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Post by Ben on Sept 19, 2017 6:27:30 GMT
Sav, you need a published column mate. You write a lot better than lots of other people I've seen on the Internet.
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 19, 2017 9:12:07 GMT
Sav, you need a published column mate. You write a lot better than lots of other people I've seen on the Internet. Sort one out for him then Even on a race by race tiny column basis in SG only is a start.
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Post by Ben on Sept 19, 2017 14:55:21 GMT
Sav, you need a published column mate. You write a lot better than lots of other people I've seen on the Internet. Sort one out for him then Even on a race by race tiny column basis in SG only is a start. What happened to that newspaper gig we found for him a while back?
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Post by Sav on Sept 19, 2017 22:50:08 GMT
Thanks Ben, unfortunately that opportunity didn’t come to much. I’m open to other things, but I don’t mind my current job.
With Verstappen, he could have yielded as Vettel was moving over, and his post-race comments suggested that he knew where Raikkonen was. He merely wanted Vettel to back out. As previously explained, the car in the middle rarely wins, they have nowhere to go and ultimately get boxed in. Vettel definitely chopped, but it wasn’t overly aggressive compared to other conduct seen at previous starts.
If one looks at Alonso, nobody calls him boring, yet he has excellent spatial awareness and foresees when things could get ugly, and backs out. Of course, there is a gulf of experience between the two – I don’t expect Verstappen to become like Alonso overnight. However, there have been a number of incidents that could have been avoided on his part. It would be better for him to learn early, rather than lose wins and perhaps championships because of rash moves. You can blame whoever for colliding, but if you ultimately keep retiring and harming your own race, that becomes a wider issue. I don’t think Verstappen can bear to play second-fiddle in wheel-to-wheel combat, which is commendable – nobody wants to be a door mat - but I think that mentality will only harm himself in his future career.
I still maintain that nobody should have been penalised for last Sunday's accident. It was exactly that, an accident, over in a few seconds, with mainly unsighted drivers. Since 2017 the lack of penalties for racing incidents has been refreshing, the costliest penalty of all is getting damage and retiring.
It was amusing to read more of Honda’s comments about Toro Rosso. Apparently Toro Rosso’s Franz Tost understands the Japanese culture. Is that a constant culture of stubbornness and failure? Honda's last foray into F1 was hardly a success; they had unreliable engines for BAR and their performance was poor as a fully-fledged outfit between 2006-2008. This engine switch is a risk for Toro Rosso, but perhaps a risk worth taking? On the one hand, they will receive “works” power units – as opposed to using older specification units. On the other hand, the midfield battle is imperative for Toro Rosso, they can’t afford to lose points because of chronic unreliability.
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Post by ChrisM on Sept 20, 2017 7:34:43 GMT
With Verstappen, he could have yielded as Vettel was moving over, and his post-race comments suggested that he knew where Raikkonen was. I think it all happened so quickly that there was no time to react - all over in the blink of an eye, and the mayhem started when Kimi's right rear wheel was caught by the Red Bull... whether this was due to Kimi veering slightly to the right when he had space on his left, or Verstappen moving slightly left to avoid the Vettel chop is hard to say. I think Vettel was hoping that Max would move slightly left and let him go sailing by into the lead (pun intended in view of all the surface water) but Max suddenly found himself in the middle of a fast-closing Ferrrai sandwich with no time to do anything significant. In some ways it was unfortunate that the out-of-control Kimi then speared into him, as I think Verstappen's car sustained minimal damage from the initial impact.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2017 9:34:34 GMT
The way Vettel was going to the left he'd have probably still taken Raikkonen out, even if Verstappen hadn't been there. He'd squeezed the other two cars into about half a car's width of track by the time the collision took place. All his fault if you ask me. All he's ultimately done is fucked up his championship chances, though, so more fool him.
The only reason this has been officially deemed a racing incident is that the FIA's only other course of action would've been to give Vettel more penalty points. That probably would've resulted in a race ban and Hamilton sailing away into the sunset with the championship all but in the bag.
I just read that this was the first time ever that both Ferraris have gone out on lap 1, so well done Seb, you have another record!
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Post by Tim on Sept 20, 2017 9:44:32 GMT
Kimi had the best view of those involved. Max was concentrating on Seb making a way over the top chop. The red cars and in particular Seb were at fault this time, saying that Max has had previous so he must be the guilty party is extremely generous to Ferrari To say that Ferrari lost two probable high points scores including a probable win so have paid enough is over simplification. When Max is over the top as he has been I am happy to see him get a slap from the law givers but to get a slap for something not his fault is frankly being all twin cheaks about it.
I don't think any of them should be penalised, after all they all took a part of it and were punished before they got to the first corner. However to say Kimi had the best view is clearly wrong, he got hit by a car that was 75% behind him. If you were on a motorway dawdling down the left lane and a car from the right lane pulled across and hit your rear wing with his front wing would you really say it was your fault?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 17:00:17 GMT
At that point, what was the wheel overlap with Max?
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Post by Tim on Sept 22, 2017 11:16:31 GMT
Verstappen's left front hi tKimi's right rear, i.e. Verstappen was 3/4 of a car length behind, the nose of his car would've been behind Kimi's head - even if Kimi could see sideways he still wouldn't've seen Max'car.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 12:31:34 GMT
He'd only gone past it a split second earlier, though, so he must've known it was there somewhere...
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Post by Tim on Sept 22, 2017 13:09:04 GMT
Probably but he was going in a straight line so was presumably allowed to assume he wouldn't get taken out?
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 22, 2017 13:37:49 GMT
Probably but he was going in a straight line so was presumably allowed to assume he wouldn't get taken out? Exactly. Of the three Kimi is [most] blameless. Max knew Kimi was there (he could see him) and knew Seb was coming across, therefore Max knew that if he turned away from Seb (which he did) he would clash with Kimi (which he did) so he knew to avoid the accident he just needed to back off, probably 5mm on the right hand pedal at the most. However he's a racing car driver so he didn't do that, which is why the stewards decided not to penalise him: you do not penalise racing drivers for having the racers instinct. They didn't penalise Seb because he was starting from first place and taking his line as pole-sitter into the first corner being that he was ahead of everyone and they didn't penalise Kimi as he was driving in a straight line.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 14:50:22 GMT
Max and Kimi had wheel overlap, whatever Max did there was going to be contact due to the chop coming from Vettel. The move was reckless considering the track state and lack of grip. It would have been more sensible to start behind the safety car. Failing that the common sense view would have seen less aggression at the start. Vettel had the most to lose in this but his move continues has reckless behaviour like, ramming Hamiltons car because Hamilton did what the rules say he should. Vettel should have been banned for a race at least.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 20:24:57 GMT
They didn't penalise Vettel for one reason; because the championship would've been all done and dusted if they had and no-one would bother watching the rest of it.
He could've dropped into third place (at worst) and then been let past Kimi with team orders later in the race putting him into first or second. But he did what he did instead...
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Post by ChrisM on Sept 22, 2017 21:03:43 GMT
I read something earlier today, can't remember who wrote it but they said that Vettel only needed to finish ahead of Hamilton to extend his points lead so there was no need for him to chop in front of Max (or Kimi) with such risks attached, especially in the wet with reduced visibility. I'm sure if he had ended up behind Kimi, team orders would have come into play.
Whatever, he decided otherwise and paid the price. Shame he took out the other 2 as well, but that's racing
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 14:29:05 GMT
Didn't I write it? Don't forget they took out Alonso, too...
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