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Post by rodge on Dec 10, 2017 3:02:04 GMT
Anyone here invested in any of the crypto currencies? I’ve been following them for a good while and finally decided to put a few hundred dollars into various currencies 2 weeks ago. I could see that they were growing but recently had the audiobook ‘Snowball’, Warren Buffets biography and the crypto thing didn’t meet any of his ideas for investing.
Then again, it’s a different market and has a different set of rules and methods of investing, so it doesn’t necessarily follow that the principles he followed should be the same in this market.
Either way, my investment has jumped about 60% in 2 weeks. Not too bad at all... for now!
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Post by johnc on Dec 10, 2017 8:48:44 GMT
I see them as so volatile I would rather stay away. I can't help think that the "establishment" will see this alternative currency as a danger and legislate to reduce or remove its influence. Blockchain, the storage and control software and methodology behind it though is much more interesting and has real staying power. I think those who were in early on Crypto will make a fortune but it might turn out to be a bit like a pyramid selling scheme.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 11:36:10 GMT
I think the evidence of China and North Korea stealing bitcoin etc shows more risk than gain for me and I cannot afford to do that. I suppose the adage of not risking more than you can afford to lose without care is the key.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 14:25:35 GMT
It's a massive speculative bubble, and may continue to grow for some time yet, but there is a whole world of hurt waiting. There is nothing behind it which gives it value beyond that speculators buy it. They won't forever.
Not that it will bother many, but bitcoin's miners us 23terrawatt hrs of electricity per annum. In 2016, the total generated by renewables was 24.8 TW hrs. What a waste of all that effort, subsidy etc.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 10, 2017 15:38:58 GMT
It's a massive speculative bubble, and may continue to grow for some time yet, but there is a whole world of hurt waiting. There is nothing behind it which gives it value beyond that speculators buy it. They won't forever. Not that it will bother many, but bitcoin's miners us 23terrawatt hrs of electricity per annum. In 2016, the total generated by renewables was 24.8 TW hrs. What a waste of all that effort, subsidy etc. You might want to check that figure - the last time I looked at it the UK alone generated more than double that from renewables each year. Bitcoin mining does use a lot of electricity though.
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Post by humphreythepug on Dec 10, 2017 19:48:19 GMT
I've tried to have Bitcoin explained to me many times, I still haven't a fucking clue!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 20:40:00 GMT
I still reckon it is more of a pyramid special or as the Yanks say, a Ponzi scheme which to my ears sounds better.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 21:37:35 GMT
I've tried to have Bitcoin explained to me many times, I still haven't a fucking clue! Phew ! - i thought it was only me. Seems it's a form of FOREX (without the foreign) - i guess
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Post by LandieMark on Dec 10, 2017 22:28:15 GMT
I don’t pretend to understand it. Minimum £10k investment from the supposedly trustworthy brokers. A no from me then.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 8:45:29 GMT
It's a massive speculative bubble, and may continue to grow for some time yet, but there is a whole world of hurt waiting. There is nothing behind it which gives it value beyond that speculators buy it. They won't forever. Not that it will bother many, but bitcoin's miners us 23terrawatt hrs of electricity per annum. In 2016, the total generated by renewables was 24.8 TW hrs. What a waste of all that effort, subsidy etc. You might want to check that figure - the last time I looked at it the UK alone generated more than double that from renewables each year. Bitcoin mining does use a lot of electricity though. My source was the Beeb, but looking at it I think you are right, and as long ago as 2013. Tut tut.
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Post by johnc on Dec 11, 2017 8:48:37 GMT
I don’t pretend to understand it. Minimum £10k investment from the supposedly trustworthy brokers. A no from me then. I heard yesterday that my (tight as a badger's arse) Brother in law has just invested in Bitcoin. Knowing his luck he will cash out with several hundred percent in his pocket but I am not going to take a punt on something I view as too risky. I might be very wrong but it has all he hallmarks of the dotcom bubble to me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 8:57:25 GMT
It isn't a 'value' investment as it doesn't have value in an assessable way. It's 'growth', based upon what it has done and that it is fashionable now. It will go the way of all things like this - those who got in early will have made a killing - but those who climb onto the coattails, paying vastly more than those who went before, will suffer the pain.
I have no doubt that different forms of currency will take hold and become properly mainstream, but you don't expect to make a mint from currencies in a stable (relatively speaking) global market by just buying and holding and expecting the currency to do the work for you.
I also confess that from some of the smug bar talk I've heard about it, I won't be shedding too many tears when the day comes!
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Post by michael on Dec 11, 2017 10:05:04 GMT
I don't have any and I don't entirely understand them. I'm investing in areas of land at least big enough to play a game on - for that reason cryptocurrencies just aren't cricket. I suspect a lot of people will get their fingers burnt which is inevitable but it happens with investments the world over.
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Post by Blarno on Dec 11, 2017 10:30:50 GMT
I understand Bitcoin as well as I understand women.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 11, 2017 11:16:33 GMT
As I mentioned in another thread I take what are disproportionate risks on AIM as the money involved shouldn't really exist. To put it into perspective whilst on holiday in Corfu in the summer I gained £80k of share value on one day and lost £50k of it the next: it's invisible money I've never seen, smelt or had instant access to plus trying to sell overvalued shares in bulk is nigh on impossible. That said I have share certificates held online and get to vote in AGMs so play a part in the game of trying to make the businesses improve.
Bitcoin looks to me a whole lot more of a risk: it's controlled by some shady individuals; it's unregulated; someone can wipe out your holdings remotely and how are you prove they were yours? How do you spend them; change them into hard cash? If it becomes apparent that too many people will become too wealthy too soon the whole thing will collapse because as the Italian Lire showed us, if everyone has millions then those millions are worthless.
As I would for AIM investing I'd advise Rodge to take the gains out whilst they're there and look better than anything you'd ever get anywhere outside of a treble on Shergar winning another Grand National, Arsenal winning the Champions League before 2025 and Lichtenstein winning the football World Cup.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 11, 2017 11:35:57 GMT
If you're getting into it go very short term because when the music stops there are going to be some very unhappy people.
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 11, 2017 12:48:56 GMT
It's gamble.
In principle because, for reasons that I don't understand, the maximum amount of Bitcoin that can ever be issued is 21 million of them, there is restricted supply and therefore provided everybody agrees that they like them as some sort of value store, then their value could keep accelerating. Up to US$300k I read. Or not.
I have simply no idea whether that is likely or not. And for that reason I'm out. I've just not got enough spare to risk the investment loss.
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Post by Tim on Dec 11, 2017 13:26:22 GMT
On Friday I asked our Chief Investment Officer what he thought of it, given that all currencies were 'made up' at some point in their life, and his view is that since they are all linked in some way to gold then they have legitimacy but Bitcoin isn't and doesn't so at some point it will come crashing down.
My brother in law did somee bitcoin mining a couple of years ago and broke even (having spent several £000s on super fancy PCs). He tried to explain it to me then but I still don't understand it.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 11, 2017 13:32:51 GMT
The European Central Bank is currently printing, out of thin air, 60 billion Euros a month to keep the Eurozone solvent and to stop the PIGS defaulting on loans. Compared to that Bitcoin looks like quite a stable currency.
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Post by Alex on Dec 11, 2017 15:26:19 GMT
I've tried to have Bitcoin explained to me many times, I still haven't a fucking clue! I just know I should have bought a few 2-3 years ago!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 15:31:39 GMT
On Friday I asked our Chief Investment Officer what he thought of it, given that all currencies were 'made up' at some point in their life, and his view is that since they are all linked in some way to gold then they have legitimacy but Bitcoin isn't and doesn't so at some point it will come crashing down. Indeed. There is no asset-backing to speak of.
I wonder if I should create a limited number of special 'imaginary' cars. Not anything boring, backed by, you know, engineering etc, and hey presto...
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Post by michael on Dec 11, 2017 15:45:33 GMT
Does the FSA have any regulatory authority over this sort of thing or is the whole point that it's a mechanism for paying for illegal goods?
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Post by Tim on Dec 11, 2017 16:10:25 GMT
Does the FSA have any regulatory authority over this sort of thing or is the whole point that it's a mechanism for paying for illegal goods? FCA nowadays, the namechange made a significant difference in their approach (not).
I would guess that the answers to your questions are no and yes. However, if you want to confirm for yourself the FCA guidance (on anything) is in no way sleep inducing................
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 11, 2017 16:11:19 GMT
On Friday I asked our Chief Investment Officer what he thought of it, given that all currencies were 'made up' at some point in their life, and his view is that since they are all linked in some way to gold then they have legitimacy but Bitcoin isn't and doesn't so at some point it will come crashing down. Indeed. There is no asset-backing to speak of.
I wonder if I should create a limited number of special 'imaginary' cars. Not anything boring, backed by, you know, engineering etc, and hey presto...
You jest but...it's being done with cats (that staple of the interweb) already...https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/03/people-have-spent-over-1m-buying-virtual-cats-on-the-ethereum-blockchain
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Post by Tim on Dec 11, 2017 16:15:31 GMT
Indeed. There is no asset-backing to speak of.
I wonder if I should create a limited number of special 'imaginary' cars. Not anything boring, backed by, you know, engineering etc, and hey presto...
You jest but...it's being done with cats (that staple of the interweb) already...https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/03/people-have-spent-over-1m-buying-virtual-cats-on-the-ethereum-blockchain Actually the imaginary car thing has been done already by in-game content on things like Forza and, presumably, Gran Turismo. You can take a car from the game, spend hours modding and painting it and then sell it to other gamers, for real money if they want.
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Post by michael on Dec 11, 2017 16:19:52 GMT
On Friday I asked our Chief Investment Officer what he thought of it, given that all currencies were 'made up' at some point in their life, and his view is that since they are all linked in some way to gold then they have legitimacy but Bitcoin isn't and doesn't so at some point it will come crashing down. Indeed. There is no asset-backing to speak of.
I wonder if I should create a limited number of special 'imaginary' cars. Not anything boring, backed by, you know, engineering etc, and hey presto...
Similar to the XJ220? Would depend on your record I suppose...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 16:32:45 GMT
Indeed. There is no asset-backing to speak of.
I wonder if I should create a limited number of special 'imaginary' cars. Not anything boring, backed by, you know, engineering etc, and hey presto...
You jest but...it's being done with cats (that staple of the interweb) already...https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/03/people-have-spent-over-1m-buying-virtual-cats-on-the-ethereum-blockchain Maybe insanity is the new sanity. There's a classified in the back of Autocar:
61FT 61FTS G11FTS G111FTS
'Ideal number plates for a GIFT or a most valuable promotional tool for your business. Ideally sold as a complete set (sic)'
Ignoring the fact that it appears to be 'gifts from Wales' that is selling them (for which you would assume they would be priceless if the bollo above is true}, guess how much?
'£1 million pounds.' I shit you not.
Their stupidity will only be exceeded if they can find a mug who would pay that price. And not notice that you only need the £ or the word 'pounds'...
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Post by rodge on Dec 13, 2017 4:58:25 GMT
Interesting to read people’s perspectives on it. I’ve put $500 into multiple currencies over a period of 3 weeks. This afternoon, it was worth $1240. I’m not planning on putting anymore into it until I get a better idea of where it’s going. The thing I don’t like about it is that I’m buying something that has no assets. Land, shares etc can all be valued as they have, well, value. Crypto currency has no asset so to speak, but is worth what people are willing to pay for it and at the moment, people are willing to pay more than I’ve put in, so that’s good for me....
Either way, if I was to make $50 on it, I’d still have done better than at the bank!
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Post by johnc on Dec 13, 2017 7:15:49 GMT
Interesting to read people’s perspectives on it. I’ve put $500 into multiple currencies over a period of 3 weeks. This afternoon, it was worth $1240. I’m not planning on putting anymore into it until I get a better idea of where it’s going. The thing I don’t like about it is that I’m buying something that has no assets. Land, shares etc can all be valued as they have, well, value. Crypto currency has no asset so to speak, but is worth what people are willing to pay for it and at the moment, people are willing to pay more than I’ve put in, so that’s good for me.... Either way, if I was to make $50 on it, I’d still have done better than at the bank! I had a client years ago who did extremely well out of investing in small companies but he had a rule which he stuck to religiously and it has always stuck with me: when the value of your investment doubles, take out your original stake and you can't lose anything.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 13, 2017 12:39:37 GMT
This is the way to do it.....but sometimes you can't help but keep chasing the gains. 2 bag is my unwritten rule.
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