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Post by alf on May 4, 2023 16:10:10 GMT
My daughter is 18 later this year, has been driving the C Max I bought for her mother a little, and is taking lessons soon. I had thought that prices of anything half decent would be really high and was not really considering buying her a car, plus my dad's 11 plate Fiesta may be up for grabs at some point. However I recently saw a 207 around the corner from me, immaculate, 25k miles, crossclimates all round (smacking of good maintenance to me) and up for £3500. It got me thinking that I would happily spend say £3-4k on a car for Lu, which would also help me not drive her about all the time, and help her have more of a social life - I loved being 18 with a car!
So, what options are there? I don't really know what is a very low insurance group, safe, maybe of about 2010-2013 vintage, and that should prove reliable and ideally enjoyable transportation. I'll start some Autotrader searches soon, but what passes for first cars these days? Fiestas, small Vauxhalls (which I always think of as soundly made and cheap to run) and those small Hyundais are obvious start points. Over the years my car interests have become more exclusively about stuff I'm personally interested in, small cars with sod all power have not really figured.... I don't know how much difference it makes but I already saw with the 207 that the 65bhp 1.4 petrol versions were insurance group 7, and the higher power (90bhp?) 1.4 petrols were group 11, so clearly even for similar models there can be a lot of insurance group variation...
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Post by ChrisM on May 4, 2023 16:33:22 GMT
I'd start by looking at that 207, if it's been well maintained and is in average condition or better (start by using the DVLA MoT checking website) and is insurable, I'd snap it up quick
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Post by alf on May 4, 2023 16:35:15 GMT
I thought so, but when I went back there 2 days later the "for sale" signs were gone already! I'll check again...
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Post by ChrisM on May 4, 2023 16:44:49 GMT
Other options that spring to mind are the Ka mark II and VW Polo..... do you mind if it's 3 doors or 5? The trouble is that there is a lot of tarted-up, dodgy stuff out there that is 15 to 20 years old because of the high second-hand pricing situation. You need to check prospective purchases over carefully and if you do come across a real bargain, you need to be prepared to act quickly. Was £3500 your budget or would you pay a bit more for something decent?
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Post by Roadrunner on May 4, 2023 17:02:21 GMT
I don't know if they are in the price range, but a VW Up is on my list for William when he is ready for his first car.
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Post by Martin on May 4, 2023 18:32:24 GMT
Std forum answer to any small car question…..a MINI
Other than that, my Nephew has an i20 which he really likes and was a similar price about a year ago. I’d avoid Corsa/similar as they can be money pits and the last thing you want is something unreliable.
I like the VW Up! as well, my mum has had 2 x high spec ones and they’ve been perfect.
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Post by Andy C on May 4, 2023 20:50:27 GMT
There’s much better options out there than a 207. As others have said - Mini, Up/Mii/Citi-go, i10, Aygo.
A 207, and Corsa for that matter would be bottom of my list and wouldn’t even get a look in
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Post by Martin on May 5, 2023 6:43:41 GMT
You’ll need to get quotes for insurance when you narrow the search down as I found you can’t rely too much on the insurance groups. The MINI Cooper D is group 15, the petrol is group 18 but was 20% cheaper for my eldest when we were looking recently.
My eldest nephew had a £3k Corsa as his first car, it was ditched (well, traded in…) after less than a year as it was starting to go wrong and cost money. Much better to invest that but more in something better rather than spend it on fixing stuff. His brothers i20 has been perfect of the last 12+ months, well worth the extra £1500, it being a couple of years newer is a bonus.
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Post by alf on May 5, 2023 7:00:16 GMT
Ok thanks ! i10, i20, Aygo and Up! Will all be investigated, as will Polos (which I expect to be pricey).
Some websites suggest you find cars in group 1 - not sure group 18 for a mini would be, especially if it gets taken to Uni somewhere urban…
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Post by Eff One on May 5, 2023 7:19:15 GMT
An early MK3 Fiesta, pre Ecoboom, would be a good bet. Easy and intuitive for a learner to drive, cheap to maintain, and the 1.25 and 1.4 Zetec engines are bulletproof.
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Post by chipbutty on May 5, 2023 7:35:25 GMT
Went through this process in Dec and the outcome was an Aygo. Started with the thought of a £1500 snotter, but it’s hard work to find anything vaguely suitable - so the budget creeps up and you then end up wondering why an 8 year old fiesta is nearly 8 grand. This is a 2020 car, the high spec one which came from a Toyota dealer with 25k miles - it was £9750 from memory and it’s up to it’s unmentionables in warranty. I suggested a new Dacia Sandero as they are usefully bigger than an Aygo and spectacular VFM, but as I wasn’t paying - Toyota it is.  |
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Post by alf on May 5, 2023 8:09:48 GMT
That - 8 year old Fiestas and Corsas being 8 grand - is what had made me originally think the whole idea was not possible. I like those Aygos but I'm not going for something that new!
Budget wise I have nothing, basically, I think a grand in my savings account - what I have had in the 5 years since divorce I have invested (long term) or spent. Call it high income high outgoings, until I stop paying her mum maintenance next summer anyway... Thats why I'm looking at the 3-4k bracket as its an amount I could repay quickly, and seems about the entry level for something decent. Her mum got all the cash, and then more in inheritances soon after, so should really be the one doing this in some ways -her buying the car and me covering the insurance/maintenance from income would make more sense but I have a feeling I will be doing both...
Ka's so far I like the look of - quite pretty, advantages of Ford handling (good for learning on) and engines - as well as the switchgear being like her mum's C Max so familiar. Good call Chris! They all have ESP as well, which would have saved a lot of accidents in my school 6th group as we learned to drive.............. A suprising number seem to have air con which I would avoid on a first car, half my car issues on my last 4 cars seem to be air con related.
Lots of the older i10's about, but they look a bit challenging....
VW Up's appear out of budget, near me the only sub £4k one is a 100k mile snotter with damage all over it and they still want £3500 for that!!
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Post by chipbutty on May 5, 2023 10:17:52 GMT
Insurance was a pain as well - the usual suspects (fiesta and co) are actually expensive because all the younglings buy them and wrap them around trees.
Also considered leasing as you used to be able to get Aygos and C1s for £99 a month - those days were long gone last year, but not sure now. If you have a kid who is good at looking after their stuff, it's an option maybe worth a 20 minute internet snuffle.
Skoda Citigo was better value than the UP - found a nice one that wasn't much older than the Aygo, but it was basic and wimmin logic then got involved so I just bowed out.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 5, 2023 10:52:50 GMT
That Pugs a good shout. A first car is a first car and no matter what it is, it will be brilliant.
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Post by Martin on May 5, 2023 10:54:24 GMT
Insurance was a pain as well - the usual suspects (fiesta and co) are actually expensive because all the younglings buy them and wrap them around trees. Also considered leasing as you used to be able to get Aygos and C1s for £99 a month - those days were long gone last year, but not sure now. If you have a kid who is good at looking after their stuff, it's an option maybe worth a 20 minute internet snuffle. Skoda Citigo was better value than the UP - found a nice one that wasn't much older than the Aygo, but it was basic and wimmim logic then got involved so I just bowed out. That explains the lipstick! None involved in the decision made on my eldest first car. I did the right thing and asked his mum if she wanted to be involved / contribute, knowing full well she wouldn’t. Until I’d bought it, then she thought she should be on the insurance and it live at her house so he could get more practice. Errrr…he paid £60 to be insured on her car last month and she only found time to take him out twice…. She came out to look when he drove home after just getting it, it was ‘nice’ and he was lucky, then she said it was like the one she had a few years ago but she had leather in hers…. Like Alf, I’ve only a year left on maintenance but despite paying a significant sum, I’m the only one who takes them on holiday and pays for everything. Sorry, back on topic! You should buy a MINI.  |
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Post by johnc on May 5, 2023 11:15:57 GMT
It is such a sweet day when maintenance payments stop!!!
And the answer is a Mini.
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Post by ChrisM on May 5, 2023 12:21:26 GMT
If the answer is MINI, for around £3.5k with a lower insurance group, initial searches suggested you could be looking at intergalactic mileage
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Post by Martin on May 5, 2023 13:46:29 GMT
True, but when has a forum car purchase ever been to budget?!
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Post by alf on May 5, 2023 13:56:07 GMT
The answer is a Ka  I found one dealer locally (well, 40 mins away) that seems to stock a whole fleet of them between £3k and £4k at any one time. To me they are a lot more stylish and attractive than many of the alternatives (not a mini, but then Ka's are also insurance group 3E!). I think maybe Martin and I should hold some sort of forum party next summer when we both stop maintenance payments. Compared to all the upheval and upset and losing all that cash it's not been the end of the world for me, but there is something uniquely irksome about funding someone's ongoing life - with your replacement - especially when they dont even need the money. So the date is etched in my mind - basically when my daughter finishes her last term of college next summer. |
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Post by clunes on May 5, 2023 14:12:44 GMT
The answer is a Ka I found one dealer locally (well, 40 mins away) that seems to stock a whole fleet of them between £3k and £4k at any one time. To me they are a lot more stylish and attractive than many of the alternatives (not a mini, but then Ka's are also insurance group 3E!). I think maybe Martin and I should hold some sort of forum party next summer when we both stop maintenance payments. Compared to all the upheval and upset and losing all that cash it's not been the end of the world for me, but there is something uniquely irksome about funding someone's ongoing life - with your replacement - especially when they dont even need the money. So the date is etched in my mind - basically when my daughter finishes her last term of college next summer. I look forward to that day myself (but its another 5+ years until they have both turned 18). I know the costs wont really reduce but it will still feel like a great moment |
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Post by Martin on May 5, 2023 14:19:47 GMT
The answer is a Ka I found one dealer locally (well, 40 mins away) that seems to stock a whole fleet of them between £3k and £4k at any one time. To me they are a lot more stylish and attractive than many of the alternatives (not a mini, but then Ka's are also insurance group 3E!). I think maybe Martin and I should hold some sort of forum party next summer when we both stop maintenance payments. Compared to all the upheval and upset and losing all that cash it's not been the end of the world for me, but there is something uniquely irksome about funding someone's ongoing life - with your replacement - especially when they dont even need the money. So the date is etched in my mind - basically when my daughter finishes her last term of college next summer. What are you thinking in terms of a celebration, a new Ferrari each?! I’ll stop paying nursery fees in September 24 next year as well, that’s £1,000 a month and he only goes 4 days a week. I know what Clunes means about costs not reducing, as kids don’t get cheaper as they get older, but when you pay for all their holidays, first car etc if should be a real saving not paying maintenance. The only thing that irks me about it is very little of what I’ve paid has ever gone on the kids, but it is what it is. Can’t put a price on happiness! |
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Post by Big Blue on May 5, 2023 14:41:53 GMT
Yeah: my maintenance payments just swapped to kids bank accounts 😆
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Post by Tim on May 9, 2023 8:02:35 GMT
Isn't a Ka 2 just a Fiat 500 underneath?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 9, 2023 13:20:00 GMT
Isn't a Ka 2 just a Fiat 500 underneath? It is indeed. |
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Post by ChrisM on May 9, 2023 18:16:02 GMT
Yes, but with Ford-tuned suspension
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 10, 2023 9:13:31 GMT
Yes, but with Ford-tuned suspension LOL |
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Post by Tim on May 10, 2023 10:37:24 GMT
Yes, but with Ford-tuned suspension Does that mean the bouncy rear end of the 500 has been eradicated? |
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Post by ChrisM on May 10, 2023 17:20:32 GMT
^
Yes, so long as the tyre pressures are correct.
I'll regale you again of the story of when I collected my Ka back in 2014 and drove straight from the dealership to meet my parents. I wondered if I'd made a huge mistake as the car was bouncing all over the place. When I checked the tyre pressures the next morning, I found they were at 40psi all round. A few minutes readjustment with my trusty footpump and a further "test-drive" showed that normality had been restored.
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Post by Alex on May 12, 2023 17:59:26 GMT
Just a thought Alf but have you checked what Lu wants?
That budget should easily get you into a Fiat 500 which seems to be the car of choice for girls her age given how many my brother manages to sell to that demographic!
All the small cars that have been mentioned will be good though and for 3-4 grand you've got lots of choice so the key as ever is to go on condition but be prepared that you may have to compromise if she sees one which may not be as good an example but is a particular colour - that's how I ended up with the wife buying an orange Panda.
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Post by ChrisM on May 12, 2023 21:42:02 GMT
Orange panda? As I happened to take this last week, here's a red panda for comparison  |
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I found one dealer locally (well, 40 mins away) that seems to stock a whole fleet of them between £3k and £4k at any one time. To me they are a lot more stylish and attractive than many of the alternatives (not a mini, but then Ka's are also insurance group 3E!). 
