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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 16, 2021 12:11:31 GMT
So, our entire office got "pinged" by the NHS Test and Trace app today, including myself, which told us all to isolate for 9 days.
Needless to say Company Policy is now to ignore the app and only isolate if contacted by phone or text.
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Post by Martin on Jul 16, 2021 12:15:06 GMT
So, our entire office got "pinged" by the NHS Test and Trace app today, including myself, which told us all to isolate for 9 days. Needless to say Company Policy is now to ignore the app and only isolate if contacted by phone or text. Why have you got it switched on?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 16, 2021 12:35:08 GMT
So, our entire office got "pinged" by the NHS Test and Trace app today, including myself, which told us all to isolate for 9 days. Needless to say Company Policy is now to ignore the app and only isolate if contacted by phone or text. Why have you got it switched on? I'd forgotten all about it.
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Post by Martin on Jul 16, 2021 13:12:17 GMT
Why have you got it switched on? I'd forgotten all about it. I assume it’s off now!
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Post by garry on Jul 19, 2021 8:34:35 GMT
Welcome to freedom day😂😂. Quite amusing to see Boris and co having to isolate today. Although I suspect the impact of being pinged for him is a little different to someone on a zero hours contract, or a business that has to close because all the staff are isolating, or trying to manage work when all the kids have been sent home from school.
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 19, 2021 8:40:33 GMT
From what I can make out the main benefit of “freedom day” is being able to go to a nightclub. Fabulous: the world is saved by a DJ and a cocktail shaking buffoon.
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 19, 2021 8:59:45 GMT
Yes the only difference I see is the possibility of a beer crawl rather then restricted to one place. Not bad but hardly life changing.
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 19, 2021 9:52:20 GMT
Well I noticed a difference. Last week everyone on the tube was wearing masks. Today a noticeable number of people weren't even though it is actually mandatory on the tube.
Inch. Mile.
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Post by Blarno on Jul 19, 2021 11:16:08 GMT
I didn't even realise this morning when I went in to Morrisons to get some yoghurt for breakfast, automatically stuck my muzzle on. Quite a few others had them on as well.
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Post by Tim on Jul 19, 2021 11:21:45 GMT
It'll be interesting to see what happens next.
I was looking at the findings from some other countries that had fully removed restrictions and the results are mixed, to say the least.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 19, 2021 11:34:26 GMT
Well I noticed a difference. Last week everyone on the tube was wearing masks. Today a noticeable number of people weren't even though it is actually mandatory on the tube. Inch. Mile. I'm extremely dubious of the efficacy of anything short of a properly fitted N95 mask. I can just about get on board with one of the blue, three ply surgical masks, again properly fitted but as to the cloth snoods, cloth branded masks, face shields - all the ones produced by a friend's mum, little cottage industry things etc, people are wasting their time. In fact I would argue that the cloth ones you see people using are actually worse than nothing as they're not washed after every use, allowing the virus to grow and concentrate before being blown through the fabric onto anyone nearby.
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 19, 2021 12:35:49 GMT
Oh I agree. I use proper ones which are close-fitting. They have the advantage of being comfortable and easier to breathe through.
Some of the cloth ones are virtually impossible to breathe through properly.
But I veer towards wearing any mask, especially somewhere where it is mandatory, being better than not wearing one at all. It gives me more faith than the person in question is generally responsible about taking a minimum of common sense precautions.
I'd never glare at anyone for not wearing one, not least because they may have a medical reason for not doing so. But that's not the same as not noticing.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 19, 2021 12:47:38 GMT
We still have some people using the face shields and when you go to talk to them they lift the mask so they can talk to you!
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Post by chipbutty on Jul 19, 2021 12:54:30 GMT
Unclear as to what spec N95 masks are - but man from Sage has the following to say:
Cloth face masks are 'comfort blankets' that do little to curb Covid spread, Sage adviser warns.
Dr Axon said that medics were "unable to comprehend" the miniscule elements at play, adding: "A Covid viral particle is around 100 nanometres, material gaps in blue surgical masks are up to 1,000 times that size, cloth mask gaps can be 500,000 times the size."
Dr Axon, whose report on ventilation in supermarkets was used by both Nervtag and Sage to aid decisions, says that medics "cannot have it both ways" over asymptomatic spread. He added: "Not everyone carrying Covid is coughing, but they are still breathing, those aerosols escape masks and will render the mask ineffective."
"The public were demanding something must be done, they got masks, it is just a comfort blanket," Dr Axon noted. "But now it is entrenched, and we are entrenching bad behaviour.
"All around the world you can look at mask mandates and superimpose on infection rates, you cannot see that mask mandates made any effect whatsoever.
"The best thing you can say about any mask is that any positive effect they do have is too small to be measured."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 13:43:18 GMT
Still not informed on the skinny but I am going to continue wearing a mask in enclosed spaces. Fully expecting some of the more militant to cry about it though.
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Post by garry on Jul 20, 2021 10:32:36 GMT
Well I noticed a difference. Last week everyone on the tube was wearing masks. Today a noticeable number of people weren't even though it is actually mandatory on the tube. Inch. Mile. He says on day four hundred and something of "three weeks to flatten the curve"
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Post by PetrolEd on Jul 20, 2021 10:42:17 GMT
Went to Sainsburys earlier and about 75% of the shoppers and staff were in masks still which surprised me, though they were typically an older section of the community. I expect that to change when the office workers are in for lunch
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Post by Alex on Jul 20, 2021 13:26:24 GMT
Went to Sainsburys earlier and about 75% of the shoppers and staff were in masks still which surprised me, though they were typically an older section of the community. I expect that to change when the office workers are in for lunch Popped into the little Tesco on Curzon Street in London at lunchtime and it was probably near 75/25 the other way. Likewise on the train to Victoria this morning although it was really quiet so not too much of a concern. I was on a table on my own so I took mine off for a while because it was so stuffy. Not going to feel guilty about that really though. I'm double jabbed and my lateral flow test I took before breakfast was negative. Had it been busier and someone wished to sit the other side of the table I'd have put it back on. I think that's common courtesy and a sensible approach. I appreciate that's not going to make me popular but with how hot it was and how few people were anywhere near me, I felt the risk was low enough for it to make no difference if I worn my mask or not.
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 20, 2021 14:18:41 GMT
Wearing masks is horrible when it's hot - I expect that has a bearing on matters.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 20, 2021 16:20:41 GMT
I was quite pro masks but then, as someone earlier pointed out, wearing a pair of jeans doesn't stop the smell of a fart.. and I realised they are the comfort blanket chipbutty says.
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Post by Alex on Jul 20, 2021 16:38:50 GMT
In contrast I've just been on a packed train from Victoria to Croydon and I did wear my mask because I was in close proximity to lots of other people who by and large were also wearing a mask. I'm now on the platform at Croydon waiting for my next train and I've taken it off. There's a slight breeze and the platform is pretty much out in the open.
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Post by garry on Jul 20, 2021 17:13:00 GMT
I’ve just been to Aldi and I’m happy to report mask wearing down below 20%.
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 20, 2021 17:45:27 GMT
I’ve just been to Aldi and I’m happy to report mask wearing down below 20%. Just out of curiosity, what would need to now happen for you to think that we were making a collective mistake? On the scale between normality and 28 Days Later?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 9:07:47 GMT
Well it's official. 19th July in England marks the end of nearly all Covid regulations apart from having to self isolate if tested positive (if I read the press correctly). Vaccination has clearly broken the link between infection, hospitalisation and deaths. I personally do feel able to exercise the personal responsibility that we're being asked to show. As said in the other thread, I won't be going about slobbering over people, but it will be good to be able to go out for a meal and not have to take a mask and others "luxuries". I may still choose to wear one at times. I'm not sure yet. The usual suspects are already saying this is all going to be a disaster. Keir wants us all to stay as we are until we're all double vaccinated (and then he'll no doubt think of some other reason?). SAGE are going to have a nervous breakdown. The train drivers union are up in arms. Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 9:09:31 GMT
Hey. What the nonsense you have written.
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 21, 2021 9:18:59 GMT
Hey. What the nonsense you have written. A bit like your grammar.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 21, 2021 10:13:09 GMT
Hey. What the nonsense you have written. Hello, Yoda's in.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 10:23:46 GMT
That high up the food chain, I thought da cummins (and goin's) was around and I don't mean the diesel.
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Post by chipbutty on Jul 21, 2021 10:42:07 GMT
So my questions to anyone who disagrees with the relaxing of the restrictions in any way:
- What reasons do you have in order to consider that we could be making a mistake ?
- By extension, what conditions would you want to be met in order to permit a removal of all restrictions ?.
Covid hospitalises and kills the elderly and the infirm in the main – yet every single adult in the UK has now been offered the vaccine and the UK Gov stats show 88% have taken the first jab and 69% have taken both. In essence, we have doubled down and then some as the risk areas are the over 70s and any adult with a co-morbidity (i.e – a small amount of the total number of UK adults).
So – if you ignore everything else and focus on this point, what else can you reasonably expect to do before releasing restrictions ?
- Do you expect Covid to be eradicated ?
- Do you expect to keep the restrictions as belt and braces until such times as Covid has been eradicated ?
- Do you condone mandatory vaccinations even though all of those at any type of risk have been offered a vaccination ?
- Do you condone the removal of a person’s fundamental liberty because they cannot prove they have been vaccinated ?
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Post by garry on Jul 21, 2021 10:46:08 GMT
I’ve just been to Aldi and I’m happy to report mask wearing down below 20%. Just out of curiosity, what would need to now happen for you to think that we were making a collective mistake? On the scale between normality and 28 Days Later? It's a good question. And quite difficult to answer. My supposition is that the measures (lockdown, masks, etc) make a tiny difference. I base this on the fact that many places across the world can't or won't have measures in place and there is no evidence of the death spiral that Sage talk of (This is a massive sticking point for me. Models means nothing when real data is available. Real data says the death spiral is bogus). Additionally it's impossible to correlate measures to outcomes. Data is available from most regions and you can see the 'waves' of covid but when you overlay the introduction of measures onto those graphs there isn't a link. (The UK has mostly introduced measures as a covid wave has been in decline and so measures look causal, but are after-the-fact). So I think removing the measures will have the tiniest of impact in terms of deaths and hospitalisation. What happens over the next few months would happen anyway, with the caveat that people will, without any legislation, modify their behaviour in small but impactful ways (hand washing, etc). I will accept I'm wrong on this if the UK (perhaps I should say England) finds itself as an outlier in terms of deaths and hospitalisations. This cannot be a a simple snapshot. The nature of Covid 'waves' means you can make any case you want by picking data from a specific date. I guess you could argue that I should err on the side of caution, accept measures etc, but I think this is where our viewpoints diverge because our lived experience differs greatly. The measures are easy for me to live with( as I suspect they are for you), but they are incredibly damaging for my kids. They are missing huge amounts of education, but the social impact is my biggest concern. My daughter has spent her first year in sixth form, mostly learning via a screen from her bedroom and has not made a single new friend. Put yourself back to that time of your life and consider how weird it is to not be out there and expanding your social network, building your social skills, etc. Do you think there will be no long term impact on her? I've got friends dealing with life threatening mental health problems with their child - it can happen when a 12 year old finds out for the fourth time in year that they aren't allowed to go out of the front door for ten days and they have no idea how long they'll be free for. Do you think there will be no long term impact on him? And we're sacrificing our kids for what exactly? So that the very old and very infirm can have an extra few months in a care home? Remember, the average age of a Covid victim is greater than average life expectancy. So i see those masks as an outward symbol of the Hell we're putting the younger generation through. As such, I refuse to comply and I'm happy when I see others refusing because the only way I see this ending now is through non-compliance.
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