football after every goal where they spend 10minutes studying replays with a magnifying glass to check whether a player had a fingernail offside. It's not the drama of sport it's just tedium. Agreed, you want the result at the Chequered Flag to be the result. They FIA should have seen this problem. Agreed you should have track limits in qualifying as it adds to the entertainment but the opposite is true of the race. Apparently as the motorbikes use the Red Bull Ring they can't put gravel down and tarmac was specifically asked for. I'm assuming its a characteristic of the new cars that they move around a lot more and therefore hard to place but given Ocons penalty count he must have been off the track every lap.
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Post by Alex on Jul 3, 2023 12:42:21 GMT
Surely they can find a better solution through. The cars are fitted with pretty sophisticated GPS tracking these days so perhaps have a system that detects when a car goes out of the track limits on a corner and knocks 100hp from their motor for the first few seconds of the straight or disables their DRS for the rest of the lap. Just enough to reign back any advantage they might have gained but without disrupting the race or mucking about at the end with working out time penalties. You can still have it only work when completely over the lines which will then require the drivers to be extra skilled in their driving to make the most of the limits without going over. The best drivers will still be able to push the car to the limits.
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 3, 2023 13:35:08 GMT
Marksmen on top of the main grandstand shooting their tyres if they go off is one solution. Mines laid on the outer edges where the leftmost wheel would go is another.
Seriously, the downhill approach and camber are the issue. The old corner was a 170° single turn and those final two turns have been squashed in to the space a bit. The natural topography leant itself to the sweeping right hander and the bit where they run off should be the outer edge of a parabolic turn leading on to the start-finish straight.
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Post by Tim on Jul 3, 2023 14:36:59 GMT
Perhaps they could go back to using gravel traps that are just across the kerb?
If they're worried about the cars digging in and overturning then have a word with Merc - they had those pop-up rollbars on the SL in 1989. They could fit pop-out stabilisers to the cars.
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Post by johnc on Jul 3, 2023 15:08:30 GMT
They could easily use technology. PalmerSport have a yellow line on the outside/inside of the kerbing and if any of the bodywork passes over that yellow line the time for that lap is erased. It stops people running wide or taking massive leaps right over the kerb on the inside - they have had it for years. Maybe F1 just want to keep the manual control so that they can punish whoever they feel deserves a bit of a kicking each week.
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