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Post by Big Blue on Nov 17, 2017 10:26:40 GMT
.... makes for this kind of insanity: Not sure if I like the fact there is a mint RS2000 out there or angry one of the coolest cars of my yoof was owned by two idiots that never enjoyed it!
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Post by johnc on Nov 17, 2017 11:46:01 GMT
The problem with buying a car like that is that it will lose a massive amount of value if it gets used and personally I would get little pleasure having it sitting in an airtight, heated garage.
It just seems a bit pointless to me.
One of the icons of my youth too.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 17, 2017 13:37:59 GMT
That's a £5k car as far as I am concerned.
I do not get it even slightly.
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Post by Ben on Nov 17, 2017 14:30:52 GMT
That's a £5k car as far as I am concerned. I do not get it even slightly. Me neither.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 15:10:40 GMT
Me neitherer.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 17, 2017 15:14:50 GMT
You can't buy one for much under £30k which proves there is a market. On the basis that this one is virtually factory fresh and they're not going to make any more, ever, I can understand why it made this amount when wealthy middle aged men were involved in bidding for it. What I really can't understand is the mentality of the original two private owners keeping it in the first place: it was just a fast Ford in 1980 and there was no real classic car market, so to speak, until the mid-late '80s and even then only rarer cars and those Fords, Austins, Rovers etc. that had real provenance.
Should I be buying a Golf R and bubble wrapping it as part of my pension provisioning?
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Post by cbeaks1 on Nov 17, 2017 15:22:38 GMT
There are far too many Golf R’s I would think.
Maybe a Racing Puma or Mark 1 Focus RS as they are not outrageously expensive.
Pistonheads have a story about that Escort that includes a link to the auction. Lots of absolutely ludicrous prices on crap like xr3i’s so the RS2000 doesn’t look that crazy.
There is a special ed Orinoco M5 that was only about £12k though. A relative bargain.
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Post by Ben on Nov 17, 2017 17:00:27 GMT
You can't buy one for much under £30k which proves there is a market. On the basis that this one is virtually factory fresh and they're not going to make any more, ever, I can understand why it made this amount when wealthy middle aged men were involved in bidding for it. What I really can't understand is the mentality of the original two private owners keeping it in the first place: it was just a fast Ford in 1980 and there was no real classic car market, so to speak, until the mid-late '80s and even then only rarer cars and those Fords, Austins, Rovers etc. that had real provenance. Should I be buying a Golf R and bubble wrapping it as part of my pension provisioning? You'll probably be better off with a Scirocco R (if there's any left) methinks.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Nov 19, 2017 19:15:43 GMT
That RS2000 is fabulous, one of my dream cars (that and a Mexico) - if I could get one for under £20k I wouldn't even hesitate, I'd be straight out with the cheque book. Unfortunately they've gone well beyond that now and while £87k is a ridiculous money, if you can afford the car you've always wanted, why not? I still can't get my head around it being owned and not driven though. What a waste.
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Post by PG on Nov 19, 2017 19:39:02 GMT
Once they get to that price it is no longer a "driving car". It's a "trading car".
Personally I hope the person who bought it uses it and rags the arse of it. But I doubt it.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 20, 2017 10:44:37 GMT
When I was in the REME at school we used to rag 1.3's around the woods and they were awesome fun so I can only assume an RS a real hoot. When even average 205 GTi's are 30k so I suppose 80k for the best Escort isn't ridiculous. Would I buy it? No way but I wouldn't by an F40 with 900 miles on the clock either. Cars are for driving and therefore you want a car that's seen action otherwise what's the point
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Post by Blarno on Nov 20, 2017 10:58:58 GMT
Shoddy reporting there, claiming it's a 1.8.
The clue is in the name: RS2000.
Remember a time when cars had legitimate engine size based badges?
As much as I love old Escorts, I could never bring myself to spend the equivalent of my first house on one. It simply isn't worth that much, it can't be. It's a massive waste of a great car and some bulging-wallet bellend is going to watse it further by shoving it in a garage until every last bit perishes and becomes one with the soil. I remember my mate's brother having a breathed on RS2000 when he was in his early 20s and they were changing hands for a grand or so (the late 90s). I paid £200 for a 4 door 1.3 GL in 1999 and it was a very tidy car that would be 'worth' over £5k now, but it was a cheap snotter for drifting around the lanes and the carpark at the college of my then girlfriend.
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Post by Tim on Nov 20, 2017 12:20:42 GMT
It's insane but we shouldn't be looking at it as car enthusiasts, more as investment people. If you have some spare cash don't put it into an ISA, buy a future collectible car instead, you'll get a better return.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 20, 2017 14:01:10 GMT
It's insane but we shouldn't be looking at it as car enthusiasts, more as investment people. If you have some spare cash don't put it into an ISA, buy a future collectible car instead, you'll get a better return. I'm looking at my "toy" car for my 50th next year. W2.0 turns her nose up at any car I point out, and was utterly dismissive of the NSR250 MC21 bikes I've been looking to add to the garage (these things are only going one way price-wise and are a hoot to ride as they basically out-corner ANYTHING on two wheels on the road). So Ferrari 430. A friend just told me of his boss, who ran it for 30 months. Traded it back to the dealer for a value equivalent to the price paid, all his service costs, all his tyres costs and all his petrol costs. So basically he ran a 430 for free. BMW E46 M3 CS. Because of the insane price of the CSLs this is the next one to launch. In Germany they're already at the €30k mark even with 200k kms. I've seen a few tidy ones at £16-20k but a few at £30k as well. BMW E92 M3 Competition spec. These are resolutely staying expensive, especially with the extended leather option. I've seen a low mileage one for £35k, ffs! Alpinas don't start to make money until they're 30 year+ old. There's a few E34s coming out of the woodwork now that will be decent investment potential if you're so minded. Any of these cars, as pointed out, it would be a travesty to own and never run as intended. The Mona Lisa was painted to be looked at, not locked in the attic. We have pictures of Dorian Grey if we want to do that....
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Post by Blarno on Nov 20, 2017 14:01:44 GMT
I can never view a car as an investment. It's a machine to be driven. If you want to invest money, buy some art and hang it on the wall. After all, you can't go to Tesco in a Monet.
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Post by Tim on Nov 20, 2017 14:44:05 GMT
It's insane but we shouldn't be looking at it as car enthusiasts, more as investment people. If you have some spare cash don't put it into an ISA, buy a future collectible car instead, you'll get a better return. I'm looking at my "toy" car for my 50th next year. W2.0 turns her nose up at any car I point out, and was utterly dismissive of the NSR250 MC21 bikes I've been looking to add to the garage (these things are only going one way price-wise and are a hoot to ride as they basically out-corner ANYTHING on two wheels on the road). So Ferrari 430. A friend just told me of his boss, who ran it for 30 months. Traded it back to the dealer for a value equivalent to the price paid, all his service costs, all his tyres costs and all his petrol costs. So basically he ran a 430 for free. BMW E46 M3 CS. Because of the insane price of the CSLs this is the next one to launch. In Germany they're already at the €30k mark even with 200k kms. I've seen a few tidy ones at £16-20k but a few at £30k as well. BMW E92 M3 Competition spec. These are resolutely staying expensive, especially with the extended leather option. I've seen a low mileage one for £35k, ffs! Alpinas don't start to make money until they're 30 year+ old. There's a few E34s coming out of the woodwork now that will be decent investment potential if you're so minded. Any of these cars, as pointed out, it would be a travesty to own and never run as intended. The Mona Lisa was painted to be looked at, not locked in the attic. We have pictures of Dorian Grey if we want to do that....
All of those listed might make you a little money but if they already have some mileage on and you use them then you're never going to make a lot.
After 10 years of ownership I reckon my M5 is worth 50% of what I paid for it, the value is going up but I know I need to spend a few £k to make it jump up - mine's a low mileage one with 82k on the clock and only has 2 owners so if it was absolutely pristine it might be worth highish teens £. It's never going to be in that condition though because I will always use it as long as I can get petrol from somewhere.
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Post by Martin on Nov 20, 2017 17:13:28 GMT
If it’s a toy and a treat for your 50th, then surely it doesn’t matter if it loses some money and/or costs a bit to run?
Based on the mileage you do in your main car, a toy isn’t going to go far each year.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 20, 2017 17:19:53 GMT
If it’s a toy and a treat for your 50th, then surely it doesn’t matter if it loses some money and/or costs a bit to run? Based on the mileage you do in your main car, a toy isn’t going to go far each year.My ultimate dilemma. Around 4k per annum thus far. The most realistic "toy" would be the NSR250 as I'd actually use it on sunny days to get into work. Car-wise I'd probably be better off chopping the Gorilla in for a Scaglietti, which would still only do 4k per annum and be a toy and a family car. The reaction when I flashed a TR3 up in hope needed to be recorded to be appreciated. I like shiny things. Tragic bastard that I am.
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Post by Martin on Nov 20, 2017 17:22:07 GMT
If it’s a toy and a treat for your 50th, then surely it doesn’t matter if it loses some money and/or costs a bit to run? Based on the mileage you do in your main car, a toy isn’t going to go far each year.My ultimate dilemma. Around 4k per annum thus far. The most realistic "toy" would be the NSR250 as I'd actually use it on sunny days to get into work. Car-wise I'd probably be better off chopping the Gorilla in for a Scaglietti, which would still only do 4k per annum and be a toy and a family car. I like shiny things. Tragic bastard that I am. Sounds like a Scaglietti is your best plan (so far) and would be fairly easy to ‘man maths’.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 18:08:39 GMT
If the Scaglietti will do the job needed and is affordable perhaps it is a decent change. You only live once, unless you are James Bond in which case multiple personalities is the least of your woes.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 20, 2017 18:59:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 19:40:28 GMT
Makes the move a little easier perhaps.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 20, 2017 22:11:09 GMT
If I bought a Ferrari, any Ferrari, I reckon 1 year is as long as I’d own it. I don’t do credit any more and that’s a chunk of cash tied up.
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Post by Andy C on Nov 20, 2017 23:28:33 GMT
If you’re unsure about sinking money into owning one
How about joining one of those supercar hire clubs for a year?
P1 , auto vivendi etc
Have 12 different supercars (one a month) throughout the year
Would be a good 50th year
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 7:36:49 GMT
Do you get the car FOR a month?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 9:45:37 GMT
It's a machine to be driven. If you want to invest money, buy some art and hang it on the wall.
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Post by Blarno on Nov 21, 2017 9:57:23 GMT
I hope it falls on him. And his cat.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 21, 2017 10:07:08 GMT
That's OK: it's a Ducati; that's as fast as they go anyway when they're in the breakdown van.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 21, 2017 10:07:47 GMT
If you’re unsure about sinking money into owning one How about joining one of those supercar hire clubs for a year? P1 , auto vivendi etc Have 12 different supercars (one a month) throughout the year Would be a good 50th year Hmm. That's probably a better idea. I'll float that past W2.0
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 23, 2017 13:48:39 GMT
If you’re unsure about sinking money into owning one How about joining one of those supercar hire clubs for a year? P1 , auto vivendi etc Have 12 different supercars (one a month) throughout the year Would be a good 50th year Foolishly I have looked into this in detail now. P1 and Auto-Vivendi (neé Ecurie-25) are the two big protagonists. Cost wise they both seem to have it nailed as a duopoly as whilst they offer differing packages in terms of points and car costs when I do a like-like comparison on some scenarios they are pretty well on a par; maybe P1 are slightly cheaper as they offer a better rate for off-season days. So for £8k I'd get a Supercar driving / awareness course and then either 2.5 weekends per annum or 8 weekdays at peak times with P1 in a 458, or 4.25 off-peak weekends / 25 off-peak weekdays in an older 430 to give you a sense of the flex. I'll not put the rates up for A-V as I ticked an NDA form and they don't publish their rates online as P1 do. Both restrict miles to 50 per day, slightly more for lesser class of cars, but you can use points to do more miles. In reality I reckon I'd probably not really use a Ferrari of my own any more than 20 days a year and most of those days would be one hour after deciding to find the time to just drive it, plus it would be about 10 years old not the latest shiny thing. It's the second year that would shake you up. It's "only" £6600 as the joining fee is gone so you'd need to think carefully about not renewing or upgrading it if you've enjoyed the first year. Now that's about the cost of running an older Ferrari for a year. It's all very tempting and W2.0 didn't faint when I suggested it; P1 would be the no brainer for me as they are in Esher, would deliver the car to me without using my mileage allowance or I could just leave a car there (the E46 so they don't get any ideas about the Alpina ) and their like-like weekend costs were less. Far more attractive than I thought; and probably no less sensible than having a third car doing even less miles than the 4k the Alpina does annually. We'll see in May, considering my current contract ends in March at the end of the tax year.
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