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Post by michael on Jan 5, 2018 11:44:03 GMT
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'Following a vegetarian diet could increase a person’s chances of suffering symptoms of depression, according to a new analysis.' This is logically unproven. [/quote] It says ‘could’ not ‘does’. Perhaps contact the authors of the report and offer your services? I’m sure they’ll welcome your credentials on the peer review panel.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 11:48:34 GMT
I'm not saying I'm the man for the job, just pointing out holes in the story. If I can do that, higher standards should be expected. No need to be bitchy - but then that was my mistake for clicking the 'display post' button.
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Post by michael on Jan 5, 2018 12:31:46 GMT
It seems you don’t understand what your reading. It could explain a lot of your devisive behaviour.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 12:47:52 GMT
I am not opening that one, it was a mistake to do so with the previous one.
Can I make a suggestion? Let's avoid each other as far as possible. It's pretty clear how we feel about one another, and I avoid provoking you - I'd just like you to extend the same courtesy.
I know that you said something pretty personal and that you thought would be provocative when this last happened - and not because I read it, but because someone else asked me about it. That's not really very nice, but I'm not biting or going anywhere, so please stop making the little digs.
I'll be asking Mark to ensure that anything personal said is removed.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 5, 2018 12:49:36 GMT
It seems you don’t understand what your reading. It could explain a lot of your devisive behaviour. The link was just for a bit of fun. The intention was not for it to be analysed too deeply. Any study can be pulled apart if you dig deeply enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 12:59:07 GMT
Sorry Bob, wasn't intended as a sense of humour failure. The book I am reading at present is about the misrepresentation of science in the media and it bugs me!
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Post by michael on Jan 5, 2018 14:06:53 GMT
I am not opening that one, it was a mistake to do so with the previous one. Can I make a suggestion? Let's avoid each other as far as possible. I’ll comment on what I choose. When I see you write something incorrect I’ll happliy call you out on it just as you thought you were doing with the article and just as I would expect anyone to feel they can say what they like to me. You can take it personally as much as you like but my point was simply the inaccuracies of what you said.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 16:25:10 GMT
But this is the worst line, scientifically-speaking:
'Following a vegetarian diet could increase a person’s chances of suffering symptoms of depression, according to a new analysis.' This is logically unproven. Choosing to avoid meat says a fair amount about the mindset of the person in question, and it may be just (or even more) likely that the sort of person who worries about animal welfare is also the sort of person who is predisposed to anxiety/depressive symptoms.
Just in case anyone else fails to understand why this is overstating the mark so significantly, is not complex. The vegetarians were self-reported (so the testing was not blind), and done as a one-off sampling. In other words, no predictions were made in advance, they just established that in this study (flawed for the reasons I outline, and echoed in a couple of analyses of the original and follow-on work), there seemed to be a correlation - that is all you can confidently suggest - to assert more is to rely on too little evidence. The arrow of causality cannot be derived in such a way. Now there may be causal links between vegetarianism and anxiety/depression (though as I say, the reverse is every bit as possible), but this is a poor science story as it is. I found some other surveys that suggested links too, one supported by a grant from Meat & Livestock Australia...
Having read the original study today, and the mainstream and scientific coverage, there is no doubt that my criticisms are valid. 72% of the self-reported vegans were eaters of red meat, it transpires. Now, you could easily argue that this displays no sense of humour. But is it that humourless people are attracted to vegetarianism, or that vegetarianism suppresses the GSOH. Who can tell, eh?
Sorry, Bob! Time to get back to car identification.
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Post by michael on Jan 5, 2018 16:38:56 GMT
The sample was ten thousand, not 350. Of that sample a statistically significant number of vegetarians were identified as having depressive qualities. The researchers have highlighted this accounting for variables in the population and in particular the South West factor - South West being a male suicide hotspot if not still the number one region. The researchers correctly said there could be a link with being vegetarian and depression. They did not say there is a link. They did not say a vegetarian diet causes depression. The researchers suggest more work needs to be done. The point of this research has been to open discussions about why those identifying as vegetarian may have been more likely to exhibit depressive qualities.
I think the car on the left is a Passat estate not a Toaerag. I did see a Land Cruiser in there though. I wonder if the car park had a weight limit and if insurance companies could try to get out of payments on a technicality that some cars were too heavy to be there? For the needs of clarify I’m not suggesting heavy cars cause fires.
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Post by johnc on Jan 5, 2018 17:19:11 GMT
I think I'd be depressed if all I got to eat was vegetables and pulses!
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 5, 2018 19:45:13 GMT
I think I'd be depressed if all I got to eat was vegetables and pulses! Me too! *Moderator Mode* For the avoidance of any doubt and I really shouldn’t have to say this, but this is a forum like any other and members are free to comment on whatever posts they wish. Should members not wish to get dragged in to a debate they have no wish to be a part of then they merely have to ignore that particular post and carry on as normal. I see nothing in the comments above as inflammatory. */Moderator Mode* As you were.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 5, 2018 20:42:43 GMT
^ There's always ibuprofen.....
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Post by Ben on Jan 6, 2018 15:19:00 GMT
How did we get from a car fire to vegetarianism?!?
I'm intrigued about identifying burnt out cars. Makes for a good game.
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 7, 2018 21:27:09 GMT
Purely to lighten the mood - I’ve been sent this via another source. 😂
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jan 7, 2018 21:38:56 GMT
How did we get from a car fire to vegetarianism?!? I'm intrigued about identifying burnt out cars. Makes for a good game. There was a scientific study, sometime, a while ago, possibly linking massive fires in multi-storey car parks to drivers who are vegetarians being more flatulent, thus vegetarian-owned cars could contain more flammable gases. Possibly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 12:10:59 GMT
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 8, 2018 12:25:46 GMT
Hmmm. Vanilla Black, a vegetarian restaurant in London, has no meat section on the menu. Hawksmoor, unreservedly a steakhouse, offers vegetarian mains as options.
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Post by LandieMark on Jan 8, 2018 15:50:24 GMT
We had a girl come into the pub a while back asking about vegetarian options. She then asked if they were prepared in a separate vegetarian kitchen to avoid possible cross contamination. I think the landlord politely suggested that she may be better off heading into town for a specialist establishment.
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Post by Andy C on Jan 8, 2018 19:31:56 GMT
This always makes me laugh .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 13:46:42 GMT
Something else to consider is that long term vegetarians tend to have a better grip of how to maintain vitamin and mineral levels than someone who is on a health kick or short on time/experience of the life style change. A friend who is veggie ate chicken and salmon while pregnant. She is about the most positive and outgoing person I know. We all know that generalisations are pointless and yet these studies are, studies in the pointless which serve no-one and nothing more than to obfuscate and mislead for the purposes of whoever pays for that study. Lies, damn lies and statistics.
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Post by Tim on Jan 9, 2018 15:28:55 GMT
I overheard a conversation at lunchtime where some people were discussing 'Veganuary' to go along with 'Dry January'. I presume it's giving up meat for the same month as giving up drink.
I despair.
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Post by michael on Jan 9, 2018 15:39:13 GMT
I overheard a conversation at lunchtime where some people were discussing 'Veganuary' to go along with 'Dry January'. I presume it's giving up meat for the same month as giving up drink. I despair. The Freudian slips I’d have trying to pronounce that would probably reveal too much about my state of mind.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 9, 2018 16:35:27 GMT
I overheard a conversation at lunchtime where some people were discussing 'Veganuary' to go along with 'Dry January'. I presume it's giving up meat for the same month as giving up drink. I despair. The Freudian slips I’d have trying to pronounce that would probably reveal too much about my state of mind. You'd probably have to give that up as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 13:27:22 GMT
I heard that having a mind does indeed lead to depression and mental illness but I may have been reading the idiots guide to politics at the time.
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