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Post by Roadrunner on Nov 28, 2021 15:30:27 GMT
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Post by LandieMark on Nov 28, 2021 15:40:20 GMT
Interesting. More clearly needs to be done on official routes.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 28, 2021 19:33:48 GMT
Just to address some of the other comments:
The UN is utterly toothless as the voting structure would prevent engagement with certain countries to try to make them less inhospitable because the leaders in power in those countries are not "bad" in all voters' eyes.
To get a visa means that you're not really a desperate asylum seeker, rather an economic migrant. It's not a short or simple process in anyone's language.
This comes back to the very modern concept of "relative conditions" (don't start me on relative poverty.....). I'd guess that disused army barracks are better habitations than tent city / corrugated tin hut / under the stars so in relative terms they're like palaces.
Opportunity is not really defined uniformly as some are indeed seeking shelter from harm and some are merely looking to earn money. The queue for either could be defined from the registration of applications, the hierarchy by known dangers and the requirements for the skill set being offered. Indeed the "queue" is defined exactly along those lines. If you're a desperate asylum seeker and can clearly prove you've come from a place of harm then you move up the "queue" faster than someone that makes various claims about their origin, identity and reasons for requiring asylum or relocation.
I don't think this current government has any problem with the stance it is taking at all as it can be as hard line as it wants - it was voted in by people that want to stop tax-paying people that share the underlying ethics of the nation in general coming here so allowing a few illegal immigrants to drown in La Manche is a vote winner.
The idea of stemming the flow further back in the process is pretty dodgy ground. Telling the leaders of a nation that you want to control the exodus from their country and are willing to take a number of their population that wish to leave because they want to work in our country instead of their home nation was tried by the UK, France , Belgium, Portugal, Germany, Holland and Spain in the colonial era. As I said earlier: that is the largest problem as there are millions of people in far flung lands that have family connections in Northern Europe and feel justified in making a perilous journey when they no doubt see their relatives, however many times removed, living in "relative" (that word again) luxury despite being utter peasant stock (as most of us are, self included).
The indigenous population of peasants in the European nations are mainly aggrieved because their ancestors and recent close relatives lived like gypsies and took the long journey to society as it is today so cannot understand why swathes of other nationals should merely arrive in Europe and go from what was European-peasant-life two centuries ago to Europe today in one fell swoop. That's the reason why genuine asylums seekers need to be differentiated from economic migrants and when you see majority under-30 male groups you need look no further why there is apathy for their plight despite the media focus on deaths being of the minority children and women.
Our legal systems and sensibilities are too sanitised to accept machine gunning of arrivals and our employers are too keen to pay the cheapest price for the commodity that is "more humans" so there will never be an end. A future version of a COVID-like pandemic will probably thin numbers out a bit more but let's hope we and our loved ones are long gone by then.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 29, 2021 9:40:42 GMT
I don't think this current government has any problem with the stance it is taking at all as it can be as hard line as it wants - it was voted in by people that want to stop tax-paying people that share the underlying ethics of the nation in general coming here so allowing a few illegal immigrants to drown in La Manche is a vote winner. Ouch, so if you voted to leave you also are happy with seeing bodies washed up on shore. Harsh indeed but you may well have a point with some voters.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 29, 2021 9:45:57 GMT
Not necessarily “pro-“ seeing the dead washed up on the shore to the extent of wishing for regular repeat events but a lot will be nonplussed by the event. Point taken that this kind of issue probably wasn’t one of the messages on a bus but if it had been I think many would have applauded it.
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Post by Big Blue on Nov 30, 2021 21:12:32 GMT
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Post by PetrolEd on Dec 1, 2021 9:37:53 GMT
Nut jobs obviously, its where reading too much of the Daily express get you.
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