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Post by Boxer6 on Apr 15, 2019 19:55:49 GMT
Just saw footage of Notre Dame cathedral's spire collapsing into itself tonight.
I'm not a religious person at all, but I have visited it and it was probably one of the most imposing buildings of its ilk I've been inside. Very sad.
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 15, 2019 20:09:41 GMT
Can’t watch it. I was enrolled as a cub in notre dame way back when.
It’s such a beautiful building it made me rather emotional.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 15, 2019 20:43:33 GMT
God's got the hump.
Terribly sad and seems to linked to the renovation work. Didn't similar happen at Windsor Castle and York Cathedral?
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Post by Boxer6 on Apr 15, 2019 21:03:43 GMT
God's got the hump. Terribly sad and seems to linked to the renovation work. Didn't similar happen at Windsor Castle and York Cathedral? Don't forget Glasgow School of Art. Twice.
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Post by Stuntman on Apr 15, 2019 21:18:45 GMT
I see what you did there
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 21:21:34 GMT
With Macron after all his Brexit bullshit?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 21:23:10 GMT
I see what you did there Oh yeah. I had a hunch there was a joke in there somewhere. Something rang a bell.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 15, 2019 21:30:28 GMT
I see what you did there Oh yeah. I had a hunch there was a joke in there somewhere. Something rang a bell. As a Nissan Quasimodo owner I wasn't going to let that pass without comment.
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 15, 2019 21:55:24 GMT
Well not quite “finis”. Looks like the stone structure itself will survive but obviously all the woodwork, stained glass and decorative elements inside will be destroyed or at least very badly damaged.
Went to a choral service there last year. I confess that, rose window apart, it’s never been the medieval cathedral that ever grabbed me the most from an aesthetic perspective and I’m not personally feeling the sense of mourning others are mentioning, but it’s nevertheless shocking and sad to see such destruction of France’s cultural patrimony.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 16, 2019 6:20:18 GMT
I suppose, putting a positive spin on it, it'll give those lads working on La Sagrada Familia something to do when they've finished.
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Post by Ben on Apr 16, 2019 6:44:27 GMT
It's sad but it'll probably be restored.
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 16, 2019 7:18:12 GMT
Alors, c'est tres triste. Le couer de France est blesse
Sure I've been there a few times in my life on family holidays. They're already talking about 10 years to restore it so maybe I can visit it again when in retirement
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 16, 2019 7:47:38 GMT
I see a couple of French Billionaires have already pledged 300 million pounds/euros or dollars. Good for them.
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Post by michael on Apr 16, 2019 9:52:50 GMT
Horrible to see but the pictures released this morning suggest it’s less bad than expected. I also read the building had been 3d scanned previously so the restoration should be accurate. The roof construction required thirteen thousand oak trees which is a forest worth.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 10:28:26 GMT
Having seen the shocking state of the building recently (On the idiot box) with people mourning the lack of money for restoration, the fire is very convenient. It has certainly produced the 'rub o' the green' they wanted to properly restore the whole building.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 10:46:47 GMT
I'll not be very happy if the Frogs chop down 13,000 oak trees to make a new roof.
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Post by Tim on Apr 16, 2019 10:46:50 GMT
At least the majority of it is left standing unlike, say, the Glasgow School of Art which is pretty much gone despite which some want it recreated - it's hardly a restoration if you're starting with an empty piece of ground.
Given some of the sums of money pledged I wonder what recent payrises at, for example, LVMH have been.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 11:03:40 GMT
There is an opportunity to use some modern materials now which hopefully they will take, perhaps incentivising some big companies to make something of their grand claims on weight and strength. Improve the building perhaps.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 16, 2019 11:05:26 GMT
The French don't have a National Lottery Heritage Fund so many of their buildings and cultural sites have suffered from lack of maintenance and investment. They rely on wealthy benefactors and Government which hasn't been very forthcoming for many years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 11:36:58 GMT
Hence my comments earlier. very convenient and now funding is more or less assured.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 16, 2019 12:25:13 GMT
There is an opportunity to use some modern materials now which hopefully they will take, perhaps incentivising some big companies to make something of their grand claims on weight and strength. Improve the building perhaps. I hope not. Rebuilding in modern materials would be a terrible idea and future generations would not thank them for it. For a blueprint of how to rebuild using traditional materials and craftsmanship they need look no further than York Minster, when it was rebuilt after the great fire 30 years ago.
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 16, 2019 12:28:00 GMT
There is an opportunity to use some modern materials now which hopefully they will take, perhaps incentivising some big companies to make something of their grand claims on weight and strength. Improve the building perhaps. I hope not. Rebuilding in modern materials would be a terrible idea and future generations would not thank them for it. For a blueprint of how to rebuild using traditional materials and craftsmanship they need look no further than York Minster, when it was rebuilt after the great fire 30 years ago. +1, with the advantage that it will provide work for craftsmen and possibly apprenticeships for more youngsters to become fully fledged craftsmen and craftswomen for the future. I hope also that the restoration will be well documented and publicised in the fullness of time, so we can all marvel at the original building and the work that goes into restoring it.
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Post by PG on Apr 16, 2019 12:40:58 GMT
I was reading something about the York Minster fire and it was said that the fire crews there decided to force the roof to cave in by aiming powerful water jets at the weakened timbers. Once the roof actually collapsed the fire was much easier to deal with as the smoke and crucially some of the heat could escape the building. It seems the same has happened at Notre Dame. The roof caving in probably saved the rest of the building.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 17:14:49 GMT
When I talk about modern materials I mean high pressure treated wood. It is possible to have something with more strength than Oak while being lighter and more sustainable. How many decently big Oak tree's are there now? I would like some modern methods alongside the classical one's like stone masonry to give a result which is as good as the original or better and look at least as good. Not talking about steel beams here.
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Post by Boxer6 on Apr 16, 2019 19:26:07 GMT
At least the majority of it is left standing unlike, say, the Glasgow School of Art which is pretty much gone despite which some want it recreated - it's hardly a restoration if you're starting with an empty piece of ground. Given some of the sums of money pledged I wonder what recent payrises at, for example, LVMH have been. Mm, in particular The Harridan that is Ms. Gray.
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 17, 2019 6:08:54 GMT
They're already talking about 10 years to restore it With the way French builders work no surprise there. Would be able to knock it out in 5 if they didn’t have such restrictive labour rules.
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 17, 2019 7:00:31 GMT
Checked last night and it seems I Was last there 20 years ago... 1999. How time flies.
Also heard an article on the radio where apparently the first fire alarm went off about half an hour before the second, but the first one was dismissed as false as nobody could see a fire, so the emergency services were not called. Bu the time the second alarm went off, it was a little late to react.......
I'd love to see them rebuild it in the 5 years that Macron is currently talking about. I'd have thought that French bureacracy would take almost that long to approve the work
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 17, 2019 7:18:00 GMT
I find it sad that a fire at 19th century gothic church can produce donations of approaching a billion euros in 24 hours whereas a famine in Africa, starving kids in Syria etc requires weeks of TV reporting and appeals to drag in a few million donations. Something is seriously out of whack.
I would leave it in ruins as a testament to man's folly in raising up grand buildings to worship an imaginary sky pixie and spend the money on something useful.
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Post by Tim on Apr 17, 2019 8:06:19 GMT
Also heard an article on the radio where apparently the first fire alarm went off about half an hour before the second, but the first one was dismissed as false as nobody could see a fire, so the emergency services were not called. Bu the time the second alarm went off, it was a little late to react....... That's appalling. A few years ago I worked in a Category A listed building and if the fire alarm went off we were all guaranteed to be going outside and the Fire Brigade HAD TO turn out with both appliances, even if our security staff checked and it was a false alarm (of which there were many). The next 2 fire stations down the line also had to set off (our building was on an island) until told to turn back by the local guys.
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 17, 2019 9:02:30 GMT
I find it sad that a fire at 19th century gothic church can produce donations of approaching a billion euros in 24 hours whereas a famine in Africa, starving kids in Syria etc requires weeks of TV reporting and appeals to drag in a few million donations. Something is seriously out of whack. I would leave it in ruins as a testament to man's folly in raising up grand buildings to worship an imaginary sky pixie and spend the money on something useful. Not really, Notre dame is part of the family to any Parisian. If your the owner of LVMH you probably walk past it daily from your fancy apartment in the 8th to your even fancier HQ.
How much do I give to the starving of Africa compared to the local pub. On a smaller scale I put my hand in my pocket for the church roof because its a community project and one that I see the benefit of even as an agnostic.
I'm sure your as guilty as everyone for not giving all your money to those that really need it.
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