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Post by johnc on Apr 14, 2023 13:34:24 GMT
According to What Car, the fastest depreciating car is the BMW 8 Series.
They gave this example:
Model M850i xDrive List price £111,650 36k/3yr resale value £38,950 Price drop £72,700 Retained value 34.9%
I have had a look and I think their 3 yr old car value might be a bit understated. The cheapest I can find, with high mileage is £44,495
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Post by Martin on Apr 14, 2023 14:02:30 GMT
It might still win, but that is based on list price and even in non discount times they are still knocking 25% off new ones. They aren’t a looker, but I do think a really well specced 6 month old 840i GC is a lot of car for under £60k. Like this one, which will have a list price of c£95k. Which means £71k after discount so it’s still lost a lot in 6 months! www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212122459033?atmobcid=soc4I don’t like it enough to buy one though…..  I thought a 2020 M850i would retail for more than £45k, more like low £50s? |
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Post by Tim on Apr 14, 2023 15:55:42 GMT
Aren't they all distroted by the current used car shortage anyway?
The Bentley that someone linked to in Franki's thread had only lost something like £20k in 3 years but they certainly used to be pretty catastrophic and I expect will be a disaster in the future for whoever buys it.
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Post by Alex on Apr 15, 2023 8:09:33 GMT
Best bet is to get an original 8 series. Their values are going in entirely the opposite direction!
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Post by alf on Apr 21, 2023 8:08:52 GMT
According to What Car, the fastest depreciating car is the BMW 8 Series. They gave this example: Model M850i xDrive List price £111,650 36k/3yr resale value £38,950 Price drop £72,700 Retained value 34.9% I have had a look and I think their 3 yr old car value might be a bit understated. The cheapest I can find, with high mileage is £44,495 Excellent, as I mentioed elsewhere this is on the long-list of potential future super saloons, if most of my driving in my "main" car continues to be mostly long drives, including some tramping across Europe. I used to start with basically "what has 6+ cylinders, petrol, plenty of BHP, not FWD, depreciates like a rock off a cliff and that I like". The first XFR was a suprise because unlike BMW "M's" and so on, the halo model didn't retain much more value, I was looking at the non-R V8's... M6 Gran Coupes are lovely too, but not as heavy depreciators unfortunately... |
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 21, 2023 8:56:51 GMT
I don’t like it enough to buy one though….. I thought a 2020 M850i would retail for more than £45k, more like low £50s? When I ordered Eva I considered one of these. I found a couple of nearly-new / demo cars with the right spec and colour. However, like Martin, don't like them enough to spend money on them. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 21, 2023 11:21:34 GMT
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Post by Martin on Apr 21, 2023 11:28:19 GMT
I’ve been looking at M5s as it would be a really sensible option in theory, certainly something I could use all the time for work without any issues. You can get the right spec (comfort and tech plus packs) new / nearly new for sub £100k (£96k in stock unregistered), but at that level the £ depreciation over 3 years would be more than a 911. I’d guess at least £50k over 3 years.
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Post by franki68 on Apr 21, 2023 12:38:45 GMT
Very powerful new 4 door saloons are usually a fantastic way to lose vast amounts of money.They do however make cracking used buys .As Ed observed a new m5 comp is list 130k which is insane ,but then I think all prices are just ridiculous currently.
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Post by johnc on Apr 21, 2023 16:26:51 GMT
Mine cost only a small amount more than half of the list price of a new M5 Competition and that was 4 years ago. It is totally mad pricing and I really can't understand people parting with £90K/£95K for a moderately specced new M3/M4. Two years old they are now retailing in the low £60K's. On a 4 year PCP the GFV is mid £30K's so that is a near £60K bath over 4 years - £1,250/mth. Certifiable behaviour!
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Post by Martin on Apr 21, 2023 17:04:51 GMT
Mine cost only a small amount more than half of the list price of a new M5 Competition and that was 4 years ago. It is totally mad pricing and I really can't understand people parting with £90K/£95K for a moderately specced new M3/M4. Two years old they are now retailing in the low £60K's. On a 4 year PCP the GFV is mid £30K's so that is a near £60K bath over 4 years - £1,250/mth. Certifiable behaviour! Plus interest if you’re buying on PCP! I’ve just had a quick look, avoiding all the carbon stuff the list price of an xDrive Saloon with decent spec is £93k. Over 4 years / 12k miles a year, residual is £36k. At only (compared to other manufacturers) 4.9%, that’s a total cost of £68k or £1,417 a month….. Certifiable indeed. |
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Post by Martin on Apr 21, 2023 17:09:35 GMT
As a comparison, ass visibility/comfort plus/technology plus to an M5 and you get to a list price of £120k. BMW will knock £18k off that before you start negotiating, which should get you to closer to £25k off. Based on the £18k, residual is £39k so £1,300 before interest and £1,600 at 4.9%. I think it’s easily worth £200 a month more than an M3, but the starting point is too high! edit: the XM is £2,500 a month..  |
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Post by johnc on Apr 24, 2023 8:19:17 GMT
I know a couple of new car salesmen - one VW and one Renault - they both tell the same story, that they are living off the sales they made 6, 9, 12 mths ago which are now being delivered. The VW salesman needs to sell a car a day to get full earnings but right now he is struggling to sell 2 a week because he just can't put people into a similar car to the one they are trading in without an increase in monthlies of anything up to 100%. He is really worried about what will happen to his earnings in 6 to 9 months time. New car prices will need to fall or there will be carnage in dealer networks because there is no way that earnings are going to increase sufficiently fast to bridge that gap.
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Post by franki68 on Apr 24, 2023 11:42:13 GMT
I know a couple of new car salesmen - one VW and one Renault - they both tell the same story, that they are living off the sales they made 6, 9, 12 mths ago which are now being delivered. The VW salesman needs to sell a car a day to get full earnings but right now he is struggling to sell 2 a week because he just can't put people into a similar car to the one they are trading in without an increase in monthlies of anything up to 100%. He is really worried about what will happen to his earnings in 6 to 9 months time. New car prices will need to fall or there will be carnage in dealer networks because there is no way that earnings are going to increase sufficiently fast to bridge that gap. I have been looking since December at mostly used stuff ,in all that time I have seen 3 cars out of quite a lot that I 'watched ' sell ,I have noticed cars vanishing from a dealers website only to appear on another dealers website who were part of the same group.I get email stock lists every week from the likes of top 555 and the list is the same every week. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 25, 2023 5:42:21 GMT
My brothers dealership is doing similar when it comes to shuffling cars about. He's managing to sell quite a bit though. Mostly used fiat 500s at the moment which seem to still be going like the preverbial hot cakes. He's shifted so many recently that Stelantis gave him free tickets to go see Josh Widdecombe and Rob Becket at the O2 the other night! (Some might appreciate that freebie more than others).
At his end of the market customers seem to be just accepting the higher borrowing costs but I can see how somewhere like VW is struggling to shift Golf's on finance especially the sporty ones. I've hardly seen any new Rs about compared to how many new mk7s I saw on the roads a couple of years back.
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Post by Martin on Apr 25, 2023 6:18:09 GMT
My brothers dealership is doing similar when it comes to shuffling cars about. He's managing to sell quite a bit though. Mostly used fiat 500s at the moment which seem to still be going like the preverbial hot cakes. He's shifted so many recently that Stelantis gave him free tickets to go see Josh Widdecombe and Rob Becket at the O2 the other night! (Some might appreciate that freebie more than others). At his end of the market customers seem to be just accepting the higher borrowing costs but I can see how somewhere like VW is struggling to shift Golf's on finance especially the sporty ones. I've hardly seen any new Rs about compared to how many new mk7s I saw on the roads a couple of years back. Lindsay went to see them at the O2, not something I wanted to see! I think supply is still a big issue with the 8R, 18 month minimum with most waiting about 2 years to get one. The cost per month vs why people were paying a few years ago is bound to make a different though. |
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Post by PG on Apr 30, 2023 9:24:57 GMT
I know a couple of new car salesmen - one VW and one Renault - they both tell the same story, that they are living off the sales they made 6, 9, 12 mths ago which are now being delivered. The VW salesman needs to sell a car a day to get full earnings but right now he is struggling to sell 2 a week because he just can't put people into a similar car to the one they are trading in without an increase in monthlies of anything up to 100%. He is really worried about what will happen to his earnings in 6 to 9 months time. New car prices will need to fall or there will be carnage in dealer networks because there is no way that earnings are going to increase sufficiently fast to bridge that gap.That's my thinking too. But then I read that the £100k Volvo EX90 (the EV XC90) has sold out globally with deliveries being 2 years ahead. There's some really mixed signals at the moment. Never mind that a Volvo can be "worth" £100k which is pretty mind blowing in itself. |
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Post by humphreythepug on Apr 30, 2023 14:56:42 GMT
I know a couple of new car salesmen - one VW and one Renault - they both tell the same story, that they are living off the sales they made 6, 9, 12 mths ago which are now being delivered. The VW salesman needs to sell a car a day to get full earnings but right now he is struggling to sell 2 a week because he just can't put people into a similar car to the one they are trading in without an increase in monthlies of anything up to 100%. He is really worried about what will happen to his earnings in 6 to 9 months time. New car prices will need to fall or there will be carnage in dealer networks because there is no way that earnings are going to increase sufficiently fast to bridge that gap. Interesting as we've not suffered, we are still busy, we can easily move someone into a new PCP deal still when they have 12/18 months, sometimes 24, still left to run with either no increase in monthlies or minimal increase as residuals set 2 to 3 years ago are far lower than the values now, giving decent equity, I do forsee these people having issues in 2 to 3 years time though as similar equity is unlikely to be there. I'm averaging 15 to 20 new and used deals per month, April has been quieter however we do tend to feel it during the holidays. Lead times for a factory order are generally 5-6m, however some models there is always stock coming through, not enough to stockpile in the UK but enough in the system which are only a few months away, for example I sold a Clio Hybrid on Saturday, which will be in the UK in late June. |
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Post by johnc on May 1, 2023 11:31:08 GMT
Both these guys work for the shark. I wonder if they have been financing their own PCP deals and getting the GFV a bit wrong. I will ask.
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Post by humphreythepug on May 1, 2023 17:05:49 GMT
As an example, sold a Clio today current Clio is on a 2 year PCP which is up in September, equity is £4.7k, Saturday a Captur, 4 year deal, a year left to run, £3k equity.
There are plenty more like this.
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Post by Martin on May 1, 2023 17:26:03 GMT
As an example, sold a Clio today current Clio is on a 2 year PCP which is up in September, equity is £4.7k, Saturday a Captur, 4 year deal, a year left to run, £3k equity. There are plenty more like this. It makes sense that replacing a car in this price bracket is OK, as the equity will be a reasonable boost to their normal deposit. Delays the shock for 2-3 years! It’s not on a PCP but my car is worth £14-15k more than I would have expected at this point. The problem is that if I wanted to replace it LFL with a 12 month old Range Rover, that would probably be £45-50k more than I paid for mine…. |
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Post by Big Blue on May 2, 2023 8:00:46 GMT
The problem is that if I wanted to replace it LFL with a 12 month old Range Rover, that would probably be £45-50k more than I paid for mine…. I’m sure there are some folks in the London area that could help with that……. 😆 |
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Post by johnc on May 2, 2023 9:00:03 GMT
Having started this thread with the spectacular depreciation of the BMW 8 Series, I had the pleasure of being driven in an 840D Gran Coupe at the weekend when friends picked us up to go out.
All I can say is that on the inside it is a beautiful car with quality finishes and materials. It is also fairly quick, very quiet, rides very well and is extremely comfortable. From the outside it also produces a nice deep exhaust growl.
With the levels of depreciation being talked about, these cars are a bargain.
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Post by Martin on May 2, 2023 10:23:01 GMT
The problem is that if I wanted to replace it LFL with a 12 month old Range Rover, that would probably be £45-50k more than I paid for mine…. I’m sure there are some folks in the London area that could help with that……. 😆 They can take mine is ‘Part Exchange’, as my back to invoice GAP insurance is still valid! |
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