2021 F1 challenge discussion thread: R14: Italy

Note that early in the race Hamilton did back down, going wide to avoid taking out both of them and compromising his track position as a result of Max not allowing any room. Lewis left room on the outside of the first turn of the first chicane and Max used it but Max had no advantage at all into the second part and caused an accident when he could have either backed off or taken the escape road. My wife asked me if I had suddenly become a Lewis fan boy but I advised her it was just that I feel Verstappen is a jumped up fucker that needs all the lessons that can be handed out to him.

I got excited when LeClerc led at Monza in a Ferrari but as I noted at the start of the season the McLaren cars would have a pretty good season with the Merc Engine and a season of engineering behind them. So the most local team to me did quite well.

I think for me the biggest disappointment (but not surprise) was seeing Max walk away without even a glance in Lewis's direction to check he was OK which, given he rode over the top of him, he could easily not have been.

This is Max's driving style. He doesn't compromise and tbh I don't think he ever will. He prefers the Schumacher way of bullying his way to the F1 title and sod the consequences for anyone else. I'm sure many will say that all the great drivers only become great through their uncompromising rule of the race but when it's as dangerous as that it's no longer something we should be celebrating.

Did you not see Lewis giving it full beans trying to extract his car from the wreckage whilst Max was trying to get out. Even his engineer told him to switch it off before he blew the engine.

I don’t think the sprint races solve anything. F1 deluded itself thinking that changing the format would improve the racing. If the cars don’t change, the racing won’t change. It’s that simple. It’s a very F1 solution to something; change everything – apart from the issue causing the problem. Especially because there aren’t extra engines available for these sprint races, or extra budget allowed in case of accident damage so it’s not like the drivers go flat-out anyway for the limited number of laps.

If the 2022 car delivers something where the drivers can follow, nobody will be pining for a sprint race.

As for the collision, it was a collision, it’s over now and no penalty is going remedy that situation. There was probably more blame on Verstappen, its such a tight chicane and Hamilton was taking the racing line, Verstappen was always going to be directed towards the sausage kerbs. For someone fighting for a title, it was Verstappen’s cue to back out, rather than drive towards the invertible collision coming. Verstappen is unbelievably good, one of the most talented that has driven in F1. But he rarely thinks big picture, every position must be gained or defended at almost any cost. He is still very young, but undeniably quite experienced now. It was more like an F3-move, where some youngster refuses to yield and ends up crashing.

In every single other race at Monza this weekend, that pursuing driver at the Rettiflo or Roggia chicanes either backed off, or took a trip across the kerbs. Except Verstappen on lap 26, and these guys in F2 or the Porsche’s are a lot less experienced than Verstappen.

I think Schumacher didn’t drive like Verstappen all the time. He had respect for drivers like Hakkinen, and if they were alongside, he wouldn’t enter a corner like nobody was there. Same with Alonso, Schumacher wouldn’t try silly outside moves that would result in collision. I’m not saying Schumacher was an angel, but he had the foresight to realise when to back out when things just were not going to work. That is decent race craft; decent race craft isn’t overtaking or defending at any cost.

In my view, what irks Verstappen about Hamilton is the latter is the first driver he has raced that refuses to back down. Other drivers almost race with a trigger than if Verstappen arrives on the scene, he needs to be given a wide berth. The intimidation of Verstappen is part of his success, except against Hamilton. There is also something else, how hard it is to overtake even without DRS. Both drivers know if they get a chance to overtake, it could be their only shot. That is partly why you get these do-or-die moves. I sincerely hope the 2022 car allows the drivers to race, not just at the start or coming out of the pits. I honestly think drivers wouldn't be so desperate in wheel-to-wheel combat. 

More broadly, I have never liked the current Rettiflo or Roggia chicanes since they were introduced in 2000. A marshal died at the Roggia in 2000 after a pile up, and other incidents have happened that have been near-misses. The acceleration and then deceleration with 20 odd-cars is just asking for trouble, especially considering how tight the Rettiflo is. If someone for whatever loses their braking into the Rettiflo, it causes a huge shunt. Curva Grande might have been made safer because the entry is now slower, but the Rettiflo is now ridiculously fiddly and continually creates accidents. All throughout the weekend cars have been crashing and bouncing in the air in F2 and the Porsche Supercup. If you ask people to race from high speed into impossibly tight chicanes, its what you get. 

To quote the great Maximus Decimus Meridius, Are you not Entertained. 


It was an epic GP and the layout meant people tripped over each other and that creates the entertainment. I'm sure if you don't like the chicanes we can go back to the proper layout but that really was a blood bath. See the great Grand Prix film as to what can happen.

The point that everyone seems to miss is yes Verstappen could have pulled out of the move at any point but it was his only chance to get in front of Hamilton. It was an all or nothing move and if they touched then its points equal. I'm sure if you said to Max on Friday he would be leaving Monza with a bigger points advantage over his rival, he'd have taken it all day long. For him it was the right move. Hamilton could have given him space and would have probably slipped past under acceleration through Curva Grande on medium tyres. What did Toto call it? A tactical foul? He's probably correct. 

In the Analysis it seemed that the old drivers like Hill and Herbert thought it all Max's fault but the recent racers were backing Max due to the rule changes. 

Hamiltons decided that he's not going to let Max past at any cost and vica versa so we are where we are and expect more of the same as the season progresses. If they keep knocking each other off we'll have Bottas as the champion by seasons end. Maybe I need to put some money down on that.