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Post by Big Blue on Jul 19, 2017 8:39:46 GMT
I have never been a saver or an investor, if you discount owning houses in the SE of England as happenstance investments. Then my father passed away and left me two things of monetary value: a property and his ISA. I took the ISA money and started a self-investment ISA of my own using up the allowance for that year. Now this is money I've never had, expected to have or actually care much about. The property is different: that is there to fund my children's adult journey so has no real benefit to me at an immediate level (apart form the rental income being used as my annual ISA allowance) but gives me comfort that children are looked after when I'm dead. So this ISA thing. As I didn't care about it I took high risks on the stock market; had some nice gains in some areas; took some baths in other areas. I look at it every day to make sure I'm not caught out (I made a piss-poor choice earlier this year when of two shares I was watching the one I didn't take a punt on ended up a three- bagger - see I've got the jargon even if I don't have the capability  ). However the ISA is now worth what fifteen years ago, when kids were first arriving, I'd consider a considerable sum but it is still just a game to me. I've never seen the money; never seen any benefit from it and could lose it all in the morning if the companies I am invested with are all shite. At what point is this no longer a game and should I either take the money and splurge it (preferred option, obviously) or stop effing around and do a Warren Buffet and buy those shares in companies that make repeat, high volume consumables with strong brands? The point is I see it as a game because I'd rather have my dad about. He was a man who cared nowt for possessions; only a quiet life, the radio and books so spending money I have earned on the back of his life of frugality on bettering my already highly fortunate lot in life seems just wrong. Just a thought. On thing I have found out: none of this makes me any happier or unhappier. Only my kids do that. |
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Post by LandieMark on Jul 19, 2017 9:05:32 GMT
That's sounds like a healthy view, but I am sure your dad would have wanted you to have some fun with it. As to the level at which you decide to do something, then that is purely down to personal circumstances. Isn't it 10% of net worth that is usually quoted as being able to afford to lose?
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Post by Alex on Jul 19, 2017 9:27:36 GMT
I'm sure your Dad wouldn't have wanted you to spunk it up the wall given the way you describe him. He'd have wanted it to provide security. As you generally do contract work which, no matter how good you are at what you do or how great your networking skills have been, could dry up quickly and without you seeing it coming (hence you are paid quite handsomely for it), there is some comfort knowing that you've got something to fall back on should you be out of work for any period. Having his house is especially useful as it's an asset that could be liquidated reasonably easily if ever it was needed so you are sensible to just keep it ticking over until it's needed. With regards the ISA I think what you're doing is right just keep the balance between fun risk taking and sensible investment in check.
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Post by johnc on Jul 19, 2017 10:51:38 GMT
It ceases to be a game when you start to care about the amount of money involved. I have a client with a £0.5m portfolio cared for by stockbrokers and a separate pot of about £50K which he plays with at the high risk end of the market. He never invests less than £10K which to me is waaay too much when the share could crash and burn overnight but on the other hand he has had a few grow 100% to 500% in some of his picks. Overall he is up significantly and it funds his holidays and golf trips with the boys.
If I had his money I might think the same way but my significantly smaller savings are at a level I would not want (and couldn't afford) to lose so I am being more conservative now with what I invest in.
I am also looking at my ISA savings as money for my retirement which is wholly dependant on what I can put away. I couldn't just blow it unless I knew I had future financial stability all sown up in some other way. |
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 19, 2017 11:29:58 GMT
I agree with John. I don't mind playing around with small amounts of surplus income and pay monthly into a stocks and shares ISA for that reason, but any significant sums I prefer to protect by placing them only in investments where the capital is not at risk. I just don't earn nearly enough (despite being in the 1%) to feel able to play fast and loose with money.
I regularly get cold calls in the office from investment professionals who want to invest my money for me in some new and innovative way or other. I've discovered the quickest way to get rid of them is to tell them that I have a policy of not investing in capital-at-risk products.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 19, 2017 11:51:20 GMT
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 19, 2017 12:07:33 GMT
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Post by johnc on Jul 19, 2017 12:46:46 GMT
Those are serious Wow properties. Forget the top 1%, those will only fall in to the clutches of the top 0.01%.
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 19, 2017 13:32:51 GMT
Those are serious Wow properties. Forget the top 1%, those will only fall in to the clutches of the top 0.01%. Yep: there are times when you realise that winning the lottery will only make you one of the less-poor to the upper echelons. Regarding my OP and responses: agree on the "comfortable risk" element and the 10% of net-worth idea (I suppose that kind of puts a number on it) and it's as this particular portfolio approaches larger numbers that I am oo-ing and aar-ing about the game element vs comfort of scale of risk, even though I don't see it as risk-of-capital. |
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Post by Andy C on Jul 19, 2017 13:54:09 GMT
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 19, 2017 15:03:57 GMT
Wow, I like your style my friend! |
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Post by PG on Jul 19, 2017 16:40:05 GMT
That older property is "wow" indeed.
Re the OP, it stops being a game when you realise that without a final salary pension scheme, what you invest and save and generate income from is what you are going to have to live on for the rest of your life. Hit me about 45. Maybe you'll be there soon!
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Post by Stuntman on Jul 22, 2017 15:57:09 GMT
One of my ways of looking at it is that if the value of the investments increases by the amount of a year's living expenses, consider cashing in the increase.
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Post by Big Blue on Mar 27, 2020 10:52:55 GMT
Well I'll resurrect this one on the basis of Coronavirus.
The current situation on the stock market shows just how bent it is. My portfolio has lost 33% then gained 100% of the 66% of the original value in four days. Nothing has happened at any of the companies I invest in; the market has just decided this would happen.
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Post by Tim on Mar 27, 2020 11:15:03 GMT
Current thinking is that with the decisive action now taken here and in Europe there's an end in sight so the market makers are looking past the Daily Mail type headlines (I see we're focusing n Spain now because Italy's case load increases appear to be less dramatic :  and checking what's happening in places where the virus was more established. The only concern is the US and how bad it might get across there given the current Republican/Evangelical Christian right wing views of economy before health. All this bouncing about is making my job of predicting profitability/cashflow for the next 6 months difficult - a 10% change in the market like on Wednesday makes the figures instantly wrong. |
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Post by PG on Mar 27, 2020 11:18:38 GMT
Well, we had just received our third letter from our brokers telling us that our portfolios had gone down by 10% (so were worth just over 70% of what they were a month ago) but then of course they went back up the other day with the "best day in years" bounce. Maybe a dead cat bounce but we shall all see I guess.
At our point in life, what we need from our investments (as we are living off them) is stability in capital value, growth to keep pace with inflation and regular, reliable dividends.
So all that's pretty gone out of the window now!
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Post by johnc on Mar 27, 2020 12:00:24 GMT
Well I'll resurrect this one on the basis of Coronavirus. The current situation on the stock market shows just how bent it is. My portfolio has lost 33% then gained 100% of the 66% of the original value in four days. Nothing has happened at any of the companies I invest in; the market has just decided this would happen. So many people got scared and piled out but you are right, there are plenty of "professional" investors who almost orchestrate moves in the market which they then exploit to make a killing. |
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 27, 2020 13:02:30 GMT
My stock market investments (pension excluded) are sufficiently small that I am just ignoring their performance. Being a solicitor at a big law firm means they pretty much all have to be non-discretionary, so short of putting money into the funds, or taking it out, there's not much I can do.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 27, 2020 13:12:57 GMT
Based on latest projections I've just reconfirmed my retirement date as June 2055.
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Post by Martin on Mar 27, 2020 14:03:04 GMT
I don't normally have much invested apart from a stocks & shares ISA and some RSUs that vest each year. The ISA has dropped about 20% in the last couple of weeks and is close to 30% below where it was a couple of months back. I treat the RSUs as the bonus that they are, so am happy to just leave the latest lot of shares that have vested alone, as in theory based on prior performance and 'expert' views on the right level, should increase by at least 50% from where they are now at some point in the future. When our share price nearly halved, albeit from an artificial high due to a change in strategy, I bought some. Only to see them drop by about £2k in a couple of days, then climb back a week later to a couple of % above what I bought them for, slightly helped by the changing USD exchange rate. So I got out making a couple of hundred £ after fees and will get back in if it drops back down to Wednesday's levels and pay the long game, which will need to include not looking at the price every day! As BB said, nothing has happened other than investors trying to make money, which I can't blame them for.
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). However the ISA is now worth what fifteen years ago, when kids were first arriving, I'd consider a considerable sum but it is still just a game to me. I've never seen the money; never seen any benefit from it and could lose it all in the morning if the companies I am invested with are all shite. At what point is this no longer a game and should I either take the money and splurge it (preferred option, obviously) or stop effing around and do a Warren Buffet and buy those shares in companies that make repeat, high volume consumables with strong brands?
and checking what's happening in places where the virus was more established.
