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Post by PetrolEd on May 17, 2022 10:30:08 GMT
What's everyone's thoughts on the next few years?
If you listen to the media, we'll all be living on the streets in the next 12 months. Not that I listen too closely but have to say I have concerns. Rapid inflation, brexit still hanging over us which wouldn't be so bad if we didn't have an incomplete government and even weaker opposition. Fuel costs that show no signs of reducing?
I'm having serious thoughts on offloading the 997 and cashing in on its price rise over the last 18 months. I'm also only using the car to really commute everyday as I have less time for trackdays etc. Maybe replacing the car with a 20K hot hatch is a good idea. I could certainly do with the monthly payments in my back pocket as the mortgage is up for renewal next year.
Recession is it a certainty?
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Post by LandieMark on May 17, 2022 12:00:24 GMT
I don't know, but I'm glad my mortgage is fixed for the next few years.
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Post by ChrisM on May 17, 2022 12:07:51 GMT
The gap between richer and poorer will increase. We're doomed. Rising food prices, rising energy prices, a nation in debt due to the furlough scheme and other factors, rising taxes, high inflation but almost zero wage rises. A government that messed up Brexit and seems to have no clue what to do, and is out of touch with reality..... at least my mortgage is paid off and I'm closer to death than birth, but I really wonder how my kids and grandkids will survive
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Post by Big Blue on May 17, 2022 12:10:24 GMT
Today the news is that the ONS records more vacancies than unemployment for the first time ever, so there clearly needs to be some kind of re-set of the economy. There are now staff at all levels that can either tell their boss to fuck off with reduced fear or choose their first / next employer on a wider range of criteria. Part of this is caused by the pandemic making people of a certain age in a certain position decide that work can fuck it and moved house to just potter about, not take expensive holidays.
Recessions are an invention of the competitive economy, which dictates that you must sell more of “stuff” every year or charge more for it. There are far more pressing issues regarding the food chain, with a poor wheat crop in Western Europe and some issues with central and Eastern European supplies caused by a maniac in Moscow and other issues with other commodity supply (steel and aluminium prices are mental due to ongoing project demand and pipeline demand for something that is currently scarce). A massive demand for a thing you can’t get is not really what recessions are about as not wanting it is a more likely cause.
Rising prices relative to income is a huge lag-effect, last seen to great effect in the 1970s when prices went bat shit mental and salaries took years to catch up mainly due to huge swathes of industry being cost controlled by governments. That’s our most likely problem (apart from a war) and the end result will be flat lined house prices against a rise in incomes so that the biggest family cost (housing) falls back in line with the reality of other costs.
Keep the Porsche if you enjoy it and it is not utterly imperative to sell. We’re all going to die in the end so we may as well enjoy our time here however we are able.
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Post by ChrisM on May 17, 2022 13:24:31 GMT
I think the the war in Ukraine has but humanity/society/ "the world" back by at least 20 to 30 years. West won't trust East for decades and the effects of the war could last a lot longer than this. Destruction of schools, hospitals etc is absolutely outrageous and the effect on Ukraine itself could last for the best part of 100 years.
Every country needs to become much more self-sufficient
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 13:27:59 GMT
Listening to the news reporters is rather like the dirges in music Sara called "Cut my own throat music" and frankly all news agencies should be given a sharp boot in the plums to stop them doing this. The hunt for ratings has made news less important than the destructive method used to deliver it.
No certainty of a depression especially after the jobs news, while times will be hard for many there are certainly things we can do to mitigate this. We have to take responsibility for things we can do to change the record and keep going but, one of the biggest flaws in our society still exists. Teaching kids to manage money and be better at managing diet. A grow bag on a balcony can be used to grow veg and fruit so why not? A few simple pots on the kitchen windowsill can grow cress and herbs, again, why not?
Far too many of us simply rely on others doing that for us, it does not have to be the end of society, just tough times. We can do it, what is the alternative?
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Post by PG on May 17, 2022 14:29:05 GMT
.... Part of this is caused by the pandemic making people of a certain age in a certain position decide that work can fuck it and moved house to just potter about, not take expensive holidays.... I took that view before the pandemic. Didn't move house, kept the Jaaaag and have never been so busy. But the expensive holidays got canned. Since I retired (October 2017) I've been on one flight, to Spain. And that reminded me how much I had come to hate airports and flying. Not hate as in frightened but hate as in a horrible experience of shyte customer service and ugliness, for which we are supposed to be grateful. On the OP, I really don't know either way. Yet. As a "retiree" inflation and / or recession could be a complete disaster depending on how investments and property do. So to say I'm not worried would be untrue. I think that the main issue we have is that too many people have got used to the idea that everything ought to be cheap; that governments can make things cheap or keep them cheap; and that we all need (no, deserve) to do everything we want. So cheap energy, cheap food, cheap(er) housing etc are all designed to allow people to have larger discretionary incomes to spend on eating out, goods, holidays and so on. And that the government ought to keep it that way. But if global energy prices skyrocket; food becomes more expensive and stuff is in short supply, what are the government actually able to do? I mean let's face it, increasing NI to pay more to the NHS hasn't exactly gone down a storm, so can you imagine what would happen if the government decided to increase tax but subsidise energy? People want somebody else to subsidise their energy! The Conservatives are therefore stuck. Labour keep crying windfall tax and that's about it - they have no real clue what to do either really. Perhaps what I'm really frightened of is a Labour government (propped up by Liberals or SNP maybe) deciding that not only are windfall taxes a good idea, but a wealth tax is an even better one. Civil service pensions would of course be exempt, but everybody else - home owners, people with DC pension pots, ISA's - prepare to lose a good chunk of your wealth.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 17, 2022 15:02:16 GMT
Today the news is that the ONS records more vacancies than unemployment for the first time ever, so there clearly needs to be some kind of re-set of the economy. There are now staff at all levels that can either tell their boss to fuck off with reduced fear or choose their first / next employer on a wider range of criteria. Part of this is caused by the pandemic making people of a certain age in a certain position decide that work can fuck it and moved house to just potter about, not take expensive holidays. Recessions are an invention of the competitive economy, which dictates that you must sell more of “stuff” every year or charge more for it. There are far more pressing issues regarding the food chain, with a poor wheat crop in Western Europe and some issues with central and Eastern European supplies caused by a maniac in Moscow and other issues with other commodity supply (steel and aluminium prices are mental due to ongoing project demand and pipeline demand for something that is currently scarce). A massive demand for a thing you can’t get is not really what recessions are about as not wanting it is a more likely cause. Rising prices relative to income is a huge lag-effect, last seen to great effect in the 1970s when prices went bat shit mental and salaries took years to catch up mainly due to huge swathes of industry being cost controlled by governments. That’s our most likely problem (apart from a war) and the end result will be flat lined house prices against a rise in incomes so that the biggest family cost (housing) falls back in line with the reality of other costs. Keep the Porsche if you enjoy it and it is not utterly imperative to sell. We’re all going to die in the end so we may as well enjoy our time here however we are able. Well done Jeff. I've noticed its a lot quieter round here recently but if this place were to die its your sensible take on the issues in life that I would miss the most.
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Post by chipbutty on May 17, 2022 16:47:25 GMT
I think we are in uncharted territory with regards to the economy because there is no clear historical precedent to guide and inform, so much has happened and so much is happening in a relatively compressed time frame that usual expected outcomes are muddied.
If I take a simplistic view – I think this means one of two things. Either the global economy is going to go tits up in the most spectacular way , or it will prove to be surprisingly resilient when you turn the crazy up to 11 and everyone pretends to have a magic money tree.
I am very suspicious of all the price rises driven by “ shortages “ – it just looks like rampant profiteering to me and whilst I don’t agree the Government have a responsibility to protect people from price rises, the actions they could take to address the root causes longer term are caught up in all of the environmental hand wringing.
What keeps me awake at night is worrying about what new and ingenious ways Governments globally look to limit our freedoms in the name of “ the collective good “. On that basis – you should look to enjoy what you can before the new Puritans decide to tax the stuffing out of it, or ban it completely.
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Post by bryan on May 17, 2022 17:11:28 GMT
our 10 year fix isn't due up until 2024 - I can refix now for a further 10 years at 2.74% but it will cost me a £3.3k early termination fee - it's tempting - there is a £100pcm saving until the end of the fix and I suspect that will carry on into the future. Just finding the fix fee is the issue!
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Post by garry on May 17, 2022 20:48:45 GMT
I’m not feeling very optimistic about the economy. We’ve been led by a set of Donkeys into a perfect storm. Firstly the reaction to Covid was so far out of proportion to the risk. We ended up losing energy capacity because companies closed less profitable plants as demand dropped through the floor. When energy demand returned those companies found some plants too expensive to recommission, especially as our glorious leaders had decided that we are transitioning to cleaner energy, making the recommissioning business case very unattractive. Finally, the Ukraine has been emboldened by western leaders to poke Russia until it bites. And so we have massive instability in one our major energy supply markets.
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Post by Stuntman on May 17, 2022 20:59:00 GMT
I'm currently resigning myself to having less disposable income for the next few years as I cannot see my salary rising by anywhere near as much as my living costs are increasing.
Fortunately, I live a fairly simple life and well within my means. So it just means that I will save less and spend less on booze, art and precious metals. The cars will of course be staying.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 18, 2022 11:00:14 GMT
Belts are certainly going to have to tighten. We've increased the pay of all of our lowest paid employees by 7% to try and offset some of it, while everyone else got 5%. It's a help but won't soften the blow entirely. Many companies are trying to raise wages or give one off "cost of living" raises to help their staff. I'm fortunate that my mortgage is fixed for another 3 years and my fuel costs are fixed until Feb next year.
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Post by Stuntman on May 18, 2022 17:56:23 GMT
Jesus. I got 2.8%.
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Post by Big Blue on May 18, 2022 18:01:32 GMT
What’s a payrise?
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Post by Boxer6 on May 18, 2022 18:11:05 GMT
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Post by Martin on May 18, 2022 18:30:56 GMT
We gave 3% to salaried colleagues, hourly paid rises varied from 4% to teens% for some Class 1 lorry drivers. Well, the 'pot' was 3%, I gave my team 2.8% for 'B' performance and 3.5% for 'A' which kept me within budget.
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Post by ChrisM on May 18, 2022 20:24:21 GMT
Another "indeed". I'm still earning less than I was 4 years ago
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Post by Big Blue on May 18, 2022 22:03:05 GMT
I was paid more than I am now in 1999.
I was overpaid back then because I was in the tech-bubble sector in the run up to Y2K but that’s not the point…….
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Post by chipbutty on May 19, 2022 8:48:46 GMT
One commentator piece from the Telegraph
To the experts, economists and other idiot savants who inexplicably failed to see this storm coming, thanks for nothing. All of their acronyms, PhDs, fancy modelling and algorithms have proved useless: Britain and the world are plunging into the most terrifying economic, political and cultural crisis of the past 40 years. A bunch of intelligent amateurs couldn’t have done much worse.
Inflation is out of control, a terrible recession is looming and higher interest rates are about to send house prices tumbling and unemployment soaring: the politicians are still in denial, unlike the voters, but the reckoning, when it comes, will be traumatic.
This is like the financial crisis all over again, only worse: for the second time in less than 15 years, the public has been betrayed by a failed technocratic orthodoxy, an over-educated yet staggeringly ignorant ruling class convinced that it can defy human nature as well as the laws of economics.
Why do these people never learn? Why do they have no shame? Where is the abject apology from the Governor of the Bank of England for the fact that, even after stripping out the cost of food and energy, inflation is hugely higher than his target? And why are our politicians refusing to treat this crisis with the sense of emergency that it requires?
The system is broken, millions are facing poverty, the middle classes are being hammered and yet no action is being taken on tax or supply-side deregulation, while interest rates, scandalously, remain at just 1 per cent. Why is the Chancellor not holding Andrew Bailey, the Governor, publicly to account for his reluctance to act and his abysmal predictions? Since when is the Bank’s “independence” an excuse to allow it to fail with zero consequences, with no genuine oversight? The cowardice and buck-passing are sickening.
The rot started, as with so much else, in 1997 with the election of Tony Blair. The Bank of England was given the wrong mandate when it was granted its operational autonomy: it had to focus almost exclusively on consumer price inflation, rather than asset prices (such as property) or financial stability. Soon enough, house prices started to surge, the Bank ignored the liquidity-fuelled madness in the City, and economists on a power trip started to believe their own propaganda.
The experts drew exactly the wrong lessons in 2008 when Northern Rock and Lehman Brothers went bust: they thought that bailouts and ultra-low interest rates were the answer to every problem, even though they were actually the very cause of the irrational exuberance of the 2000s.
All of these tools and more were wheeled out again and again over the past decade, as those entrusted with our money convinced themselves that inflation was forever tamed. Fixated as they were on narrow measures of price increases, they turned a blind eye to the money gushing into property, commodities or tech stocks. The central banks, the supposed guardians of our capitalist society, had become central planners, prisoners of an intoxicating groupthink: they were sure they could manipulate interest rates and use QE to guarantee perpetual growth. They thought they were right, god-like even, and everybody who didn’t buy into their new religion was not just wrong but stupid and old-fashioned.
The politicians, starting with David Cameron, lost interest in economics: an older generation of Tories studied Keynes, Hayek, Friedman and even Mises to understand the chaos of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, but their successors – with a few glorious exceptions – couldn’t be bothered. They quickly forgot two of the golden rules of economics: too much money chasing too few goods, services and assets pushes up their price; and debasing the currency is one of the easiest ways to destroy a civilisation.
Instead, the job of the politician, as Cameron, Theresa May and even Boris Johnson see it, is to divvy up the proceeds of growth that somehow automatically appear like manna from heaven, rather than having to think how to grow the size of the GDP pie. Thanks to the magic of ever-lower interest rates, it no longer mattered whether they hit businesses with regulations or entrepreneurs with higher taxes – or so they thought.
This emboldened the hard-Left. If it was OK to print money after the sub-prime crisis, why not print more now to pay for public spending? Why not ignore budget deficits altogether? The centre-Right, meanwhile, embraced green and public health schemes to make energy, travel and food more expensive, convinced that overall prices would remain low.
The lockdowns were the culmination of this madness: the Government spent as if in a World War, “paid” for by central banks creating money out of thin air. The Corbynites had won. The magic money-tree was normalised, with catastrophic short, medium and long-term consequences that haven’t all become clear. Millions became addicted to the crack cocaine of free money. House prices and share prices rose further, fuelling the rage of the have-nots. Many decided that they were entitled to an income without needing to work for it. Older workers quit the labour market. A socialist ethic gained ground, undermining the free society.
The benefit-to-cost ratio of lockdowns continues to deteriorate: yes, furlough bailed out millions, but now is the time to pay up, and the inflation tax, dislocation and cultural meltdown is going to prove extraordinarily steep.
The inflationary hit is being greatly exacerbated by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the massively reduced supply of food this is causing. But this supply shock comes in the context of years of excessively low interest rates and quantitative easing, a grievous set of errors for which Western elites have nobody to blame but themselves. Inflation would have been a massive problem even without Putin’s crimes.
It now looks as if the public will either be forced to accept its greatest real-terms pay cut ever, or wages will spiral, requiring a savage overreaction via much higher interest rates – and a bitter recession – to wring the inflation out of the system.
“Why did no one see it coming?” the Queen asked after the demise of Lehman Brothers during a trip to the London School of Economics in 2008. The answer then is the same as it is today: a toxic combination of intellectual error, hubris and political short-termism. The voters’ revenge, when it comes, will be pitiless.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 19, 2022 8:56:15 GMT
Another who hasn't had a pay rise in 5 years. It seems the modern way that if you want a pay rise you move to a new company.
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Post by PG on May 19, 2022 11:48:49 GMT
One commentator piece from the Telegraph To the experts, ....
...“Why did no one see it coming?” the Queen asked after the demise of Lehman Brothers during a trip to the London School of Economics in 2008. The answer then is the same as it is today: a toxic combination of intellectual error, hubris and political short-termism. The voters’ revenge, when it comes, will be pitiless.I read that piece too and thought it was a good summary of a lot of the issues. I think the best summary of every elected official - Ministers, MPs, BofE, Treasury et al - since probably John Major's time is "too clever by half". They all think they were so smart. Sadly, if the voters revenge means Keir Starmer in number 10, then maybe we ought to add voters to that list of people being either too stupid or too "smart" for their own and our collective good. I accept the choice of Boris and Rishi is hardly a pleasing alternative. As I said in another post, if UK politics is to make any real change, then maybe we need a new party called Common Sense. I'm voting for Common Sense has a certain ring to it.
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Post by Alex on May 19, 2022 12:32:58 GMT
It's really difficult to see things getting better in the short to medium term. People are really suffering from increased energy prices but this is assuaged by the fact its not cold and the days are long so lights don't need to come on until late in the evening. But as the energy price cap could go up another 50% on todays rates come October it doesn't bode well for next winter. If people are struggling now what happens then? The energy firms cant go cutting off half the country for not paying and I doubt they have the staff to fit everyone who gets in debt with a pre payment key meter. If the government is gambling on prices stabilising or going down by then I think they've put their money on the wrong horse.
And then there's food. Prices have gone up but we're being shielded by todays wheat and grain being tye produce that was harvested in late summer 2021 which in turn was grown using much cheaper fertiliser from late 2020 and early 21. This years crop is likely to be at least double in price if not more. That has a knock on for all meat and dairy products too as it forms a large percentage of livestock feed.
Forget choosing between heating and eating, there's going to be a big increase in people being able to afford neither.
All of this ultimately stems from many years of everything being too cheap and costs of staple foods and fuel seeing a race to the bottom. This had led to us all being totally unprepared for when this unsustainable economic model collapsed.
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Post by Martin on May 19, 2022 12:39:46 GMT
Another who hasn't had a pay rise in 5 years. It seems the modern way that if you want a pay rise you move to a new company. If you want a significant increase then yes, but that’s always been the case for a lot of companies. Only now am I working for a business that pays the right salary for the role, whether you’re an internal or external candidate. If your employer has been really struggling financially, then I understand pay freezes (but not for 5 years), otherwise it’s short sighted as people will leave and replacing them will cost more plus you lose the experience.
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Post by Alex on May 19, 2022 17:46:15 GMT
Its amazing how some companies fail to recognise the cost of brain-drain on an organisation and see people leaving as them giving a fuck-you message rather than an indication that maybe they're the common denominator.
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Post by Big Blue on May 20, 2022 13:59:15 GMT
One commentator piece from the Telegraph To the experts, economists and other idiot savants who inexplicably failed to see this storm coming, thanks for nothing. All of their acronyms, PhDs, fancy modelling and algorithms have proved useless: Britain and the world are plunging into the most terrifying economic, political and cultural crisis of the past 40 years. A bunch of intelligent amateurs couldn’t have done much worse.......This bit in red is the biggest reliever of this entire (largely correct) analysis - especially the bit about our politicians no longer having interest in the history and lessons of economics. The writer is spouting about the state of the UK and as typifies a Telegraph reader ignores that there is in fact a rest of the world. We have an economic crisis because all of our industry hasn't got used to the fact that the market is not operating - our client base still has gigantic pipeline projects worth billions of [name a currency] that are marching on unabated despite the fact that things like steel, concrete and aluminium are just not available and what is available is several times more expensive than they budgeted for. As I said earlier, recession is when no one wants shit any more because they can't afford it. These huge projects have already started, already funded and like a super tanker cannot be stopped in an instant. Far bigger a problem than anything economic is the food scenario, which will lead to more famine and wars in sub-saharan Africa which will be inconsequential to a Europe that is feeding itself as much as it can. Politically the UK is fucked because 51% of the people that voted chose to be fucked: whilst there are always cross border issues in mainland Europe they are still stronger together than this bunch of windswept rocks in the North Atlantic will ever be. (ask the island of Ireland if together is better or not.....). The west is strong politically because Russia has made Europe and the former colonial Europeans (Americans) remember that it formed a single body to the extent previous doubters have asked to join in. There is a meme doing the rounds about a Russian wife asking her husband about the special operations in Ukraine. He tells her about the 2000 tanks, 24,000 soldiers, ships and aircraft Mother Russia has lost in the struggle of what is a proximity war between NATO and Russia. She asks how many NATO forces have been crushed by the glorious Russian forces. "Oh," he says. "NATO hasn't actually joined in yet." Culturally, the very west of Europe has continually fucked itself by forgetting its long-ingrained culture and letting things become lax to the point where things that are utterly counter to that culture now have the high ground. Not merely religion but the physiological norms of sexual birth - a girl was reportedly hounded out of 6th form by her follow pupils for questioning the place of transgenderism against the inescapable facts of biology. So whilst I agree the UK is fucked I subdue that thought by acknowledging that the entire western world finds itself in that position and therefore some weird kind of status-quo exists which is currently making the effects nowhere near as bad as they could be. India, Rest of Asia, the Arab world, Africa and South America would be in a great position for world dominance over Russia, Europe, North America and Australasia if it weren't for that fact that they are a huge collective of argumentative, self serving shitheads that would rather kill one another than join them to take a share of the rest. As before, we're all going to die. Live your life as you can and consider a move to Japan if you are able.......
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 14:56:11 GMT
"Politically the UK is fucked because 51% of the people that voted chose to be fucked":
More than a little offensive actually as I for one and many others did not do so. When it comes to the eu, remember the latest French election and a 48% vote for the Pen, the various eastern eu nations getting told "You joined the eu so your policies are made by us" when there are certain elements of localised law and restrictions they want so, just how unified is the eu?
You have not mentioned the manner in which the prc is spreading influence by buying off politicians etc and moving into African, Pacific and indeed european nations. Wait 'til you see the bill they are going to present.
I mentioned a long time ago the the continued expansion of the eu and nato would be used to start a european war but that was laughed at. Where are we now? Unready when we needed to act quickly and that failure to act is going to cost nations the world over into excessive expenditure.
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Post by Big Blue on May 20, 2022 15:28:00 GMT
"Politically the UK is fucked because 51% of the people that voted chose to be fucked": More than a little offensive actually as I for one and many others did not do so. When it comes to the eu, remember the latest French election and a 48% vote for the Pen, the various eastern eu nations getting told "You joined the eu so your policies are made by us" when there are certain elements of localised law and restrictions they want so, just how unified is the eu?
You have not mentioned the manner in which the prc is spreading influence by buying off politicians etc and moving into African, Pacific and indeed european nations. Wait 'til you see the bill they are going to present. I mentioned a long time ago the the continued expansion of the eu and nato would be used to start a european war but that was laughed at. Where are we now? Unready when we needed to act quickly and that failure to act is going to cost nations the world over into excessive expenditure. This total lack of understanding is why people voted Leave when they were lied to. All EU directives are voted on by the members and must be UNANIMOUSLY agreed. That means the UK voted for every single piece of EU legislation that ever got made in to Laws in the UK by the respective devolved parliaments. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has ever been imposed on the UK by the EU - quite the contrary as the UK had substantial rebates on funding that no other member received and was able to remain outside of Schengen for mobility purposes. Local rules and laws that did not contravene any agreed directive could be made by any country at any time and as seen by the COVID scenario in times of crisis individual nations were allowed to make rules as befit the well being of their own nations. Le Pen and her father are perennial losing racist whipps and she carries on a fine family tradition. So offensive or not, chose to be fucked is my opinion. PRC is indeed spreading its funding but is completely a different animal to Russia and whatever controls they feel they have in Africa will fall to nothing for the reasons given above about refusal to share (very prevalent in Africa - my mum's a white African). They think they are lording it over the tribal leaders that represent governments in Africa but they're not in the tribe and never will be. As to a European war: this is substantially different to previous European wars in that it's not a European war. Previously lots of nations wanted to remain neutral, had not formed themselves as nations due to the residual empires and monarchies and formed allies that sided populace and engineering nations against one another. This current scenario is a single nation of any consequence against all the others.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 16:02:43 GMT
You know that individual parliaments have different parties and different ideas of what the eu wanted from them, they still want to decide for themselves what they teach kids in the different topics like sex education for example. I am not saying they are right, just that they WANT different things due to their beliefs.
"This total lack of understanding is why people voted Leave when they were lied to", I make no judgement on why others voted to leave as you have. I voted for my own reasons and frankly it is my business to do so. This feeds into what I said about individual choice, parliaments come and go with different political parties with different beliefs, just because the UK voted to remain in 1973 has zero voracity as to future voting, hence we voted leave. The eu having got its way then decides as it will, that all future elements in that country (Whatever) will have the same view when facts are we humans are fickle creatures. The eu started out as a trading group and is now busily evolving into a United States of europe. Take a look at the French far right, 48% of the vote and what of the future? Do you have a guarantee they will not get there next time? Or the time after that?
A european was that is not a european war. Only by the definition that many of those nations are not actively engaged in combat operations. We are ALL supplying munitions, money and other aid to one of those combatants therefor and to all practical intents it is a european war.
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Post by Big Blue on May 20, 2022 16:55:42 GMT
Using an example about sex education in schools is a pretty poor choice when trying to give an example of EU diktat. Poland is in the EU - their teaching of sex education in school is pretty traditional in Roman Catholic terms and bears no resemblance to that in, say, Germany or the UK (when it was a member state). The parties in each nation are in no doubt what the EU wants from them but one thing is sure in all of them: those that feel they can gain the most personally are certain to blame them for anything they can to remove the obstacle to their own self-aggrandisement.
You’ve also decided to ignore that I pointed out that this is not a European war when I had taken pains to point out why. When the Germans invade France or annex Austria I’ll take your definition on board.
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