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Post by racingteatray on Sept 29, 2020 14:43:11 GMT
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Post by Tim on Sept 29, 2020 15:53:45 GMT
Aside from all the awful nonsense going on with the outside I really don't like BMWs new steering wheel.
I don't know what to say about the instruments apart from 'Why?'. Tests in the old days always used to make a point of mentioning the clarity of the BMW instrument pack and now they've thrown that all away with the current ones. They're fully digital aren't they, so it would be possible to give an option of having them in the classic (i.e. legible) style?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 15:57:34 GMT
Every time I see a 1er I think "Look at the size of that conk!".
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Post by Martin on Sept 29, 2020 16:53:34 GMT
I don't like the new one either, mainly because of the way it looks because I've not driven one. I was fairly convinced we'd be buying an M140i a couple of years ago but it ended up coming a slightly distant second. The engine was great (not just the sound) but that wasn't enough to cancel out the traction issues which would have annoyed me. A lot. Even putting that to one side, it just didn't drive as nicely as the Golf, no matter what the type of road.
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Post by Sav on Sept 29, 2020 21:56:13 GMT
I think the other regressive aspect is the minimum amount needed to get into a BMW petrol six these days. The M135i started off at under 30k, the price predictably rose and then the LCI got launched, M140i etc. But the ridiculously low PCP rates cushioned the price increases for many. Now, you need to get an M240i, which is about to go out of production and is a lot more expensive. There apparently will be a 2-er Coupe with the B58, which is good.
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Post by PetrolEd on Sept 30, 2020 8:34:01 GMT
The 140/240i still has a lot of appeal, the new model has zero. I just don't get BMW currently. There is so much Motorsport, design and M DNA to fall back on and they're throwing it all out the window. I guess in the emerging markets none of this means anything but vulgarity in design is king.
How long before we go back to separate models for each market like the US, China, Europe etc. It seems Europeans, the US and the Chinese all want something different.
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Post by Eff One on Sept 30, 2020 15:30:03 GMT
I'm generally not bothered about car interior styling as long as it isn't glaringly awful and the main touch points are sound. But there's a slabby drabness to BMW interiors - in pictures at least - that I find deeply unappealing. I agree that the dials in the older car are infinitely preferable.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 30, 2020 16:51:52 GMT
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Post by alf on Oct 6, 2020 14:42:31 GMT
A potentially very interesting review that was short of words and seemed very keen not to upset the people that loaned them the M135i long termer... Isn't the new one FWD with 4WD assistance? Driven hard - on anything other than warm dry tarmac especially - and that will have a huge bearing on the dynamics compared to the older car. Most normal people - especially for the next 6 months - are going to prefer the new one but for us weirdos, the old one is a pretty unique thing in its class. Now I have access to a second vehicle with decent power, it (the A5) has reminded me how totally drama-free 4WD is - and, for my purposes, dull! The article makes it sound like they are very similar, but looks aside (including the almost wilfull dullness BMW add to the insides of their cars) they are surely very different to own and drive. Yes, RWD and lots of power has the traction issues referred to above, especially in a small car. If that car also has good feel and responds well to the driver, I'll take that all day long over the "all the power, all the time" capability of 4WD. Especially as I'm going a lot slower when I get to the next hazard, on cold wet roads - 4WD isn't going to help you brake or steer your way out of trouble if you don't respect the conditions. With my car I'm already into the territory on cold wet tarmac of even moderately sporty 4WD cars being able to outdrag me out of roundabouts and so on, and I'm having to watch it when pulling out of junctions even at a very sensible pace on cold tyres (wet or dry). Personally I'm happier slithering slowly about than driving at the quite insane speeds in very wet conditions I've seen some fast Audi's (and one R32) do recently, as if they are immortal.
I love the (outside) looks of the new car from the rear and rear 3/4, it has a sort of mini 3 series Touring look about it. I'll be kind to it and not mention the front. But it is just another expensive 4 pot hot hatch, whereas the old one will be a classic forever. And the 135i coupe before that as well - and the old NA 130i hatch. Great cars all - I know people that still hark back the last two despite having owned some very tasty things in the meantime...
The only one of these sorts of cars I see reviewed so well I want a go, is the A45AMG. Even then I'd love to have a go on a wet welsh road then hand it back - it again seems the sort of car that only delivers being driven in a way that's not great for licence or longevity, and the rest of the time is a back-breakingly stiff small car with a drony engine.
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Post by Martin on Oct 6, 2020 14:58:56 GMT
A potentially very interesting review that was short of words and seemed very keen not to upset the people that loaned them the M135i long termer... Isn't the new one FWD with 4WD assistance? Driven hard - on anything other than warm dry tarmac especially - and that will have a huge bearing on the dynamics compared to the older car. Most normal people - especially for the next 6 months - are going to prefer the new one but for us weirdos, the old one is a pretty unique thing in its class. Now I have access to a second vehicle with decent power, it (the A5) has reminded me how totally drama-free 4WD is - and, for my purposes, dull! The article makes it sound like they are very similar, but looks aside (including the almost wilfull dullness BMW add to the insides of their cars) they are surely very different to own and drive. Yes, RWD and lots of power has the traction issues referred to above, especially in a small car. If that car also has good feel and responds well to the driver, I'll take that all day long over the "all the power, all the time" capability of 4WD. Especially as I'm going a lot slower when I get to the next hazard, on cold wet roads - 4WD isn't going to help you brake or steer your way out of trouble if you don't respect the conditions. With my car I'm already into the territory on cold wet tarmac of even moderately sporty 4WD cars being able to outdrag me out of roundabouts and so on, and I'm having to watch it when pulling out of junctions even at a very sensible pace on cold tyres (wet or dry). Personally I'm happier slithering slowly about than driving at the quite insane speeds in very wet conditions I've seen some fast Audi's (and one R32) do recently, as if they are immortal. I love the (outside) looks of the new car from the rear and rear 3/4, it has a sort of mini 3 series Touring look about it. I'll be kind to it and not mention the front. But it is just another expensive 4 pot hot hatch, whereas the old one will be a classic forever. And the 135i coupe before that as well - and the old NA 130i hatch. Great cars all - I know people that still hark back the last two despite having owned some very tasty things in the meantime... The only one of these sorts of cars I see reviewed so well I want a go, is the A45AMG. Even then I'd love to have a go on a wet welsh road then hand it back - it again seems the sort of car that only delivers being driven in a way that's not great for licence or longevity, and the rest of the time is a back-breakingly stiff small car with a drony engine. I'm not sure that a diesel convertible Audi will be the benchmark for 4WD handling..... I'm a complete convert, albeit based on very limited experience. The only thing that frustrated me about the 750 was the traction control light coming on too easily when it was wet. I did sometimes enjoy feeding the power in and getting the amount of throttle just right to maximise acceleration, but not very often and I didn't try going sideways as it was a 1800kg 5m+ saloon car! I know they don't have a reputation for being as much fun as some hot hatches, but one of the things I enjoy most when driving the Golf is due to the 4WD system. Not having to worry about traction is great, but even in the dry I love the way the power transfers to the rear and tightens the line when exiting tight corners / roundabouts and you rocket out the other side. It would be different with a proper sports car, but there's no way I'd consider a 300hp+ daily driver without 4WD now. Have you seen the Henry Catchpole video review of the A45? If not, it might change your view, it certainly did mine.
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Post by Tim on Oct 6, 2020 15:05:56 GMT
One of the many things wrong with the styling of the new 1 series is the massive black fake diffuser. It's not totally atrocious on the 135i in the story but I saw a white M Sport - I'm fairly sure it was a lesser engined one - and it simply looked from a distance as if there was a large chunk of the bumper missing. It's not an attractive look so, I suppose, in that it matches the rest of the car.....
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Post by alf on Oct 6, 2020 16:02:07 GMT
I've driven various 4WD cars (hard, in inclement weather, some on track) from Nissan GTR's to Subaru STi's and Audi S3's, plus long term ownership of some. I'm sure my beef with them comes from my track driving experience - on the limit, as various track driving manuals will attest - they handle like FWD cars, only with more traction. The sensitivity of your right foot, and ability to use the traction breaking at the rear, is the single biggest part of track driving. I say this tongue-in-cheek but if your approach is "not having to worry about traction is great" - add in "not having to worry" about steering or braking either, and what are you doing exactly? Catching a bus? So yes I don't mind admitting it's a personal thing, and a very small minority of cars - including the Golf R - are said to handle in a truly adjustable and somewhat rear-led way in extremis, but you have to be going bloody fast for that to happen and I still prefer to have to do the work. Plus have an issue with the sheer speed 4WD sporty cars can reach in the hands of people needing no skill whatsoever, in poor weather. I do worry something like an A45 would bring back my 20's self - wanting to race everything everywhere - and that's not collectively a good thing for road safety For me a car that is brimming with character, at normal speeds as well as quick ones, and that rewards the driver, is the key to enjoyment. Not someone saying its the fastest A-B car. The GTR I drove on track was incredibly capable but the least enjoyable car I drove that day. This article sums it up well for me - and I know the owner of Bookatrack (who also cut his teeth on track in Caterhams) had issues with the adjustability and reward of basically all the other trackday specials available (Atoms etc) in that department before buying more Caterhams for their hire fleet: www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/lighten-why-540kg-caterham-seven-best-drivers-car
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Post by Martin on Oct 6, 2020 16:23:04 GMT
But we're not talking about track driving, which is very different to road driving and bad driving is bad driving whether that's going at silly speeds because you think you're invincible or sliding a RWD car around on the road. I agree that having a car you can really enjoy at more normal / legal(ish) speeds makes the best road car, but that means different things to different people.
You could say not having to worry about traction all the time means you can spend more time enjoying steering and braking....but I'm no queef....I just know what I enjoy and what I don't. I have as much interest in a GTR as I do the new M135i, so very little but I'd be really happy with a Caterham (really enjoyed it at Palmersport, was second only to the single seater) if I had the time and money to get on track regularly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 19:29:45 GMT
One of the many things wrong with the styling of the new 1 series is the massive black fake diffuser. A rear "diffuser" will never work when the backbox is hanging down underneath it!
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Post by Eff One on Oct 7, 2020 9:34:52 GMT
Rear-biased FWD makes sense in something hugely powerful like a 911 Turbo or GTR, but front-biased FWD just seems like excess weight to me (which, some may have noticed, I'm fairly obsessive about). I've driven and owned a fair few powerful front-drivers, all of which would break traction in the first two gears if you were lead-footed enough. But I never found it detrimental to the experience, or wished for more traction. I'd pick a Golf GTI over an R for those reasons, and if I was in the market (which I'm not) I'd look hard at the cheaper, lighter new 128ti rather than the M135i. www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bmw-guns-golf-gti-new-261bhp-128ti-hot-hatch
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2020 10:41:14 GMT
AWD, not FWD
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Post by PG on Oct 7, 2020 10:58:43 GMT
...With my car I'm already into the territory on cold wet tarmac of even moderately sporty 4WD cars being able to outdrag me out of roundabouts and so on, and I'm having to watch it when pulling out of junctions even at a very sensible pace on cold tyres (wet or dry). Personally I'm happier slithering slowly about than driving at the quite insane speeds in very wet conditions I've seen some fast Audi's (and one R32) do recently, as if they are immortal.... What sort of speeds and throttle are you using on your XFR to do all that? I must be getting very old, but the reason I love really powerful cars is that feeling of them being totally within themselves performance wise in a less is more way. The velvet glove in an iron fist approach. I boot it away from roundabouts, but if I lose traction my response to myself is that I'm driving badly and my inputs were wrong. But then I'm officially an old git..... But I do agree with you that I see far too many "hot hatches" driven in an aggressive manner day to day. Perhaps that's youth or it's AWD making people feel immortal. Have some fun, but you can do that and still be more than one inch off my rear bumper.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 7, 2020 14:38:20 GMT
I wouldn't look too hard at it. Might do terrible things to your eyes...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2020 15:41:48 GMT
I wouldn't look too hard at it. Might do terrible things to your mind... Sorry, had to be done.
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