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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 10:57:01 GMT
It seems that more revelations over the 737 max program have come out, what next for Boeing, restructuring, bankruptcy?
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 30, 2019 12:27:12 GMT
There is always pressure in manufacturing to keep costs down or cut costs on a design, it's not unique to Boeing.
But it is not just Boeing at fault here, it's the FAA certification processes too, as major changes were being touted as minor.
Companies should not be able to make such judgements themselves without an independent review; it's standard practice in products that are certified, for example, in the medical and marine markets, to have all non-trivial changes submitted tot he Certification Authority and they have to be approved, prior to implementation. The change to the "normal 737" to make it into a "Max" was significant and substantial, and there should have been far more regulatory oversight. The 737 is an old design anyway, and it may be that the basic certification standard has been significantly revised if you compare the requirements today to when the 737 first was declared airworthy
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Post by PG on Jul 30, 2019 13:25:04 GMT
Apart from self-certification of "upgrades", the other reason that the 737 became the 737 Max, was that pilots did not have to be re-certified as they already held certifications on the 737. And we all know how well that went.
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 30, 2019 14:01:27 GMT
^
I believe that was cost related too, like hiding MCAS from their training conversion from 737 to 737 Max.
Of course the new 737 could possibly retain some credibility (once re-certified) if it were to be renamed the 737 Verstappen edition.......
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 30, 2019 14:25:43 GMT
Boeing is far too politically well-connected and important to be allowed to fail.
After the Bombardier debacle, I've not much sympathy for Boeing, which has had plenty of generous state support from the US over the years.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 30, 2019 14:34:54 GMT
Boeing is far too politically well-connected and important to be allowed to fail. After the Bombardier debacle, I've not much sympathy for Boeing, which has had plenty of generous state support from the US over the years. They are quite clever with it; every military contract Boeing gets is well padded to subsidise their commercial business. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 14:47:27 GMT
It will be interesting to see just how badly Boeing is affected.
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Post by johnc on Jul 30, 2019 17:05:15 GMT
It will be interesting to see just how badly Boeing is affected. Ultimately there will be no impact. Americans protect their own big time and if it requires that all US airlines buy Boeing instead of Airbus then that's what will happen. Wouldn't put it past them to demand that BA also buy Boeing as part of the trade deal. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 30, 2019 17:52:40 GMT
It will be interesting to see just how badly Boeing is affected. Ultimately there will be no impact. Americans protect their own big time and if it requires that all US airlines buy Boeing instead of Airbus then that's what will happen. Wouldn't put it past them to demand that BA also buy Boeing as part of the trade deal. BA have recently signed a letter of intent to buy 200 737 Max. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 19:06:05 GMT
Easily cancelled.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 31, 2019 5:19:48 GMT
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 31, 2019 7:19:02 GMT
BA buy from Airbus and Boeing to make sure that there is price competition, and also to ensure that if one manufacturer hits trouble, that have the support of the other manufacturer. No doubt there are other reasons
(and before anyone gets too pedantic, BA don't actually buy, IAG the parent company buy or lease the planes then rent them out to Iberia, BA etc)
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 31, 2019 7:24:09 GMT
BA buy from Airbus and Boeing to make sure that there is price competition, and also to ensure that if one manufacturer hits trouble, that have the support of the other manufacturer. No doubt there are other reasons (and before anyone gets too pedantic, BA don't actually buy, IAG the parent company buy or lease the planes then rent them out to Iberia, BA etc) Willy Walsh is a notorious bottom feeder and knows the 737 Max will fly again, albeit they'll change the name slightly, so has driven a very hard deal with Boeing. Every cloud and all that. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 31, 2019 8:02:21 GMT
That story could be applied to any corporate business in any sector. Shareholder value and executive pay seems to be all important
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Post by Tim on Jul 31, 2019 11:28:17 GMT
BA/BOAC have had a love affair with Boeing going back over half a century.
The VC10 was extensively modified (and compromised to an extent) to meet an increasingly diverse list of requirements specifically for BOAC who then had to have their arm twisted to actually buy any of the things.
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