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Post by racingteatray on Oct 17, 2019 14:32:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 14:57:11 GMT
Can't ever see me buying a new car again - at least not until electric does it all.
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Post by Blarno on Oct 17, 2019 15:10:21 GMT
Does anyone make a decent sounding 4 pot nowadays? I mean a really decent sound, like an old BDA/BDG Escort or a YB Cosworth for the turbo fans?
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Post by chipbutty on Oct 17, 2019 19:26:12 GMT
As in, why have Mercedes done this ?
There are two likely scenarios:
1) Mercedes need to reduce the total number of v8 engines sold in order to get their fleet average under 95g/km by 2021
Or, and probably more likely
2) The level of investment required to incorporate the V8 is no longer making financial sense because the predicted volumes have dropped AND because anything else you can do to help get the co2 average down is not to be sniffed at. I guess engineering the c class to only take straight 4 turbos saves a huge amount of money and helps spread the high output 4 cyl investment over more units.
As to why and where the ridiculous 95g/km average has come from, well that’s because the toss pots who dream this shit up obviously assume EVs and hybrids are made with magic and fairy dust and charged by unicorns that fart electrons.
Poorly thought out, knee jerk and clearly unfair legislation is hardly helped by weird kids from Sweden and job dodging, train surfing smellies demanding action at any cost.
In my humble opinion.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Oct 17, 2019 22:39:13 GMT
Piped V8 sounds into the cabin, farty, popping exhausts and a shit sounding 4 pot. Nope.
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Post by Blarno on Oct 18, 2019 7:31:28 GMT
Piped V8 sounds into the cabin, farty, popping exhausts and a shit sounding 4 pot. Nope. Good shout, it'll be the full parpshift spec. You won't know if it's a C63 or a Golf R/TT/Any other VAG 4 pot approaching until you see it. |
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 18, 2019 8:13:11 GMT
As in, why have Mercedes done this ? No, as in why would you buy one?
An insanely fast car that sounds shit makes no sense to me.
I'd rather have a less fast car that sounded really good.
Much more usable.
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Post by Tim on Oct 18, 2019 8:35:04 GMT
As in, why have Mercedes done this ? There are two likely scenarios: 1) Mercedes need to reduce the total number of v8 engines sold in order to get their fleet average under 95g/km by 2021 Or, and probably more likely 2) The level of investment required to incorporate the V8 is no longer making financial sense because the predicted volumes have dropped AND because anything else you can do to help get the co2 average down is not to be sniffed at. I guess engineering the c class to only take straight 4 turbos saves a huge amount of money and helps spread the high output 4 cyl investment over more units. As to why and where the ridiculous 95g/km average has come from, well that’s because the toss pots who dream this shit up obviously assume EVs and hybrids are made with magic and fairy dust and charged by unicorns that fart electrons. Poorly thought out, knee jerk and clearly unfair legislation is hardly helped by weird kids from Sweden and job dodging, train surfing smellies demanding action at any cost. In my humble opinion. You can add in point 3) They established the brand with snorty V8s but have successfully managed to widen it in recent years and now everybody wants the badge and doesn't really care what's under the bonnet (see also BMW 1 series fwd). |
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Post by PetrolEd on Oct 18, 2019 8:45:39 GMT
Of all the news I heard yesterday I found this the most depressing. Surely nobody wants 500hp and no drama, might as well buy a Tesla.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 11:29:43 GMT
Of all the news I heard yesterday I found this the most depressing. Surely nobody wants 500hp and no drama, might as well buy a Tesla. That's my thinking too. |
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Post by humphreythepug on Oct 18, 2019 15:55:22 GMT
Unfortunately it's the way of the world now.
It is very likely that there will now no longer be another RenaultSport Clio, with rumours of a Renaultsport ZOE in its place, it is just the way it is all going now.
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Post by johnc on Oct 18, 2019 17:25:01 GMT
I can see the prices of recent C63 V8's firming up until the numbskulls legislate against them by doubling fuel duty or road tax etc.
I do wonder though if this electric revolution is just a temporary diversion before Hydrogen or potentially something else slots into place as a real alternative to petrol and diesel.
....just popped up in my inbox is an invitation from BMW to test any 3 Series (Saloon, Touring, Hybrid, Petrol or Diesel) for 24hrs, so things must be getting a bit tough out there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 21:58:41 GMT
There has been talk of fermented algae from seawater. I don't see fully electric as the solution for the majority of users unless they intend to price us out of the market so there is no choice other than public transport, walking or a pedal bike.
Problem, rather like the change in duty for diesel and petrol, is that after a while the duty revenue comes right down and they have to find another way into our wallets.
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Post by Martin on Oct 19, 2019 9:57:31 GMT
I can see the prices of recent C63 V8's firming up until the numbskulls legislate against them by doubling fuel duty or road tax etc. I do wonder though if this electric revolution is just a temporary diversion before Hydrogen or potentially something else slots into place as a real alternative to petrol and diesel. ....just popped up in my inbox is an invitation from BMW to test any 3 Series (Saloon, Touring, Hybrid, Petrol or Diesel) for 24hrs, so things must be getting a bit tough out there. Must be really tough, Lindsay has just received an invitation to the Ferrari F8 launch on the 21st November! Back on topic....the V8 is an important USP, moving to a 4 pot hybrid is a terrible idea as it massively reduces the differentiation between something that should be special and all the tax specials. It’s OK to have a 4 pot in a hatchback, so A35/45 is OK, but not in a larger saloon. I’m getting used to the engine in the R and it can sound pretty good sometimes (start up and at low revs) and if you avoid race mode then you don’t get the stupid pops and bangs. But it’s not just 4 pots that suffer from that. |
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Post by Sav on Oct 25, 2019 23:18:18 GMT
Very depressing. Apart from exotic stuff sold in small numbers, the best days of the ICE have past. Now, it’s a compromised thing with ever greater environmental crap attached to make Greta Thunberg happy. And it will get worse, with Euro 7 around the corner. Mild-hybrids won’t be enough.
I’m particularly fed up with Youtube videos showing the acceleration of Tesla’s etc. Nobody on the public road is going to do that. People talk about the pointless performance of fast ICE cars, but with electric cars it’s apparently just fabulous.
I concur with others; a hybridised four pot making all sorts of fake farts holds zero appeal at all. And what’s the point of a fast C63 anyway, if speed limiters are becoming mandatory?
What are the Merc going to do in the US, they simply won’t understand why a V8 has been replaced with a four pot. Look how well the 718 is selling there….
The A35 sounds pretty okay for what it is. But with the A45, its a 50k car, I would expect something more special at that price. Somebody could bring out a 600 bhp four-pot hatch tomorrow, it would still have limited appeal.
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Post by Tim on Oct 28, 2019 9:32:38 GMT
The latest issue of CAR have a twin test of the BMW 135 hatch thing and an AMG A45 and there's a comment that when you're using the performance the A45 is actually less economical than the full-fat C63.
So, what's the point?
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Post by PG on Oct 31, 2019 18:16:23 GMT
The latest issue of CAR have a twin test of the BMW 135 hatch thing and an AMG A45 and there's a comment that when you're using the performance the A45 is actually less economical than the full-fat C63. So, what's the point? It is all emissions test driven. As your point shows, an under-stressed larger engine is often, in the real world, more economical than a super-stressed, uber-tuned smaller engine. And the big, under-stressed engine is way more relaxing to drive - slowly or quickly. |
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Post by Tim on Nov 1, 2019 9:48:31 GMT
Quite. I just remembered Top Gear proved the point with a Prius against a V8 M3.
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