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Post by racingteatray on Feb 8, 2022 14:01:58 GMT
But the biggest issue of all is that the black box can automate the collection of speeding fines for even 1mph over the limit, regardless of circumstances and it would allow everyone to be tracked 24hrs a day. I am not a speeder per se but I also can't hold my hands up and say that I didn't exceed the limit as I passed the caravan that had been holding me up for the last 10 miles or on the countless occasions when I have accelerated on a motorway or dual carriageway to avoid a dangerous situation I saw developing. It is also the kind of technology that would kill off a massive amount of demand for the likes of Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin etc in the UK: some people will still want them to show their status but I can see smaller and less powerful engines and an emphasis on style and luxury instead. Well if they bring that in then the 911 will be going straight into the classifieds to be replaced with something like a Honda e. The cost of trackdays will go up ten fold as everyone clambers to use their car anywhere close to its limits. Well indeed. I went and had a test sit the Honda e and the Fiat 500e at the weekend. I was not particularly sold on the Fiat - not as cheery as our existing 500 and it has an even worse driving position - there is almost nowhere to put your left foot without it slipping under the brake pedal and my left knee was hard against the centre console. On a side note, I do not understand why each door needs two separate interior door handles unless it's because they worry about the reliability... No such issues with the Honda e - it looks great and the interior is spacious, comfortable and rather cool. I loved it. I'm only not entirely sold on the interior trim combination of grey flannel/tweed seats and "formica-look" wood on the dashboard - it's a bit severe and I could imagine my wife not liking it. Plus the salesman told me that the real-world achievable range in their own testing in the dealership was about 95 miles. 95!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2022 14:26:15 GMT
A question that will doubtless crop up again will be, "Why have performance car of any kind, at all"? I can also see classic, vintage and veteran cars becoming more popular.
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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 8, 2022 14:58:18 GMT
Well if they bring that in then the 911 will be going straight into the classifieds to be replaced with something like a Honda e. The cost of trackdays will go up ten fold as everyone clambers to use their car anywhere close to its limits. Plus the salesman told me that the real-world achievable range in their own testing in the dealership was about 95 miles. 95! Blimey, not sure I'd be quite so honest if I was selling them but I guess the earlier adopters have all been back into the garage moaning that their cars are broken.
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Post by Big Blue on Feb 8, 2022 15:02:58 GMT
Plus the salesman told me that the real-world achievable range in their own testing in the dealership was about 95 miles. 95! This must be dealership dependent. I can imagine the range on an electric car in London would be about half that in rural areas where you actually use the electric power to move and therefore get more re-gen. Eva is terrible on battery power where I live if you look at miles travelled: time is a better measure which is why batteries are measured in kWh.
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Post by Martin on Feb 8, 2022 15:25:34 GMT
I'm not surprised about a range of c100 miles if the WLTP is around 130, especially at this time of year, but on the plus side it won't take long to charge up a battery that small.
I just stuck it through the salary sacrifice quote out of interest and see that you can get it with brown (or black) nappa leather so no need to cloth trim. Not cheap at £40k in the top spec level with leather and a couple of other things, but fairly cheap through a SS scheme.
Edit, it's got a smaller battery than the new PHEV Range Rover. Only 32 Kwh usable, can't be many smaller, but as it's a city car, I can't see the point in carrying around more battery/weight than you'd need 99% of the time.
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 8, 2022 18:22:29 GMT
We don't have a salary sacrifice scheme and in any event, I'm not an employee any more.
Equally Mrs RT's employer doesn't have any form of company car scheme.
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 8, 2022 18:42:10 GMT
I thought it was well known that the Honda e was basically designed as a city car and therefore has a miserable range. What happens if you have a storm (or flooding) and a power cut of a few days remains to be seen.......
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Post by Martin on Feb 8, 2022 22:01:55 GMT
We don't have a salary sacrifice scheme and in any event, I'm not an employee any more. Equally Mrs RT's employer doesn't have any form of company car scheme. I’m aware of all of those things, the points I were making was leather is an option and it’s expensive to buy. Lindsay has the option of a company car or allowance and they now have a salary sacrifice scheme as well, which means there is another configurator for me to play with….
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Post by bryan on Feb 21, 2022 20:25:25 GMT
If the black box thing happens, I can always run about in the 911. No tech on that at all!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 19:31:39 GMT
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Post by johnc on Mar 8, 2022 8:42:50 GMT
This is what the MPs think about road pricing:
The government must overhaul motoring taxes as it phases out new diesel and petrol vehicles, according to MPs. MPs on the Transport Committee say the government must come up with new policy options by the end of the year. A ban on the sale of new diesel and petrol vehicles will be introduced by 2030, which means £35 billion will be lost in tax revenue. In a report entitled Road Pricing, the Committee favoured a road charging system based on technology which measures road use. Any scheme would include the drivers of electric vehicles, who would be required to pay for road usage. It would also cover vans and HGV vehicles, as well as overseas vehicle drivers. Huw Merriman MP, Chair of the Transport Committee, said:
'We need to talk about road pricing. Innovative technology could deliver a national road-pricing scheme which prices up a journey based on the amount of road, and type of vehicle, used. Just like our current motoring taxes but, by using price as a lever, we can offer better prices at less congested times and have technology compare these directly to public transport alternatives.
'By offering choice, we can deliver for the driver and for the environment. Road pricing should not cost motorists more, overall, or undermine progress on active travel. Work should begin without delay. The situation is urgent. New taxes, which rely on new technology, take years to introduce.
'A national scheme would avoid a confusing and potentially unfair and contradictory patchwork of local schemes but would be impossible to deliver if this patchwork becomes too vast. The countdown to net zero has begun. Net zero emissions should not mean zero tax revenue.'
Internet link: Parliament website
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 8, 2022 9:07:24 GMT
'By offering choice, we can deliver for the driver and for the environment. Road pricing should not cost motorists more, overall, or undermine progress on active travel. Work should begin without delay. The situation is urgent. New taxes, which rely on new technology, take years to introduce. Internet link: Parliament website Whenever a Government or council talks about "choice" I know I'll be dropping my trousers and bending over... I've never known any choice being implemented where I didn't pay more.
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Post by Big Blue on Mar 8, 2022 9:40:41 GMT
The problem for introducing any fundamental tax changes, of which road pricing is one, is that MPs are inherently keen on maintaining their income and lifestyle so anything which looks like a sure fire defeat at the next election is a bit of a tricky one. Imagine rural, conservative constituencies where there is one bus a day being told they’re now being charged by the mile when they’ve forgotten the Bisto and have to nip to the nearest convenience store on a Sunday, a 10 mile round trip.
The other issue with such systems is revenue collection and modelling. These technological solutions need to be paid for and maintained, so part of the road pricing is lost there. Then the initial model assumes pricing at peak hours at X price when suddenly everyone starts driving at cheaper times and the rates need to increase (like when fewer fines manifested when the C Charge was introduced in London). Collecting tax through the price of of liquid fuel is so simple that replacing it will only be an abject failure by comparison.
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Post by PG on Mar 8, 2022 14:18:13 GMT
... Collecting tax through the price of of liquid fuel is so simple that replacing it will only be an abject failure by comparison. And the other added beauty of its simplicity and scope is that even people with no MOT, tax or insurance, can't avoid paying it. Whilst road pricing appears simple in its conception, as said, the actual implementation and set up would be a huge undertaking that would be bound to be delayed / not function / drive behaviour in ways not envisaged or even desirable. The only two systems that could be made to work in time are either (a) leaving fuel duty as is and introducing a system to tax electricity used for charging vehicles (easy for charging stations, smart metering would do for other use), or (b) charge based on annual mileage as downloaded off your car at the MOT time. Payment could be in advance / arrears / monthly / annually by direct debit or charged to a card. The process must already be there as DVLA can cope with that for car reg tax. Plus all cars would need an annual visit to an MOT centre from new to do that of course. Or they cold just bung it on income tax!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 8, 2022 14:44:15 GMT
Definitely (b) for me - I'll get my mileage wound back before every MOT. My mate, who is getting the iX, has just been quoted £1900 to put his home charger in. He's in a new build but his distribution board is about as far way from the garage where he parks his car as possible. They are going to have to dig an 18" deep trench across his front garden, round the side garden, under a path, to a new DB in the garage.
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Post by ChrisM on Mar 8, 2022 17:51:51 GMT
What about foreign motorists who come here? At present they pay tax if they buy petrol or diesel.
Plus, don't forget that for electric cars, VAT is charged on the electricity used to recharge them, OK not to the same extortionate level as on petrol or diesel, but even so.... tax is collected
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 8, 2022 19:52:46 GMT
The easiest option would be to fit every electric vehicle with a coin slot. Put a pound coin in and you’d get 10 miles of motoring. Once a month a guy would come round with a key and empty the coin collection box for the Government. An additional bonus would be the extra jobs created.
I suppose the cash collectors would also drive electric vehicles and these would have a coin slot too. Obviously they wouldn’t be allowed a key to their own vehicle’s coin box so more jobs would be created by cash collectors emptying the coin boxes on the cars of the original coin collectors.
Sometimes I surprise myself with my genius.
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Post by Martin on Mar 8, 2022 20:26:18 GMT
The easiest option would be to fit every electric vehicle with a coin slot. Put a pound coin in and you’d get 10 miles of motoring. Once a month a guy would come round with a key and empty the coin collection box for the Government. An additional bonus would be the extra jobs created. I suppose the cash collectors would also drive electric vehicles and these would have a coin slot too. Obviously they wouldn’t be allowed a key to their own vehicle’s coin box so more jobs would be created by cash collectors emptying the coin boxes on the cars of the original coin collectors. Sometimes I surprise myself with my genius. I think you’re onto something, maybe with wired grid above the road to power them and save stopping to charge? Interesting, as I thought your background was more circus than fun fair….
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