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Post by racingteatray on Mar 5, 2021 10:43:50 GMT
My mother's sister married a Scot and my mother has an amusing anecdote about spending a weekend with them as guests at the grand Highlands lair of some famous Scottish clan or other. This was back in the late 1970s I think.
As I recall her telling, it was a typically dark and filthy evening when, like something from a movie cliche, the butler sidled up to the master of the house during dinner with a dilemma. Turned out he'd gone to investigate a hammering at the front doors and had found outside a small group of soaking wet but very excited Americans in full Highland dress who proudly announced that they were "McSporrans of Clan McSporran" (I forget the actual family name). Given the hour and the weather, there was nothing for it but to agree to let them in.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 5, 2021 11:07:43 GMT
I did chuckle when I heard Scotland referred to as "The Porridge Republic of Jockistan". I remember when I worked in Edinburgh of being in charge of sorting all the applications for a new office position. It was the 80s and we had loads of CVs come through. In a meeting I was asked how I had whittled the numbers down; "Easy" said I " where they put nationality, if they put "Scottish" instead of "British" the CV went straight in the bin, we've got enough people here with chips on their shoulders without adding to it". Then I sat back and took the pelters! I was never given any HR duties again.
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Post by Tim on Mar 5, 2021 14:05:37 GMT
I was never given any HR duties again. A fine result! I was at school with someone called McSporran, the first time I heard it I thought it was a joke.
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Post by PG on Mar 5, 2021 18:40:45 GMT
As I recall her telling, it was a typically dark and filthy evening when, like something from a movie cliche, the butler sidled up to the master of the house during dinner with a dilemma. Turned out he'd gone to investigate a hammering at the front doors and had found outside a small group of soaking wet but very excited Americans in full Highland dress who proudly announced that they were "McSporrans of Clan McSporran" (I forget the actual family name). Given the hour and the weather, there was nothing for it but to agree to let them in. We have a Scottish derived surname (not Mc or Mac, way older than that, we were all thrown out as trouble makers pre the clans). There's a very fine country house in Scotland that carries our surname. So we decided to call in unannounced on a holiday in the region. As I introduced myself, I half think the lady of the house wanted to slam the door shut in my face, she looked genuinely worried. Perhaps she thought we were there to claim our long lost inheritance and turf them out into the streets.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 5, 2021 18:47:43 GMT
I think I’ve mentioned Mrs Sacamano is part of the Gunn clan, who hold the world record for the longest running blood feud with Clan Keith. Lasted from 1273 until 1973. She can hold a grudge...
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Post by Roadsterstu on Mar 6, 2021 12:26:48 GMT
Somewhere on the maternal side of my brother's wife's family are, genuinely, Blackadders.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 6, 2021 13:15:04 GMT
Somewhere on the maternal side of my brother's wife's family are, genuinely, Blackadders. Baldricks!
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Post by Roadsterstu on Mar 8, 2021 13:08:03 GMT
Somewhere on the maternal side of my brother's wife's family are, genuinely, Blackadders. Baldricks! I think that's my mother's side...
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Post by Tim on Mar 8, 2021 13:24:55 GMT
There's a law firm in Dundee called Blackadders.
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Post by PG on Mar 8, 2021 13:31:16 GMT
There's a law firm in Dundee called Blackadders. Do they advertise that they have a cunning plan for all situations?
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Post by Tim on Mar 8, 2021 14:26:09 GMT
Sadly not, they're lawyers so clearly missing a sense of humour! Their slogan appears to be "Whatever way the wind may blow. We are here for you" which makes me want to puke
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Post by michael on Mar 8, 2021 15:13:06 GMT
Sadly not, they're lawyers so clearly missing a sense of humour! Their slogan appears to be "Whatever way the wind may blow. We are here for you" which makes me want to puke That is absolutely awful
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Post by Tim on Mar 8, 2021 15:37:49 GMT
There's another Dundee based law firm that has a bunch of slogans that start "We do..." They're usually spotted on posters/written adverts (e.g. back of a bus).
Nasty, can't imagine why anyone would sign that off.
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Post by Stuntman on Mar 10, 2021 20:20:14 GMT
There's another Dundee based law firm that has a bunch of slogans that start " We do..." They're usually spotted on posters/written adverts (e.g. back of a bus). Nasty, can't imagine why anyone would sign that off. " We do practically nothing ourselves, but still charge you a king's ransom"?
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Post by Roadsterstu on Mar 10, 2021 20:47:56 GMT
"Whatever way the wind may blow. We know how to charge." Probably more accurate.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 10, 2021 20:52:45 GMT
It's one of life's certainties that nobody likes paying a lawyer. All clients seem to think we should offer our services as a public good.
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Post by michael on Mar 10, 2021 20:54:25 GMT
I got the pricing structure for some legal work recently which included £110ph for the secretary. I’m assuming they aren’t paid that?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 21:53:05 GMT
No more than the trainee who services your car does either.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 10, 2021 22:46:58 GMT
I got the pricing structure for some legal work recently which included £110ph for the secretary. I’m assuming they aren’t paid that? I'd assume not many legal secretaries receive what would amount to a six figure salary. Rates aside, it's a little odd for a client to be charged for work done by a secretary. I suppose there may be circumstances where it happens, but we certainly don't in my line of practice.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 11, 2021 8:28:48 GMT
£110 an hour for secretarial work is quite cheap, insolvency practitioners charge theirs out at £180 an hour.
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Post by michael on Mar 11, 2021 8:42:50 GMT
I got the pricing structure for some legal work recently which included £110ph for the secretary. I’m assuming they aren’t paid that? I'd assume not many legal secretaries receive what would amount to a six figure salary. Rates aside, it's a little odd for a client to be charged for work done by a secretary. I suppose there may be circumstances where it happens, but we certainly don't in my line of practice. I’ve just had another look, not even listed as legal secretary but ‘team PA’.
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Post by Tim on Mar 11, 2021 9:06:22 GMT
I used to get charged out at 10 times my salary. That was always annoying to see when reviewing a client's books.
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Post by LandieMark on Mar 11, 2021 9:39:00 GMT
I usually have no issues paying for legal advice. I was decidedly irritated when we wanted to sell a property from one family member to another and the conveyancer we used insisted both parties be represented at £500 each, despite there being no need for the usual searches and due diligence. I would have happily paid the £500 for the transfer paperwork, but trying to charge twice was taking the piss.
I ended up doing it myself for the Land Registry fee of £25.
The junior counsel we used for the fire claim was £10k a day in court and worth every penny.
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Post by Stuntman on Mar 11, 2021 19:57:54 GMT
It's one of life's certainties that nobody likes paying a lawyer. All clients seem to think we should offer our services as a public good. I think most clients are happy to pay a professional for their services, but I dislike being charged by the hour when I have no idea if the person is actually any good at doing their job. I would not give my business to any such firm if I could get an agreed fee from another firm for actually doing the job of work, from start to finish. Price the job according to the value to the consumer rather than an open-ended bill for "time per hour, plus a margin". If a good professional can do the job in 5 hours, why would I pay a poor professional for 10 hours if it took them twice as long to do the same job? Happy to pay for the job, not for a rate per hour.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 11, 2021 22:06:47 GMT
Many professionals use time recording - my wife is a management consultant and she records her time.
But charging by the hour is increasingly uncommon. 90% of the time I give few quotes to clients. However because we still do record our time spent working on the file and have hourly rates, I use hourly rates of team members and expected hours for each time member to calculate those fee quotes using a formal pricing model.
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Post by michael on Mar 12, 2021 6:48:31 GMT
It's one of life's certainties that nobody likes paying a lawyer. All clients seem to think we should offer our services as a public good. I think most clients are happy to pay a professional for their services Selling design services can be utter hell with clients seeming to think quality happens by magic or themselves being the expert.
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Post by Stuntman on Mar 12, 2021 21:06:34 GMT
Many professionals use time recording - my wife is a management consultant and she records her time. But charging by the hour is increasingly uncommon. 90% of the time I give few quotes to clients. However because we still do record our time spent working on the file and have hourly rates, I use hourly rates of team members and expected hours for each time member to calculate those fee quotes using a formal pricing model. I agree - and in some of my previous lives I have had to do time recording and was also charged out to third parties at a rate per hour which was over 5 times what they paid me. But (and it's good that your firm does this) I expect to agree a fair fee for the completed job and not a fee based on time taken. If the consultant or firm does it in a quarter of the time that they thought it would take them - all well and good from their perspective and also from mine if I had agreed the fair quotation. I don't expect to pay more for something that takes longer. The risk (and reward) should be with the firm, not the client. This only really started changing from about 2000 onwards, although of course some people/firms will have been doing it sooner.
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Post by Stuntman on Mar 12, 2021 21:12:51 GMT
I think most clients are happy to pay a professional for their services Selling design services can be utter hell with clients seeming to think quality happens by magic or themselves being the expert. I agree, and empathise - whether while working as a contractor, or an employee as head of a specialist department (where we have detailed knowledge and the other departments have zero actual practical knowledge of what we do and how we do it) - or as a performance poet. Many people seem to want to tell you how to do your job - and yet would be utterly incapable of doing any of it themselves to any degree of quality or completeness. Just feel smug that you hold the ace of trumps. If you don't do it, they won't have it. It does make working life somewhat tedious though. My reservoir of goodwill towards some of these people has run dry some time ago.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 12:10:16 GMT
It's one of life's certainties that nobody likes paying a lawyer. All clients seem to think we should offer our services as a public good. From my experience the legal profession are easily the worst in paying their own bills! No one gets paid until they are paid was often the attitude or rather the excuse given.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 13, 2021 17:26:02 GMT
Probably because many of our own clients tend to treat us like a bank and don’t pay bills for ages until we insist.
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