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Post by Big Blue on Feb 9, 2022 15:03:59 GMT
Would you really pick an mpv over a modern suv? Off the top of my head a Skoda kodiaq or Tiguan all space has all the benefits of an suv with 7 (just about occasional use) seats Mpvs are dated and have an old giffer reputation . Do they still even make Mpvs ? Again, yes and I did. When I got the Sharan V6 the alternative I looked at was an ML. The only reason the MPV market in Europe has stagnated is marketing of SUVs and the lack of development of MPVs and the minuscule sales of ones with big engines. Kids get older and bigger really quickly, far quicker than a typical 4 year ownership rota so take a Tiguan and a Touran and ask a mum to hustle the push chair into both to see why SUVs are all about show. Then ask a relatively newly-independent 3 or 4 year old to clamber into both and again, discover why that SUV jacked-up ride height is less practical than the sales brochure let’s on. Two kids only and an estate with decent-enough handling and shove is by far the best bet over either an MPV or an SUV.
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Toenail
Feb 9, 2022 17:43:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by Andy C on Feb 9, 2022 17:43:23 GMT
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Toenail
Feb 9, 2022 23:02:00 GMT
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 9, 2022 23:02:00 GMT
Whos people like us? Andy, Martin, Chris, Jonny, me. all going SUV. I can't have 5 cars on the drive so have to compromise on 2/3 cars doing the job therefore for people like us the SUV is the swiss army knife that a 5 series isn't. I was thinking of people who prefer driving. A 5 series is better to drive than an X5 and does exactly the same stuff apart from sitting higher up and sending out a 'get out of my way' message to other road users. Unless you need a couple of inches extra ground clearance of course. I prefer driving. And a Macan GTS drives better than my 440i… Sure I’d prefer a 911 but it doesn’t work for us.
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Toenail
Feb 9, 2022 23:02:23 GMT
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 9, 2022 23:02:23 GMT
Oh and a 5-series doesn’t fit in the damn garage.
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Post by PG on Feb 10, 2022 16:07:10 GMT
I like that Tonale. To me it does look unmistakenly an Alfa rather than anything else. It has a jacked up 147 vibe about it, which I guess is what it actually is in market terms.
On the SUV hate / love thing. For me it depends on what the SUV is and what the alternative is. I don't think you can make absolute judgements in any way about any type of car. Or else it's a short road to "we don't need that kind of car on our roads" and that's a slippery slope.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 10, 2022 16:16:10 GMT
I quite like it but it already looks a bit dated, recycling design cues from Alfas of the last 10 years. I doubt it'll be particularly noticeable on the road.
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Post by Big Blue on Feb 10, 2022 16:18:47 GMT
Or else it's a short road to "we don't need that kind of car on our roads" and that's a slippery slope. No: it's a perfectly rational train of thought.
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Post by Martin on Feb 10, 2022 18:12:37 GMT
Or else it's a short road to "we don't need that kind of car on our roads" and that's a slippery slope. No: it's a perfectly rational train of thought. At least you could get all 5 of your kids in it!
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Post by PetrolEd on Oct 1, 2024 10:41:12 GMT
I have had the misfortune of being provided a Tonale today as a loan car from the next 48 hours. First impressions? What a heap of poo.
Gutless engine that's either none existent or all there, making a racket that a cheap hairdryer would be proud of. Poor interior with cheapo plastics and no effort to cover it in any faux leather to at least brighten the place up. It handles well but then show it a corner and you fall out of the completely flat, non supportive, overly hard seats. What a crud Alfa, Is it a badge engineered Peugeot? It bongs incessantly at you if you dare go 1mph over the speed limit, bongs if the speed limit changes, bongs if a cars within 10 feet. OMG stop the noise! The driving position is awful and probably the only nod to Alfas of old. Maybe it could challenge an Arna as the worst Alfa ever?
Prices start at 35K, no wonder you don't see many on the road. Its not even in the nice Green to help save it. The interior has the charm of a 90's Ford Fiesta so can't work out why its so expensive. Maybe I'm not exposed enough o modern cars but if this is it you can keep them. People give Electric cars a hard time but the Tesla we have just bought which is cheaper per month has far more going for it in every conceivable area.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 1, 2024 17:55:20 GMT
I have had the misfortune of being provided a Tonale today as a loan car from the next 48 hours. First impressions? What a heap of poo. Gutless engine that's either none existent or all there, making a racket that a cheap hairdryer would be proud of. Poor interior with cheapo plastics and no effort to cover it in any faux leather to at least brighten the place up. It handles well but then show it a corner and you fall out of the completely flat, non supportive, overly hard seats. What a crud Alfa, Is it a badge engineered Peugeot? It bongs incessantly at you if you dare go 1mph over the speed limit, bongs if the speed limit changes, bongs if a cars within 10 feet. OMG stop the noise! The driving position is awful and probably the only nod to Alfas of old. Maybe it could challenge an Arna as the worst Alfa ever? Prices start at 35K, no wonder you don't see many on the road. Its not even in the nice Green to help save it. The interior has the charm of a 90's Ford Fiesta so can't work out why its so expensive. Maybe I'm not exposed enough o modern cars but if this is it you can keep them. People give Electric cars a hard time but the Tesla we have just bought which is cheaper per month has far more going for it in every conceivable area. Oh dear. I briefly sat in a Junior at the FoS over the summer with an Italian friend who is an automotive designer. It was very disappointing - truly a cheap and nasty interior - not remotely premium-feeling at all. It wasn't so much the design of the interior as just how shoddy it looked and felt. Mind you, we also got caught in the LR pavilion for ages due to a downpour and found plenty of remarkably flimsy and cheapo plastic trim pieces on the exterior of the Defender to critique as well.
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Post by Martin on Oct 1, 2024 19:32:20 GMT
Oh dear indeed. I thought it was reasonable looking for that of thing, but it sounds awful in every way.
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Toenail
Oct 1, 2024 19:45:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by PetrolEd on Oct 1, 2024 19:45:27 GMT
I have had the misfortune of being provided a Tonale today as a loan car from the next 48 hours. First impressions? What a heap of poo. Gutless engine that's either none existent or all there, making a racket that a cheap hairdryer would be proud of. Poor interior with cheapo plastics and no effort to cover it in any faux leather to at least brighten the place up. It handles well but then show it a corner and you fall out of the completely flat, non supportive, overly hard seats. What a crud Alfa, Is it a badge engineered Peugeot? It bongs incessantly at you if you dare go 1mph over the speed limit, bongs if the speed limit changes, bongs if a cars within 10 feet. OMG stop the noise! The driving position is awful and probably the only nod to Alfas of old. Maybe it could challenge an Arna as the worst Alfa ever? Prices start at 35K, no wonder you don't see many on the road. Its not even in the nice Green to help save it. The interior has the charm of a 90's Ford Fiesta so can't work out why its so expensive. Maybe I'm not exposed enough o modern cars but if this is it you can keep them. People give Electric cars a hard time but the Tesla we have just bought which is cheaper per month has far more going for it in every conceivable area. Oh dear. I briefly sat in a Junior at the FoS over the summer with an Italian friend who is an automotive designer. It was very disappointing - truly a cheap and nasty interior - not remotely premium-feeling at all. It wasn't so much the design of the interior as just how shoddy it looked and felt. Mind you, we also got caught in the LR pavilion for ages due to a downpour and found plenty of remarkably flimsy and cheapo plastic trim pieces on the exterior of the Defender to critique as well. I had the exact same opinion of the Junior at FOS. Opened the door, looked at the acres of plastic on display and promptly shut the door again, not wanting to be depressed any further by sitting in it. I’m honestly not an interior snob but when presented with plastics not out of place on a wheelie bin I do have to ask what manufacturers are thinking.
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Post by alf on Oct 8, 2024 9:13:20 GMT
This is a sad fact of modern life unfortunately. I read an article yesterday saying how much better the materials and controls were on a 2008 DSLR compared to expensive cameras now. Sadly that was MUCH more the case when film went to digital. Cars have done the same, we've gone from a mechanical spend from the OEM to a big spend on computers and screens within the vehicle. Then with electrification we've seen tens of billions (100 has been touted for some) spent on new EV platforms. The money is going on stuff which will never look and perform as well as an iPad, and the rest is being ignored. I'd love to know how much collectively was spent on the "safety" crap we all hate as well - cars need to auto brake, and auto steer, for some of this to work. Interior quality is a biggie for me, and its just another thing older cars do better.
This is also true of much of life now, across the things we own and use. The very rich can afford well designed and crafted things, in mass production there has been something of a rush to the bottom in terms of materials and build. Separates hfi is one example, the materials and build and styling were all top notch. Now everyone wants an Alexa, or a Sonos if they're feeing plush. The experience is nowhere near the same, and we won't be fondly using that Alexa in 40 years time.....
I wonder if we are a bunch of grumpy old men in the know, or if collectively more people will realise that a car with huge interaction and incredible-feeling controls, and visceral engine sounds, is a good thing. If so then the high values we see now on older cars like 997's will only rise, and the "also rans" of older cars will also go up in value.... Because we can't all have one, they're a very finite resource.
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Post by Tim on Oct 8, 2024 11:28:36 GMT
I've just bought a car where a lot of the interior is made from plastic that Airfix rejected as sub-standard in the 1980s The main contact areas are made from good materials though.
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Post by PetrolEd on Oct 8, 2024 12:20:49 GMT
I've just bought a car where a lot of the interior is made from plastic that Airfix rejected as sub-standard in the 1980s The main contact areas are made from good materials though. I am no interior snob but when the entire door panel is made from shiny molded plastic without any soft touch elements in a 40 grand car it just looks terrible, depressing even. How much can it cost to put some fake leather, a bit of stitching or faux suede to a bit of interior.
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