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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 18, 2021 14:05:59 GMT
As my mate said; “If masks work how come my jeans don’t stop the smell of my farts?” Your mate didn't happen to have a brother who was once leader of the Labour Party by any chance? Did Jeremy Corbyn have a flatulence problem as well? Fascinating.
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Post by rodge on Dec 19, 2021 13:16:32 GMT
Had coffee with an old friend on Friday. He’s a cellular biologist and runs one of the main labs that does research into viruses over here. We were talking about Omicron and he said the scientific community is hoping that this is the final variant of it. They are basing this expectation on how it’s mutated through the variants so far and they believe this could be the last version of it. This one is way more contagious but has weaker symptoms, so is more like a common cold- the affect to the public at large is more people will get it because of this but the mortality rates will be the same overall.
Either way, I’d prefer to just get on with things now and not have to put up with anymore crap from the politicians.
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 19, 2021 13:40:17 GMT
^ We don't need to quarantine, and shouldn't self-isolate for something as mild as the common cold. Enough damage to society has been caused already
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Post by garry on Dec 19, 2021 18:01:50 GMT
^ We don't need to quarantine, and shouldn't self-isolate for something as mild as the common cold. Enough damage to society has been caused already So don’t get tested. The lurid headlines over the last few days about a surge in cases are mostly made up of an increase in testing. In October there was circa 800k tests per day, which has risen to 1.5 million daily tests. The positivity rate is the same (just under 5%). So in news that should surprise no one, if you test loads more people, you’ll find loads more cases. The more we comply, the longer this lasts.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 19, 2021 22:37:33 GMT
Yep: the UK level of testing and reporting is so stratospherically high compared to countries like France that UK residents look like super-spreaders when in fact the UK is probably the safest country in Europe because of the very high take up of the vaccine and boosters: Anglo saxons just want to get on with it and put it behind us; the rest of Europe fear being placed under central control. Again.
If it's of any consequence: I have had severely debilitating sciatica for three months. My GP sent me for an x-ray and upon receiving the results told me to go for physio. On Thursday I'm having a tour of the hospital in a Czech city being tested with a view any further intervention being made before my return to the UK after Christmas. That seems to be a more effective use of medical-directed money than testing and tracing people that have been vaccinated with three doses.
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Post by alf on Dec 20, 2021 11:29:07 GMT
There should be no more talk of restrictions or any more ridiculous rules - address the core issue of a lack of capacity and move on, otherwise we will forever be at the mercy of inadequate health care provision. This is the real issue though, isn't it? Massively increasing capacity to deal with the circa 1000 patients a day being admitted to hospital with COVID - without affecting other services - will be very, very, very expensive. And there is a good chance throwing money at the issue will not solve it. New Labour abandoned their fiscal sense mid way through their term and threw tens of billions more at the NHS, and studies show the improvement in service lagged massively behind the additional funding. The NHS already swallows a massive share of the total budget, and its usually protected in a way that can be devastating for smaller departments. Do we want to pay the taxes for another 50 or 100 billion a year to sort out the NHS - and social care implications - of just letting a pandemic run riot, yet wanting undiminished care? Do I want to pay another 5p on my income tax permanently for that, rather than make some proportionate (and if I'm honest not that horrific) changes to my life for a while? This isn't something that can be just scaled up as needed - it would be massively more spending permanently. It becomes a choice of big government vs small government, high taxation vs low taxation, and I for one am not comfortable with a focus on ever increased spending over some degree of personal responsibility.
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Post by garry on Dec 20, 2021 15:20:48 GMT
There should be no more talk of restrictions or any more ridiculous rules - address the core issue of a lack of capacity and move on, otherwise we will forever be at the mercy of inadequate health care provision. This is the real issue though, isn't it? Massively increasing capacity to deal with the circa 1000 patients a day being admitted to hospital with COVID - without affecting other services - will be very, very, very expensive. And there is a good chance throwing money at the issue will not solve it. New Labour abandoned their fiscal sense mid way through their term and threw tens of billions more at the NHS, and studies show the improvement in service lagged massively behind the additional funding. The NHS already swallows a massive share of the total budget, and its usually protected in a way that can be devastating for smaller departments. Do we want to pay the taxes for another 50 or 100 billion a year to sort out the NHS - and social care implications - of just letting a pandemic run riot, yet wanting undiminished care? Do I want to pay another 5p on my income tax permanently for that, rather than make some proportionate (and if I'm honest not that horrific) changes to my life for a while? This isn't something that can be just scaled up as needed - it would be massively more spending permanently. It becomes a choice of big government vs small government, high taxation vs low taxation, and I for one am not comfortable with a focus on ever increased spending over some degree of personal responsibility. I think this is a slippery slope. It's predicted on the 'protect our NHS' doctrine which is more fully described as "We the people will give up some of our liberties to stop the NHS being overwhelmed". On the surface this seems equitable - we're happy to trade very small liberties to stop spiralling NHS demands. But where does that end for you? What liberty is a step too far? If I said "Our NHS needs to be protected from overweight people so we should close down all takeaways" or "Our NHS deals with huge numbers of drink related issues so we should stop the sale of alcohol" you'd probably think I was nuts, but I'd say its just few extra steps down the path that you're already on. History is littered with examples of this slow drip effect where a religious like dogma drives a nation to worse and worse decisions. Step back two years and imagine being told that in the near future the government would be able to, at will, close parts of the economy down and restrict when you could leave the house. And they'd be able to do this with the support of the people as we all did our bit to 'protect our NHS'. Project forwards and who knows what new rules they'll come up with. In the end it's not about big or small government, it's about control They work for us, we don't work for them - you can't let them ever forget that.
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 20, 2021 15:37:30 GMT
Who said anything about throwing money at the NHS ? The NHS gets £150 billion a year (nearly 3 times what it got in 1996 when adjusted for inflation) - that's more than enough to find a few more ICU beds. There is something very, very wrong with the management and running of the NHS if £150 billion is not enough. Also consider that capacity doesn't need to be fixed - how come the army can spin up a field hospital in days to deal with soldiers who have been blown to pieces, but we can't set up and run facilities to temporarily house covid sufferers. In fact, didn't we do this in a matter of weeks ? - they had a catchy name (Night...something ). Parking that though - are you seriously suggesting we put this country through the mental and fiscal hell of lockdown again just because the left wing noise machines that have been gifted almost unlimited budgets can't deal with a small spike in capacity ? Let's get some perspective - if 1000 hospitalisations a day in a country of 70 million is enough to bring it too it's knees, then we need mass restructuring and sackings asap
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Post by Tim on Dec 20, 2021 15:57:39 GMT
We've had plenty of mass restructurings recently (some by the non-'left' since you brought up political sides) and how's that worked out? Oh right, the management consultants brought in to do it have created a load more management positions at, presumably, decent rates of pay thus diverting a lot of money away from medical stuff to admin stuff.
Awesome, eh?
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Omicron
Dec 20, 2021 16:58:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by Big Blue on Dec 20, 2021 16:58:41 GMT
The problem with the NHS is that it’s perceived as “free”. It’s a consequence of this perception that the only promoted alternative is the US “we’ll bankrupt you by the end of the week” model, which is itself a bit false because you get healthcare from your employer if you belong to the group reading this thread. But the European models of compulsory insurance, either employer or individual provided, are never used as a comparison because whilst the idea of compulsory insurance seems to be a terrible imposition, the fact those in the UK are obligated to pay for the NHS almost every time they spend or earn money on anything is a far worse imposition.
Doubly worse if you ever see how little is invested at low level : My GP surgery is in a well heeled neighbourhood, nestling in a park. Its general facilities would be recognised, and laughed at, by anyone that grew up in the Communist era which ended over 30 years ago.
Classic cars are worth saving to those that like particular models. The NHS falls into the same category. My main issue with the “save our NHS” chat is when people give examples of how the NHS has saved their life / sight / pregnancy etc. The inference is that any other health provider in any other country would have left you to die in the gutter like vermin. Which inference is a fucking load of shite.
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 20, 2021 17:08:51 GMT
W
When ?
And why would a previous half arsed attempt at restructuring stop you from holding the extremely well remunerated directors to account ?, why would it stop you from auditing spend (and waste) ? and why would it stop you from cutting out vast swathes of non jobs and individuals who make poor decisions ?
What do you suggest ? - piss and moan for a bit and then beg for another lockdown because it's all a bit too hard ?
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Post by Boxer6 on Dec 20, 2021 19:09:14 GMT
Who said anything about throwing money at the NHS ? The NHS gets £150 billion a year (nearly 3 times what it got in 1996 when adjusted for inflation) - that's more than enough to find a few more ICU beds. There is something very, very wrong with the management and running of the NHS if £150 billion is not enough. Also consider that capacity doesn't need to be fixed - how come the army can spin up a field hospital in days to deal with soldiers who have been blown to pieces, but we can't set up and run facilities to temporarily house covid sufferers. In fact, didn't we do this in a matter of weeks ? - they had a catchy name (Night...something ). Parking that though - are you seriously suggesting we put this country through the mental and fiscal hell of lockdown again just because the left wing noise machines that have been gifted almost unlimited budgets can't deal with a small spike in capacity ? Let's get some perspective - if 1000 hospitalisations a day in a country of 70 million is enough to bring it too it's knees, then we need mass restructuring and sackings asap I'm sure the capacity for physical beds can be achieved easily; it's staffing them that is, and will be, the problem.
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Post by Alex on Dec 20, 2021 19:32:41 GMT
That was essentially the problem with the Nightingale Hospitals. Knocking them up took just a couple of weeks but they had no staff! Hence they remained pretty much empty until they were quietly closed in April with the only beneficiaries being the vast events venues that charged the government a pretty penny for the use of the facilities.
I don't think Covid cases is what is going to overwhelme our hospitals, it is our mistreatment of foreign doctors and nurses, many of whom felt Brexit was one big 'fuck off' message allied to our inability to train British people in medical roles - not helped by charging them the full whack of university tuition fees for the privilege with no bursaries or free time for second jobs to supplement the free work they provide the NHS during their course.
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Post by Boxer6 on Dec 20, 2021 21:44:30 GMT
That was essentially the problem with the Nightingale Hospitals. Knocking them up took just a couple of weeks but they had no staff! Hence they remained pretty much empty until they were quietly closed in April with the only beneficiaries being the vast events venues that charged the government a pretty penny for the use of the facilities. I don't think Covid cases is what is going to overwhelme our hospitals, it is our mistreatment of foreign doctors and nurses, many of whom felt Brexit was one big 'fuck off' message allied to our inability to train British people in medical roles - not helped by charging them the full whack of university tuition fees for the privilege with no bursaries or free time for second jobs to supplement the free work they provide the NHS during their course. I believe there has been (limited) reintroduction of nursing bursaries in a number of colleges/universities recently, but far from enough to draw in the number of students needed. Add the fact that nursing students were appallingly treated during the first part of the pandemic when it was "all hands to the pumps *", and it amazes me young people still want to join the profession at all!
* It wasn't just students that were treated badly; many retired nurses returned to to assist, lured in part by promises of being fairly and properly paid, only to be shafted big time by HMRC and the Trusts who called them back by telling them the pay received was to be taxed at 'normal' rates. Shameful really, but not exactly surprising.
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Post by johnc on Dec 21, 2021 9:29:27 GMT
The problem with the NHS is that it’s perceived as “free”. We have lots of business guru's in the accountancy profession who promote ways of making your practice more successful. One of the most common phrases I hear is "Client's don't value anything you give them for free, so don't do it" I wonder if that is the way a lot of people view the NHS? Regarding the point about the European model of health insurance, is that a fixed premium regardless of age? In principle I don't have an issue with a financial contribution to the NHS but I would not want it to be like private medical insurance where the costs escalate at a ridiculous rate as you get older and just when you are perhaps least able to afford it with only a pension for income and no employer to contribute. UK employers may argue that they already pay with 13.8% employer's NI which will increase to 15.05% from April 2022 - it's not as if they get anything from it.
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Post by johnc on Dec 21, 2021 9:50:21 GMT
I believe there has been (limited) reintroduction of nursing bursaries in a number of colleges/universities recently, but far from enough to draw in the number of students needed. Add the fact that nursing students were appallingly treated during the first part of the pandemic when it was "all hands to the pumps *", and it amazes me young people still want to join the profession at all!
* It wasn't just students that were treated badly; many retired nurses returned to to assist, lured in part by promises of being fairly and properly paid, only to be shafted big time by HMRC and the Trusts who called them back by telling them the pay received was to be taxed at 'normal' rates. Shameful really, but not exactly surprising.
The current pay for vaccinators is also a joke. If you are a doctor or a dentist (or a retired one) you get paid somewhere around £60/hr but nurses, physios and others who are qualified to give injections get paid as little as £16/hr. There is obviously a hierarchy of pay but how can that be justified when they are all doing the same job? We know a few nurses, a physio and a chiropractor who won't do the vaccinations because they feel abused. If there had been an across the board £25/£30hr there might have been a much better response. We have two doctors (both aged between 55 and 60) who are retiring from the NHS because of the pension charge and the fact they can't contribute more to their pension without being shafted for tax. I don't think the last 2 years have helped their willingness to remain in the NHS but one of them already has a part time private position lined up.
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Post by Big Blue on Dec 21, 2021 10:04:52 GMT
Regarding the point about the European model of health insurance, is that a fixed premium regardless of age? In principle I don't have an issue with a financial contribution to the NHS but I would not want it to be like private medical insurance where the costs escalate at a ridiculous rate as you get older and just when you are perhaps least able to afford it with only a pension for income and no employer to contribute. UK employers may argue that they already pay with 13.8% employer's NI which will increase to 15.05% from April 2022 - it's not as if they get anything from it. Slovak model: kids pay less; flat rate for everyone regardless of age except self employed who pay more as they aren't getting an employer contribution. French: contributions based on income, so free when you get older. There is a three-way system in France but France is measured as having the best healthcare in the world so they're doing something correct. If I recall correctly my Ma has an additional insurance which pays for any extra over - this maintains the preservation of making wealthier people pay more. The Govt. negotiated fees with French dentists would make the shysters over here cry into their Nescafe, because that's all they could afford under them! German: Compulsory health insurance, including deduction from your unemployment benefit if you are in receipt of it. (Slovaks do this too). Employers MUST pay it and self employed also. I think it's flat rate and very closely regulated. That said Germany has long had the most restriction-free and consumer-oriented healthcare system in Europe. Patients are allowed to seek almost any type of care they wish whenever they want it. In a typically German funding model, the governmental health system in Germany kept a record reserve of more than €18 billion (in 2017) which made it one of the healthiest healthcare systems in the world. That's €18Bn "just in case". As to what do employers get from NI contributions to the NHS: healthy workers is the answer, which is why drains and potable water systems were developed and installed by the wealthy. It's also why trains exist: to get us peasant fuckers to work. I think the main differences are that European healthcare insurances are for healthcare. The NHS is ostensibly funded from NI contributions but that also pays for pensions and then some taxes also chip in and basically the Treasury is balancing a fuck-up of decades of policies on taxation which they take to include NI. A single health insurance would help allocate, control and understand funding and probably waste and provision but you'd need healthcare leaders (medical and management!) that didn't have the very Anglo-American minded of "I want as much as I can get for me as soon as possible." but as we have politicians with the same mindset we will never have the regulatory framework for that.
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Post by garry on Dec 21, 2021 10:27:46 GMT
The problem with the NHS is that it’s perceived as “free”. We have lots of business guru's in the accountancy profession who promote ways of making your practice more successful. One of the most common phrases I hear is "Client's don't value anything you give them for free, so don't do it"
I wonder if that is the way a lot of people view the NHS?Regarding the point about the European model of health insurance, is that a fixed premium regardless of age? In principle I don't have an issue with a financial contribution to the NHS but I would not want it to be like private medical insurance where the costs escalate at a ridiculous rate as you get older and just when you are perhaps least able to afford it with only a pension for income and no employer to contribute. UK employers may argue that they already pay with 13.8% employer's NI which will increase to 15.05% from April 2022 - it's not as if they get anything from it. I was thinking about this. I work on pricing strategies with some of my customers and it's well documented in the software sector that free product has incredibly low take up because it's perceived as having limited value.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 21, 2021 15:10:48 GMT
I was thinking about this. I work on pricing strategies with some of my customers and it's well documented in the software sector that free product has incredibly low take up because it's perceived as having limited value. Similarly, comedians hate doing free gigs; an audience that has paid to see you is far more invested in having a good time and appreciating your act.
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Omicron
Dec 21, 2021 15:20:41 GMT
via mobile
garry likes this
Post by Big Blue on Dec 21, 2021 15:20:41 GMT
Similarly, comedians hate doing free gigs; an audience that has paid to see you is far more invested in having a good time and appreciating your act. Perhaps we could stop paying politicians then we won’t care what bollocks they foist upon us or what extra-Parliamentary bollocks they get up to.
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Post by Tim on Dec 21, 2021 16:56:59 GMT
WWhen ? And why would a previous half arsed attempt at restructuring stop you from holding the extremely well remunerated directors to account ?, why would it stop you from auditing spend (and waste) ? and why would it stop you from cutting out vast swathes of non jobs and individuals who make poor decisions ? What do you suggest ? - piss and moan for a bit and then beg for another lockdown because it's all a bit too hard ? Jesus calm down and stop being a whiny prick. The Tories have had, what, 2 (?) restructuring attempts on the NHS. Are they doing any of the things you suggest? Who appointed the well remunerated directos, etc? I'm NOT pissing and moaning or begging for another lockdown. I've been quietly getting on with my life, following what I consider a reasonable and considerate (to others) path and am enjoying working from home for the majority of the time because I know I can be trusted to do my job. In fact I'm way more productive when I'm not in the office because, miraculously, all the people who ask me distracting, trivial and unnecessary questions have stopped doing so because they've managed to work things out for themselves (my IT colleague has made the same observation about some other colleagues). I reckon that's what most of the populace are doing but if you want to believe what the Daily Mail, etc tells you then carry on. Just stop being so aggressive to people you know nothing about.
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Omicron
Dec 21, 2021 22:42:05 GMT
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Post by Alex on Dec 21, 2021 22:42:05 GMT
I'm in the doghouse tonight for going to the Arsenal game. Wife's not happy about me mixing in big crowds so close to Xmas. She should have seen how empty the place was! Stands were barely half full apart from the away section where plenty of Mackems made the trip down to London
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Omicron
Dec 22, 2021 6:19:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by Big Blue on Dec 22, 2021 6:19:10 GMT
I'm in the doghouse tonight for going to the Arsenal game. Wife's not happy about me mixing in big crowds so close to Xmas. She should have seen how empty the place was! Stands were barely half full apart from the away section where plenty of Mackems made the trip down to London I didn’t go on the basis I’m currently at LHR T5 so my seat was empty. Anyway, football stands are outside.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 22, 2021 7:14:58 GMT
I'm in the doghouse tonight for going to the Arsenal game. Wife's not happy about me mixing in big crowds so close to Xmas. She should have seen how empty the place was! Stands were barely half full apart from the away section where plenty of Mackems made the trip down to London My sister has a friend she’s known since school and her son, Charlie, made his debut for Arsenal last night and scored the 5th goal. We were all really pleased for him.
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Omicron
Dec 22, 2021 9:21:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by Alex on Dec 22, 2021 9:21:39 GMT
I'm in the doghouse tonight for going to the Arsenal game. Wife's not happy about me mixing in big crowds so close to Xmas. She should have seen how empty the place was! Stands were barely half full apart from the away section where plenty of Mackems made the trip down to London My sister has a friend she’s known since school and her son, Charlie, made his debut for Arsenal last night and scored the 5th goal. We were all really pleased for him. It was a classic opportunistic poachers toe poke, which is something we've been missing at times this season. Brilliant way to make your debut and it was great to see the rest of the team celebrating with him. I've heard a lot of hype about him and he made a good first impression. Talk about living the dream!
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Post by chipbutty on Dec 22, 2021 11:04:07 GMT
A comment equally applicable to your initial response.
I don't agree with that and it cannot be continually used as an excuse.
- The armed forces have medical capabilities that can be used (or do they staff field hospitals with squaddies who have a bag of elastoplasts and bottles of TCP ?)
- There are thousands of recently retired doctors and nurses who could have been approached for temporary recall to service (with a correspondingly generous payment). I know there was an attempt to do this, but it's also been reported that retired doctors and nurses have been proactively offering their services only for their offers to be ignored.
- In the 20 or so months since this kicked off, a fast track training scheme for new nursing staff could have been started and already have produced basic levels of medical assistants with the best and brightest being well on their way to being qualified.
- Exactly how many more nurses do you need to monitor Covid patients in a dedicated ICU facility - there is no way it's 1 for 1 and doesn't the latest technology allow mass monitoring and targeted supported as required ?
Whatever problems the health service had before Covid, the opportunity to go someway to correcting has been missed and we end up with worse provision coupled with eye watering amounts of country debt and a massive economic shock is likely the next stop on this roller coaster of shite (unless of course it turns out that on a global basis, it is possible to conjure up $ 6 trillion from nowhere and it have zero downstream impact).
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Omicron
Dec 22, 2021 12:47:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by Big Blue on Dec 22, 2021 12:47:33 GMT
Technology to monitor multiple patients from a centralised location? The NHS faithful would have you stringed up as this is akin to promoting driverless trains.
I agree with much of Chip’s point (without getting involved in any argument about tone, which is not possible to detect in writing): the amount of money thrown at the problem in almost 2 years means we should have a housing estate full of medical staff with one year of training under their belts ready to staff the NHS for the next generation.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 22, 2021 13:01:51 GMT
My sister has a friend she’s known since school and her son, Charlie, made his debut for Arsenal last night and scored the 5th goal. We were all really pleased for him. It was a classic opportunistic poachers toe poke, which is something we've been missing at times this season. Brilliant way to make your debut and it was great to see the rest of the team celebrating with him. I've heard a lot of hype about him and he made a good first impression. Talk about living the dream! Yes, with his father’s Spanish heritage there are already a number of clubs from Spain circling.
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Post by Boxer6 on Dec 22, 2021 21:12:56 GMT
I don't agree with that and it cannot be continually used as an excuse. - The armed forces have medical capabilities that can be used (or do they staff field hospitals with squaddies who have a bag of elastoplasts and bottles of TCP ?) - There are thousands of recently retired doctors and nurses who could have been approached for temporary recall to service (with a correspondingly generous payment). I know there was an attempt to do this, but it's also been reported that retired doctors and nurses have been proactively offering their services only for their offers to be ignored. - In the 20 or so months since this kicked off, a fast track training scheme for new nursing staff could have been started and already have produced basic levels of medical assistants with the best and brightest being well on their way to being qualified. - Exactly how many more nurses do you need to monitor Covid patients in a dedicated ICU facility - there is no way it's 1 for 1 and doesn't the latest technology allow mass monitoring and targeted supported as required ? Whatever problems the health service had before Covid, the opportunity to go someway to correcting has been missed and we end up with worse provision coupled with eye watering amounts of country debt and a massive economic shock is likely the next stop on this roller coaster of shite (unless of course it turns out that on a global basis, it is possible to conjure up $ 6 trillion from nowhere and it have zero downstream impact). Sadly, whether you agree with it or not, it is the case. ICU wards are typically staffed at a ratio of 1 Critical Care (trained) Nurse per patient for Tier 1 patients (the very most seriously ill) or 1 CCN per 2 patients for less seriously ill. The latter is the recently newly recommended ratio for Covid patients who require to be in ICU.
Presuming you know that the "I" in ICU stands for intensive, then think like it; that doesn't mean just any nurse can work there. This means that many trained armed service staff just aren't equipped to deal with the needs of ICU patients, and particularly those with Covid who pose thier own unique problems. Plus the number invovled would soon strip those services of their top staff, and they powers that be won't stand for that for very long.
Leading on from the above, while it's possible that a fast track training scheme for nurses "could have been started ...". realistically, no it couldn't have, for the reasons given above. CC nurses have obtained their degree and gained ward experience before they go on to complete the added training. Even if the rules for training were grossly relaxed, the level of knowledge required would be very difficult to teach, assess and rate before letting them loose on patients - maybe your loved one. Would you really want that, because I wouldn't.
As for the recently (or long ago!) retired staff who offered their services and were ignored/rebuffed - I haven't got an answer for that, and it wasn't the case in all trusts anyway. Again, there could well have been training issues, or insurance problems; as practicing health workers we have to be insured, and if the insurers say no, or the premiums are too high, it makes the case for bringing these volunteers on board that much harder to sell.
As for the millions/billions "poured into the NHS" - while it may sound a bit of a gripe rather than an answer to the point, what about the hundreds of millions that never got anywhere near the NHS and instead found it's way into certain peoples' pockets?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 22, 2021 21:25:20 GMT
My next door neighbour retired from nursing last year then went back to do the vaccinations. Despite only being retired a matter of months, and volunteering to work in a neighbouring trust, the bureaucracy involved meant it was months before she was jabbing. Similarly, my sister in law, a recently retired midwife went back to work on the Covid wards early last year and was similarly frustrated by the lack of urgency from the Trust to get her back on board.
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