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Post by alf on May 16, 2023 10:36:22 GMT
Does anyone else (most likely of a similar age to me and older) wonder this - how would you feel if you only ever owned cars from now on, that were already made? For a few years already, ICE cars have had little development, and suffered heavier floorplans designed to cope with EV. With the odd exception, there is little progress there - all the money is spent on EV and tat like lane departure warnings. So - especially if you need a car less as a work/family tool, and do less mileage than you used to, can you imagine the rest of your life with cars already built? I can, for sure. Nothing on any of my last few cars, when sold with 6-figure mileages, seemed to be of any genuine concern. Lack of warranty availability - ones that are likely to pay out anyway - is an issue but the odd big job will be massively offset by losing less in depreciation. You sort of get a feel for cars when you have had them a while, and I'd happily take the Boxster - 17 years old - across Europe. There seem to be loads of very well cared for, low mileage, enthusiast's cars out there, and also historically there have been plenty of "snotters" as well. Maybe a harsh phrase as a pretty decent high-range car from a volume manufacturer is often a very good car and relatively cheap, just not fashionable. I could certainly imagine running an old Porsche or similar, alongside something newer and more mass market, as a 2-car solution and being pretty happy with it, while I can find fuel for them! Say I'm driving another 30 years or so, the mass market car might be harder to find, but then I may only need the enthusiast one by then  This, by the way, was an extension of the thought that my next car is out there already, being driven by someone, as I buy SH. In reality as I work on the fringes of EV/decarbonisation I can see my main car being EV or hybrid before long if I stay in that field, probably not through choice. |
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Post by Tim on May 16, 2023 11:20:44 GMT
When I bought the 430 a couple of years ago it was in my mind that it'd do me for at least 10 years - my mileage on the main car had dropped to around 10k p.a. and hybrid working would keep it at that sort of level.
Potentially a relatively unstressed 3 litre diesel should be good for in excess of 200k miles (in my mind at least) so buying a car with 20k on it would be fine and I accepted at purchase time that the car will probably have zero residual value at the end of that 10 years.
I'm happy to see that prices of, for example, the Nissan 370Z are returning back to sensible levels as I still want another one of them and obviously it's going to be 'already made'.
It's another car I see as being able to last for a long time with, hopefully, minimal histrionics.
As an aside a few years ago my brother in law drove a 16 year old, 190k mile BMW 530d with minimal history from Perth to Prague in the height of summer and had no issues.
In fact it did the journey again a few months later and was driven all the way back by Mrs Tim who commented that even the massage seat still worked perfectly.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 16, 2023 11:26:58 GMT
When I bought the 430 a couple of years ago it was in my mind that it'd do me for at least 10 years - Why is it I thought you'd bought a Ferrari and how the hell did I miss that thread. Only want currently thats in budget is a used Giulia QV or if I'm being sensible one of the new M240i. The new Mustang appeals but I bet it'll be expensive, like 70K when it comes over which will kill that idea. No problems foreseen for the next 10 years but not sure how I'd feel when I'm 70 driving around in a 30 year old Giulia as a daily. |
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Post by Tim on May 16, 2023 11:29:41 GMT
When I bought the 430 a couple of years ago it was in my mind that it'd do me for at least 10 years - Why is it I thought you'd bought a Ferrari and how the hell did I miss that thread. Only want currently thats in budget is a used Giulia QV or if I'm being sensible one of the new M240i. The new Mustang appeals but I bet it'll be expensive, like 70K when it comes over which will kill that idea. No problems foreseen for the next 10 years but not sure how I'd feel when I'm 70 driving around in a 30 year old Giulia as a daily.  I have thoughts of a used Giulia QV and a Mustang as well although it'd be aa used Mustang - I see Bullitts are available from just over £40k...... |
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Post by clunes on May 16, 2023 11:57:28 GMT
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Post by Blarno on May 16, 2023 12:12:41 GMT
As long as a steady stream of 330d Tourings are available, I'm happy.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 12:14:27 GMT
Simply piy, they have. Plenty of cars out there that will see my driving days out.
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Post by alf on May 16, 2023 12:17:43 GMT
See my comments on Guilia QF ownership in another thread - the car seems damn near perfect to me (even has decent ride quality that would suit the UK). I'm really worried about the longer term costs especially as it uses Ferrari parts bin parts. And who knows how well its really made, we'll see - I expected them to depreciate heavily, that would have made the risks more worthwhile.
My main Giulia issue is.... The XFR! It's damn near as quick, also RWD/playful handling/decent ride quality. It's worse on a track but who tracks cars like this bar journos and the very rich? For my use - mostly long journeys - the XFR is very likely better, and they are pretty bulletproof, the engines especially. And not expensive to run.
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Post by Roadrunner on May 16, 2023 13:06:26 GMT
Not only could I imagine only owning cars which have already been built, I have already come to the conclusion that this could very well be the case. I am in no hurry to replace either of our modern cars, both of which have very low mileage for their age and are in tip top condition. I would rather spend money on keeping them going in the future than change to an EV full of tacky Chinese touch screens.
As you all know, my most favoured cars were all built a long, long time ago; so any spare cash spent on cars for fun would go on vintage or classic stuff.
Of course, all this depends upon the availability of suitable fuels and us not being too heavily penalised for choosing to save the planet by maintaining existing vehicles rather than using scarce resources to build new ones.
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Post by Stuntman on May 16, 2023 13:09:06 GMT
I will very happily keep the cars I have for the foreseeable future. Can easily see myself still owning the Cayman and the Yaris in 15 years' time.
The M3 is 14 years old now and has given me very little trouble over the years. It still drives well and looks great to my eyes. It's big enough and fast enough for everything that I need, and it will only get replaced if it breaks beyond economic repair.
Maybe one day I will own an EV but for now, I'm very happy with what I have.
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Post by Stuntman on May 16, 2023 13:11:51 GMT
I could easily cope with this - there are so many good cars out there that could form an interesting 'garage' (2/3 car solution) for the next 2-3 decades as long as you looked after them and spread the mileage around a bit.Exactly my approach. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 13:31:47 GMT
Not only could I imagine only owning cars which have already been built, I have already come to the conclusion that this could very well be the case. I am in no hurry to replace either of our modern cars, both of which have very low mileage for their age and are in tip top condition. I would rather spend money on keeping them going in the future than change to an EV full of tacky Chinese touch screens. As you all know, my most favoured cars were all built a long, long time ago; so any spare cash spent on cars for fun would go on vintage or classic stuff. Of course, all this depends upon the availability of suitable fuels and us not being too heavily penalised for choosing to save the planet by maintaining existing vehicles rather than using scarce resources to build new ones. Least I heard is that Porsche and possibly Merc, would have the alternative fuels they have developed on hand for their clients. I imagine any interesting machinery would also get a pass. |
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Post by PetrolEd on May 16, 2023 13:56:28 GMT
Not only could I imagine only owning cars which have already been built, I have already come to the conclusion that this could very well be the case. I am in no hurry to replace either of our modern cars, both of which have very low mileage for their age and are in tip top condition. I would rather spend money on keeping them going in the future than change to an EV full of tacky Chinese touch screens. As you all know, my most favoured cars were all built a long, long time ago; so any spare cash spent on cars for fun would go on vintage or classic stuff. Of course, all this depends upon the availability of suitable fuels and us not being too heavily penalised for choosing to save the planet by maintaining existing vehicles rather than using scarce resources to build new ones. Least I heard is that Porsche and possibly Merc, would have the alternative fuels they have developed on hand for their clients. I imagine any interesting machinery would also get a pass. Ha, I hope its not dealt with via Porsche. Can you imagine the markup and that's before you get the dealer telling you how worthy you are/are not to have their liquid gold. May i suggest sir buys the new electric Cayenne and Boxster before we will let you anywhere near the synthetic fuel pump. |
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Post by Martin on May 16, 2023 19:17:39 GMT
I’m not there yet. I’m fairly sure I’ll own a few more cars that haven’t been made yet.
I’m unlikely to buy anything brand new for the foreseeable future as I don’t have the patience, when I make my mind up and have mentally spent the money I couldn’t wait more than a couple of months and I’d want exactly the right spec, which still isn’t guaranteed at the moment.
Maybe there will be a point when I want to keep a car I love for a long time, but that will only be when the options become less interesting / desirable. I usually start to get the new car itch after not much more than 2 years…… Not because I don’t like the car anymore, it’s because I like cars in general and want to experience something different. My requirements change over time as well.
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Post by ChrisM on May 16, 2023 21:20:20 GMT
As I said very recently somewhere else on this forum, I hope I die before I'm forced to have an electric vehicle. Pretty sure that I'm well over half way through my life so I'd be prepared to settle for having cars that have already been built.
However, will the spares still be made to support their miantenance and repair? I drove alon the M3, round the M25 and up the M1 on Saturday (and made the return journey) to visit elder daughter in Northampton. Usually when I make a journey like that I will see several Fiestas of the same shape and colour as mine; This time I only saw one, and that was a 3-door not a 5-door..... so are some comparatively new cars going out of circulation aready?
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Post by racingteatray on May 16, 2023 22:21:07 GMT
To the original question, I can’t see that being a major problem provided I am still allowed to drive them!
I’m not a big one for keeping cars for ages because there are lots of cars I’d like to own and I’m not in a position to just keep them all!!
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Post by Tim on May 17, 2023 7:10:01 GMT
Least I heard is that Porsche and possibly Merc, would have the alternative fuels they have developed on hand for their clients. I imagine any interesting machinery would also get a pass. Ha, I hope its not dealt with via Porsche. Can you imagine the markup and that's before you get the dealer telling you how worthy you are/are not to have their liquid gold. May i suggest sir buys the new electric Cayenne and Boxster before we will let you anywhere near the synthetic fuel pump. The test plant in Chile (?) is owned and run by Exxon, not Porsche. I expect that if synthetic fuels are given the proper go ahead it'll be the oil companies that produce them. I hope! |
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Post by LandieMark on May 17, 2023 7:15:56 GMT
I don't think it would bother me in the slightest. I have very little interest in modern stuff, it has to be said.
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Post by chipbutty on May 17, 2023 8:03:21 GMT
I think it’s going to be exciting to see how electric vehicles develop over the years - there is a huge amount to like about them (quietness, mind altering acceleration, new levels of road holding, different styling, etc) and if we can get to the stage where battery and renewable energy tech means they are lighter, more efficient and I can charge one from my own solar array and mini windmill - then I am even more on board. The whisper quiet powertrain and infinitely variable torque mapping possibilities will mean I can select exactly what noise I want my EV to make and I think Toyota are already working on a manual gearbox that in conjunction with the appropriate software will mimic any powertrain combination you can think of.
However - what I am absolutely not on board with is the level of restriction that will likely go hand in glove with future EVs. Any type of speed restriction or speed monitoring is just not acceptable, neither is a suite of safety systems that can’t be disabled (lane keep assist, autonomous only cruise, etc). I will resist for as long as is possible.
As regards autonomous driving - either the car does it all itself and all I have to concern myself with is watching youtube or reading a magazine - or I do the driving and Hal 9000 can fuck off. The complete and utter pointlessness of the current autonomous solutions that demand you are paying attention at all times is beyond ridicule (and rather scary if you read the Pistonheads article where a BMW had a meltdown and decided to stop in the fast lane and shut the engine off).
What will determine your ability to resist the above for as long as possible depends on Government policy - will the Labour/Limp Dick powershare in perpetuity want to tax my V8 into the ground or physically stop me from using it at all in 10 years time ? God only knows.
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Post by alf on May 17, 2023 9:03:07 GMT
As regards autonomous driving - either the car does it all itself and all I have to concern myself with is watching youtube or reading a magazine - or I do the driving and Hal 9000 can fuck off. The complete and utter pointlessness of the current autonomous solutions that demand you are paying attention at all times is beyond ridicule (and rather scary if you read the Pistonheads article where a BMW had a meltdown and decided to stop in the fast lane and shut the engine off). This is a very good point, which I was thinking last night as I drove the A5 back from Gatwick, on return from some days in and around Berlin. I was struggling with the speed warnings and cruise control settings on a car I rarely drive, and aso realise how wedded I am to the TomTom navs I use (largely for speed camera and traffic warnings). I was wondering what it would be like in a household of a few cars, where they all had differing levels of automation - say one has adaptive cruise control, one has a hands-off motorway facility, and one has full automation. I think it will be total carnage, as will a mix of human and computer driven cars on the road. I get that computers will ultimately do it a lot better than us - they won't try and text on their phones, block/race each other, drive tired/drugged/emotional/without glasses. But I happen to enjoy driving rather a lot, so I'm glad I'm the age I am in that respect! |
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Post by johnc on May 17, 2023 10:18:21 GMT
I could easily see myself in cars that have already been made. There is little that excites me in the new car market and in any case the prices have become stupid.
I would love to have a Caterham or an Ariel Atom tucked away for some summer driving and could happily have a Boxster, Cayman or 911 as a daily although the M5 does a great job and has just about every toy I would want. The only other practical consideration is where do I put my golf clubs.
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Post by Tim on May 17, 2023 10:58:26 GMT
The only other practical consideration is where do I put my golf clubs. Get a locker at your club? |
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Post by Martin on May 17, 2023 12:07:44 GMT
I could easily see myself in cars that have already been made. There is little that excites me in the new car market and in any case the prices have become stupid. I would love to have a Caterham or an Ariel Atom tucked away for some summer driving and could happily have a Boxster, Cayman or 911 as a daily although the M5 does a great job and has just about every toy I would want. The only other practical consideration is where do I put my golf clubs. Doesn’t your caddy look after them? |
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Post by johnc on May 17, 2023 12:09:33 GMT
I could easily see myself in cars that have already been made. There is little that excites me in the new car market and in any case the prices have become stupid. I would love to have a Caterham or an Ariel Atom tucked away for some summer driving and could happily have a Boxster, Cayman or 911 as a daily although the M5 does a great job and has just about every toy I would want. The only other practical consideration is where do I put my golf clubs. Doesn’t your caddy look after them? If only I was that good!! |
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Post by Tim on May 17, 2023 13:49:32 GMT
See my comments on Guilia QF ownership in another thread - the car seems damn near perfect to me (even has decent ride quality that would suit the UK). I'm really worried about the longer term costs especially as it uses Ferrari parts bin parts. And who knows how well its really made, we'll see - I expected them to depreciate heavily, that would have made the risks more worthwhile. My main Giulia issue is.... The XFR! It's damn near as quick, also RWD/playful handling/decent ride quality. It's worse on a track but who tracks cars like this bar journos and the very rich? For my use - mostly long journeys - the XFR is very likely better, and they are pretty bulletproof, the engines especially. And not expensive to run. There's a thread in the Alfa section on PH about someone who bought a used Giulia QF with 113k miles on it. I can't remember all the details but I don't think the car has been problematic, although from memory the owner is quite hands on and fastidious and has uncovered a few, er, shortcuts taken on maintenance. |
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